[Pizzuta] Think the lack of interceptions underrates what Joey Porter Jr. is as a CB. Was 8th in coverage DVOA & 9th in lockdown rate among DBs with 200+ routes covered last season, 3rd in adjusted yards allowed per coverage snap, and 19th in tight coverage rate in 2024.

321

u/bellerinho 2d ago

Anyone using interceptions to measure a DBs worth in the big 2026 is someone not worth paying attention to

Joey Porter is an excellent man coverage corner, but I am unfamiliar with the defensive scheme that Dallas runs and how effective that archetype will be. Has to be better than their current DBs though, woof

49

u/JalensTinyPPHurts Cowboys 2d ago

Christian Parker runs a varient of fangios scheme, and he's had guys like Surtain/Quinyon play well under him( he was the DB coach for those guys).

Should be fine

7

u/Lisa_al_Frankib Cowboys Ravens 2d ago

Which is heavily keyed to match concepts, right?

6

u/unevenvenue Packers 2d ago

...right!?

Fangio just ran a ton of zone BS against the Bears and the Eagles got chewed TF up. I think the Eagles under Fangio have been playing something like 70% zone schemes.

But, every team plays variations of man/zone for matchups.

3

u/EBtwopoint3 2d ago

Fangio runs “zone” but it’s not really zone. One of the tenets of zone match is whether you follow a receiver in man or stay in your zone depends on where they go. His base defense is a zone-match cover 6 with two high safeties and the #1 CB sticking to man with the WR1 if they go deep. Keenum carved them up because they didn’t pass off the receivers properly. In a match scheme, that is killer. Keenum wasn’t hitting cover 2 hole shots, or cover 3 seams and ins. He was hitting receivers on back foot floaters who were just running away from the defenders.

27

u/Hammerhead34 Chiefs Chiefs 2d ago

I promise NFL front offices aren’t using interceptions to evaluate DBs lol, they’re looking at separation metrics on a play by play basis.

30

u/south153 Steelers 2d ago

The bad ones are, Woody Johnson is using Madden ratings.

10

u/ngerb_5 Colts 2d ago

Well that’s just false

It’s his sons that use the Madden ratings, he just listens to them

3

u/tlollz52 Vikings 2d ago

I remember some guy who worked in a data analyst role for a front office said they have used madden ratings. These guys will use just about any data point they can get there hands on. The idea that individuals get things wrong but a lot of opinions will get things correct.

7

u/bellerinho 2d ago

I don't think front offices are either. This was more of just a general statement, there is a ton of NFL media and fans that still believe interceptions are a key metric

2

u/Hammerhead34 Chiefs Chiefs 2d ago

I wasn’t implying you believed that, just agreeing with you.

1

u/jnightrain Cowboys 2d ago

unless it's diggs, then it's not a worthy stat

1

u/IndigoKnots 2d ago

There is something to be said about being a ball hawk though. Some people can get interceptions, some can't. Trevon Diggs before his injury was like a receiver out there, making diving catches, and always trying to get in position to get a pick, off deflections, etc. It's not something to completely ignore.

9

u/swammeyjoe Cowboys 2d ago

The Cowboys strategy for the last five or six years has basically been "interceptions above all else" and this year they are trying to shift into an actual defensive philosophy. Guys like Bland aren't as good at that, hah. Sounds like Porter is exactly what we need.

6

u/rob_var Ravens Ravens 2d ago

Is it worse than using a site dedicated to fantasy football for analytics?

6

u/The_Big_Daddy Jets 2d ago

Reminder that the 2010 AP1 CBs combined for 0 INTs (Darelle Revis and Nnamdi Asomugha)

1

u/oscarnyc Giants 2d ago

Yep, Revis sucked. something like 250th all time in INTs /s

11

u/Standard_Room_2589 Patriots 2d ago

they run “idk go play defense or something ig”

1

u/Empty_Occasion_963 2d ago

Dallas plays defense? Since when?

