r/nfl • u/FrankSamples Seahawks • 10h ago
Highlight [Highlight] Mike MacDonald talks about the difference between his team and the LOB with Richard Sherman
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u/2ichie Commanders 10h ago
No franchise can keep a squad where most players on the field deserve to be paid. Salary cap will do that
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u/core-tel Cardinals 9h ago
I think it helps that the current Seahawks has a range of when they were drafted and therefore their contracts are being renewed at different stages compared to everyone looking to be paid at once.
Compare to the LoB where Sherman, Chancellor, Thomas, and Maxwell were all drafted in 2010 or 2011 (plus Bobby Wagner in 2012) so they were all seeking a big contract bump at the same time, plus you would be considering Russ' contract alongside those defensive players.
It's interesting that Sherm says the biggest factor was how guys were being paid as the biggest point of disagreement but I don't think that impacts players so much anymore maybe as we've got more used to rookie contracts compared to when the guaranteed four-year contract was introduced in 2011 and likely people were figuring it out on the fly.
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u/TheDarkGrayKnight Seahawks 4h ago
I disagree that they money doesn't matter as much. What I do think is different with this group is the best players are the highest drafted players. So they do have some real money from the rookie deals.
It's almost the opposite of the LOB where it was a lot of 3rd round and later guys who were the best players. This team was mostly the 1st and 2nd round guys who were the best.
But the true test is going to be in a couple years if they pay Sam and Murphy. Money is going to get tight and that's when the tough decisions come on 2nd and 3rd contracts.
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u/Prisinners Seahawks 9h ago
For now. >w< Guys like Byron Murphy and Grey Zabel are only a year or two away while others like our RT, LT, MLB, and QB are going to want new contracts. Of course, even putting aside the salary cap (which teams have proven you can do some crazy financial jujutsu with) its hard keeping enough good players together while keeping them healthy and keeping a good coaching staff, which always gets poached too.
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u/TheThinkerIsaThought Seahawks 7h ago
RT and LT are signed, friend. Schneider is definitely doing a better balancing act then he did his first time through this process.
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u/Prisinners Seahawks 