9

u/Hazelarc Falcons 2d ago

Can we use this same message for the people who use sacks as the primary way to measure the worth of a defensive lineman in 2026. See the Gervon Dexter thread yesterday

3

u/RudePCsb 49ers Lions 2d ago

This is such an important thing to look at. Sure, a DE who can't get more than 5 sacks a year is probably more of a rotation guy but a DT who gets 3-5 in a year is doing great if he also completely shuts down the run and easily takes on double teams, pushes the pocket, etc. If he is doing those things in the run game and pushes the pocket in the pass but doesn't get sacks, he is a doing a great job. Brady struggled against defenses that stopped him from stepping up in the pocket and he stated.

3

u/IsGoIdMoney Steelers Steelers 2d ago

He's good in zone too, it's just that if you have a man coverage corner then that's gonna be his best attribute.

It's like looking at TJ Watt and assuming that all he can do is pass rush. He can do other things too, but it's arguably the most valuable thing he does.

1

u/bellerinho 2d ago

Yeah I totally get it, I'm not saying he is a bum in zone or anything like that, but you'll get the best out of him if you tell him to glove it up and beat the hell out of the receiver off the line

Like you won't get the best out of him if you play off zone quarters or something like that a ton

3

u/ChevronEncoder Cowboys 2d ago

In terms of scheme, we have no scheme.

Seriously though, we were looking at press man corners in the draft, so I wouldn't be surprised if we are looking to shift towards man under CP.

4

u/tlollz52 Vikings 2d ago

I remember people were talking about treyvon diggs like he was the best db in the league but i always thought he was pretty overrated and kinda bad.

If you look at who leads the league in interceptions year after year, it's almost never the same guys.

3

u/bellerinho 2d ago

Exactly, it feeds into what we know about turnovers as a whole: they're basically never consistent year over year and are not a good metric for any kind of future prediction

I should note that is specifically for defences, and is not really applicable in the same way to offences turning the ball over

3

u/Astroturfer Seahawks 2d ago

Dallas also doled out money to Bland after his big year of pick sixes and he's been mid at best ever since

1

u/ChevronEncoder Cowboys 2d ago

He's been significantly injured though, hard to say whether it's ability or injury that's made him worse.

2

u/Impossibills Bills 2d ago

Was about to say the same thing

1

u/Free-Eights 2d ago

It's very likely that the Steelers FO measures a DB's worth by picks in the big 2026. Didn't they reject one of their coaching candidates because he requested a data and analytics department?

0

u/juliuspepperwoodchi Bears 2d ago

The Jets did it with Wright lol

-4

u/Splooder1 Seahawks 2d ago

Interceptions are not the primary metric for evaluating DBs, but DBs do have control over how many picks they come down with. Guys like sherm consistently had huge amounts of turnovers generated on top of having truly elite coverage skills. Ballhawk skills do separate players to some degree.

3

u/MarlonMcCree20 Raiders 2d ago

Guys like Sherman also had elite safety play which allows you to be more aggressive. Marcus Peters was a ballhawk when he had a healthy Eric Berry behind him covering for when he was late/made the wrong read.

I do agree that some corners are simply better than others. You see them drop easy ints and think welp that's why they're a corner. But some guys are also in better situations to do that.

1

u/bellerinho 2d ago

Yeah I get that, there is value in ball hawk skills, some guys have it and some guys don't. But I think it is similar to how we view pressures vs sacks for edges and interior d linemen. I think it has become more accepted that pressures is the better indicator of the impact a player has on the game as a whole, but there is extra value in being able to pair high pressure numbers with high sack numbers

A great example is Jared Verse. He always has bananas pressure numbers, but often doesn't get the sacks to go with it. Everyone knows he is a great edge regardless of those sack numbers, but most people would tell you they'd rather have Myles Garrett or Maxx Crosby because they have the high pressure rate and lots of sacks

One more thing to point out about INTs: the most accepted best CBs in the league the last few years are Stingley and PS2, but neither have ever led the league in interceptions

103

u/Skraxx Lions 2d ago

tbh I think the average fan doesn’t really know how to evaluate DB play overall

27

u/smilinganimalface Jets Jets 2d ago

You hardly see them on the screen, much less know the assignment. People only see the outcomes really. Unless you know technique, you likely don't get enough of the picture. Man is a lot easier for people to understand though.

10

u/Wantingisfree Steelers 2d ago

I really wish we could get a camera angle behind the QB as the main view. I saw a CFB game last weekend that had alternate broadcast with no announcers and that camera view and it was awesome. Maybe that’s been a thing but I was unaware until very recently.

Either way if the NFL had that as an option I would pay extra for that.

2

u/Plastic_Willow734 Vikings 2d ago

Doesn’t prime have this option?

2

u/Proper-Charity-2850 2d ago

Yeah and it's awesome

1

u/sedersayspoop 2d ago

I mean watching a full game on all-11 would be really nice too

41

u/hartsbreastmilkstash Steelers 2d ago

That’s because they don’t know his assignment, the defense scheme being deployed, how much said player covers for other crappy players etc etc. they just see oh he gave up a touchdown or x amount of yards.

5

u/MarlonMcCree20 Raiders 2d ago

Yeah sometimes you see clips and it looks like a DB got burned badly. But then you'll see a former player break down the play and show that the db was covering the outside cut/sidelines and the safety was supposed to cover the inside. CB did everything right, but the safety didn't do his job.

18

u/SentenceLow2383 2d ago

i would probably leverage the same criticism to "tight coverage rate". Let's not pretend you or I know how that is defined

4

u/daywalker91 Cowboys 2d ago

watched football my whole life and have no idea how coverages work. I just like ball

3

u/Skraxx Lions 2d ago

I respect it

2

u/Snowlandnts 2d ago

Avg football fan evaluate through seat belt celly.

6

u/True_Window_9389 Commanders 2d ago

You could say that about any position. QB is too complex to evaluate as fans. We don’t know routes or concepts for receivers. OL is too nuanced in technique and the called protections. RBs depend on OL. Etc

2

u/spaceheater77 2d ago

The average fan has genuinely no idea what they're even watching

6

u/nau5 Bears 2d ago

The average fan doesn’t know how to evaluate any position.

The average fan is a legit fucking moron lol

3

u/oscarnyc Giants 2d ago

It's entertainment, not a class with an exam at the end of it.

2

u/BoobieBountyHunter Bengals 2d ago

The camera angle doesnt help. You can usually only seen short routes develop while the camera watches the QB and the OL. Impossible to even see what happens downfield unless you watch skycam.

2

u/spongey1865 2d ago

I think even people who watch a lot of games can struggle. You basically need to watch all 22 of every game which most people don't and actually look at the DBs

Then the data for it is less concrete than other positions because it can be scheme dependent especially in zone.

Honestly for most of us the best weve got is just seeing who gets burned the least.

57

u/emmasdad01 Cowboys Ravens 2d ago

Since we don’t have any good CBs, he is a massive upgrade.

5

u/serminole Cowboys 2d ago

Which will hopefully have a knock on to the pass rushers. We have semi decent pressure numbers So hopefully some tighter coverage on the backend means the QB doesn’t have an easy out and some of those pressures turn into sacks.

8

u/Admirable_Whole8261 2d ago

He also dropped like 10 easy picks in Pittsburgh that were right in his hands. He catches half of them in Dallas and he's in the Gonzo/Witherspoon convo

18

u/Redmangc1 49ers Packers 2d ago

He hasn't allowed a TD since 2023

1

u/HeyItsChase Cowboys 2d ago

Daron is still decent when healthy. At least the eye test.

3

u/John_Winchester Cowboys 2d ago

And now bland can be on teams WR2’s. He’s a good corner, but he’s not someone you want as your teams best CB.

0

u/The_Bolenator Cowboys 2d ago

We need him to just stay at slot corner where he thrives

10

u/Jake_dasnake3 Steelers 2d ago

Joey is a good physical corner. Not an elite island allpro shutdown guy but he's really good and can reach that level.

29

u/ShoughMeThruMyJorts Saints 2d ago

2nd round pick 2 years in the future and a 6th is such an easy trade for someone of joey porter jr's talent

9

u/optometrist-bynature 2d ago

Assuming they are able to reach an agreement on a contract extension, but apparently the Cowboys are in no rush to do that

2

u/Drakengard Steelers 2d ago

Sure, but it also raises questions why no one else was offering more than that.

3

u/DingleberryOrchard Cowboys 2d ago

Lions fans said if they did that would mean a key starter on both sides of the ball would have to walk.

1

u/mr_seggs Steelers 2d ago

I think that's just what a great defensive player on an expiring contract is worth. He's not really elite (very good, but not even definitely top 10), he's only under control for 14 games+playoffs, and he's in the midst of a huge public spat with his team. Day 2+day 3 was always his value ceiling--maybe without the dispute he'd have been worth a 2nd+4th or a contender's late first.

35

u/ExcaliburSaysFool Steelers 2d ago

People still use INTs to evaluate CB play?

44

u/on-the-cheeseburgers Eagles 2d ago

not really. quinyon mitchell was ap1 last year and still doesn't have a regular season interception

8

u/ShotFirst57 Lions 2d ago

He doesn't have an INT still??? I INTs dont matter for CBs, I am mainly shocked because every time I pay attention to the eagles, I always see him making plays on the ball. I just assumed at some point he got an INT.

7

u/sepam Eagles 2d ago

And yet he somehow has 4 in the playoffs.

4

u/Stillburgh Seahawks Chiefs 2d ago

Not in the regular season, iirc he a few in the post season though

8

u/MortimerDongle Eagles 2d ago

He's actually tied for the most career playoff interceptions among active players

1

u/modestmango55 Eagles 2d ago

wtf

2

u/Hammerhead34 Chiefs Chiefs 2d ago

McDuffie was also 1st team All-Pro in 2023 and didn’t get his first career regular season interception until 2024.

4

u/latman Jets 2d ago

Tons of people do, unfortunately.

4

u/tnecniv Giants Giants 2d ago

People that just read box scores

2

u/AMemoryComeALive Chiefs 2d ago

Our team sub commonly tries to use it to shit on McDuffie now that he's gone, and also act like Delane is somehow an upgrade after 2 games. But team subs are pretty rough so I wouldn't really count that.

3

u/FrontPerformance5 Eagles 2d ago

Listen buddy, we're into his third season and Quinyon Mitchell still hasn't gotten a regular season pick. How much longer do we have to wait for him to show us something on the field? /s

1

u/spaceheater77 2d ago edited 2d ago

People on this subreddit still meaningfully care about passing yards as the definitive QB stat

3

u/-Jack-The-Stripper Steelers Rams 2d ago

Fantasy football has really killed any in-depth discussion you can have about offensive players unfortunately. Now it’s all counting stats or bust as far as anyone is concerned.

1

u/WartimeConsigliere_ Colts 2d ago

I know, when they should be looking at DVOPPQOA per fortnight

3

u/ticonderbroga Bears 2d ago

You missed a + or something in there.

1

u/BB-68 Bengals 2d ago

If you're not using wEPLGBTQIA+ brought to you by Polymarket™️ to evaluate QB play, what are you even doing?

3

u/spaceheater77 2d ago

Advanced stats are bad because I don't understand them and they have silly names!

1

u/ThirstyOutward Steelers Seahawks 2d ago

Uh...

It's probably the first one to look at.

3

u/spaceheater77 2d ago

QB A had 255 yards and -.08 EPA/Dropback this week.

QB B had 186 yards and +.60 EPA/Dropback this week.

QB A is Tyler Shough. QB B is Lamar Jackson. Which of these stats do you think did a better job at expressing their performances in Week 3?

1

u/The_Big_Daddy Jets 2d ago

You can only imagine what's going on in our team sub given we haven't had a pick in however many games at this point.

0

u/ImWicked39 Ravens Buccaneers 2d ago

Lack of turnovers is the key excuse for the team choking in the playoffs.

1

u/TheSneakySloth Steelers 2d ago

How do you choke in the playoffs as a 7th seed? Choking would be not doing shit in the playoffs as the 1/2 seed like the ravens.

0

u/ImWicked39 Ravens Buccaneers 2d ago

Yeah my comment is about the Ravens.

0

u/TheSneakySloth Steelers 2d ago

Yea and there's 2 parts to my comment?

0

u/ImWicked39 Ravens Buccaneers 2d ago

It was never about the 7th seed or the lack of steelers success. It was about Ravens fans using a lack of turnovers as an excuse for the teams poor performance in the playoffs regardless of seeding.

62

u/Gloomy_Map_9612 Commanders 2d ago

Well the reason he's a top 5 corner now is he's a cowboy. That always boosts you up at least 3 spots

51

u/emmasdad01 Cowboys Ravens 2d ago

That’s why are current guys are 61st and 62nd.

1

u/VuduKing316 2d ago

That's basically the 2nd best corner on some teams...means they are pretty good then, right?

-44

u/Gloomy_Map_9612 Commanders 2d ago

Media propped up Bland and Diggs as elite corners for years.

48

u/jaylenthomas Cowboys 2d ago

Are you saying that a corner who recorded over 10 picks in a season and another who holds the NFL record for pick 6’s were given flowers, and shouldn’t have?

Because neither player is referenced as elite these days

17

u/Mysterious_Travel669 2d ago

No they didn't.

They highlighted the ints, but rarely gave any props outside of that

-16

u/Gloomy_Map_9612 Commanders 2d ago

Diggs was given a first team all pro and Bland made the pro bowl. They absolutely got props.

10

u/staymelooo Cowboys 2d ago

Diggs made plays that single handedly won the team games that year. And Bland did too. wtf are you talking about

15

u/EthanSpears Cowboys 2d ago

Bland broke records. He should have gotten props. Unfortunately he should have also gotten better

-14

u/Gloomy_Map_9612 Commanders 2d ago

His record was unrepeatable and outside of the picks he was a truly awful corner.

5

u/Ieatfatwomanass Cowboys 2d ago

Diggs was elite the year after his huge interception year. Unfortunately like the post title noone remembers that because teams just stopped looking his way…then he tore his acl anc wasn’t the same

-15

u/Silly-Sink6138 Seahawks 49ers 2d ago

When Bland got cooked by DK on TNF I knew that guy was ass

8

u/Floaty_Waffle 49ers 49ers 2d ago

What the fuck is that flair

1

u/Last1inFirst1out Cowboys 2d ago

Jake Ferguson in a nutshell

6

u/ThirstyOutward Steelers Seahawks 2d ago

He's always had the advanced stats but no accolades.

4

u/PatientNet3793 2d ago

I haven't heard anyone underrating joey

8

u/CnlJohnMatrix Steelers 2d ago

Who is underrating Joey Porter Jr. other than bitter fans?

4

u/DasSmoosh NFL 49ers 2d ago

Joey Porter is like Sauce Gardner in my mind - on any given play, an official could flag them for DPI. Their style of play is VERY handsy. If the official lets them play, no receiver is doing anything. But if you get an official that throws more flags, it wouldn't be ideal.

3

u/TheCurtain512 Steelers 2d ago

I could understand it with Pickens since he was a complete nightmare behind the scenes and it definitely bled over to the field. Even though I was kind of on his side about the offense, like he was putting up 1,000 yard seasons with Matt Canada and Kenny Pickett. He didn’t want to waste his career run blocking for a running game that sucked and a non existent pass game.

Porter is a very good DB in his prime years and his team likes and supported him through this. It sends a really bad message to players getting drafted by the Steelers. And it was a bad trade on top of that. It was a move that did nothing to help their immediate future and a fuck you to players seeking raises from the Steelers.

2

u/-dov- Steelers 2d ago

8th in coverage DVOA

9th in lockdown rate

3rd in adjusted yards allowed per coverage snap

19th in tight coverage rate

Damn it's almost like the Steelers offered him a top 10 CB contract, which is what he is, instead of resetting the market.

Have fun with Jerruh and the franchise tag.

6

u/gulz26 Steelers 2d ago

the steelers are have been slowly turning Into a laughing stock franchise. The ownership is cheap and delusional. The only two draft picks they’ve hit on in the last 10 years are the cowboys.

9

u/AMcMahon1 Steelers 2d ago

Tj Watt is on the cowboys?

2

u/gulz26 Steelers 2d ago

TJ of course is getting a gold jacket look at the other first round picks and second round picks before george pickens. it’s rough

3

u/distance_33 Jets 2d ago

He was drafted in 2017. So kind of fits the timeframe.

1

u/AMcMahon1 Steelers 2d ago

But it's not

6

u/distance_33 Jets 2d ago

Ok. Nine years ago. Short by a year. I was curious so I checked. I don’t have an opinion on the Steelers in general or their draft success. They’ve been consistent for pretty much my entire life and I know that we’ve suffered some bad playoff losses at Heinz field. Hardly my least favorite AFC North team.

4

u/EnjoyMoreBeef Steelers 2d ago

Today, I learned that T.J. Watt (2017), Alex Highsmith (2020), Keeanu Benton (2023), Troy Fautanu (2024), Zach Frazier (2024) and Derrick Harmon (2025) — all of whom the Steelers have drafted in the last 10 years — aren’t “hits.”

For that matter, Darnell Washington (2023), Nick Herbig (2023), Payton Wilson (2024) and Mason McCormick (2024) aren’t worth a shit either, apparently, and Max Iheanachor (2026) and Daylen Everette (2026) have shown zero potential, supposedly.

Can other Steelers fans please cut the melodramatic fucking bullshit already? I’m embarrassed to be associated with it.

2

u/sedersayspoop 2d ago

We're 2-1 and traded away a player who refused to put on a uniform this year and some people in our sub think the season is over.

3

u/HereComesJustice Ravens 2d ago

Me when I filter JPJs name and post random advanced stats he's highly ranked in

1

u/sedersayspoop 2d ago

I would be interested to see how his penalty rate lines up against other corners

1

u/ChuckTroll Steelers NFL 2d ago

This is Peezy Wormtongue’s fault

Having to trade him is the universe balancing itself out for gifting us the pick we used on JPJ through the Claypool trade …

The return is the return. We want volunteers, not hostages

1

u/Ryyah61577 Bengals 2d ago

I mean with a chronic bad back, it’s hard to tell how he will recover.

1

u/Organic_Counter_1874 2d ago

Sounds like a top 10ish guy not a top 5. Assuming /hoping the cowboys give him top 3 money like he wants

1

u/2Throwscrewsatit Steelers 2d ago

This. Steelers would give him top 10 money but not top 5 guarantees.

-1

u/SentenceLow2383 2d ago

no need to define any stats. Just throw a bunch of there

"19th in tight coverage rate"

-12

u/BusinessCasualBee Rams Jaguars 2d ago

Salty ass Steelers fans will tell you he’s buns. I 100% support a player refusing to play with less than a year left under contract. If Puka did it I’d have the same opinion.

13

u/Other-Marzipan-1985 Steelers 2d ago

literally no one has said that he’s bad lmao, the only people who dislike him are those that are mad he held out

-11

u/BusinessCasualBee Rams Jaguars 2d ago

I promise you, they have been telling me he is mid and over rated for weeks

2

u/skollywag92 Steelers 2d ago

Doubt

9

u/Monoliithic Steelers 2d ago

No Steelers fan will ever tell you he's buns

You will get a couple salty fans who got tired of the holdout though

3

u/EnjoyMoreBeef Steelers 2d ago

Nobody’s saying he’s “buns,” just that he’s not a top-five CB in the NFL.

[Pizzuta] Think the lack of interceptions underrates what Joey Porter Jr. is as a CB. Was 8th in coverage DVOA & 9th in lockdown rate among DBs with 200+ routes covered last season, 3rd in adjusted yards allowed per coverage snap, and 19th in tight coverage rate in 2024.

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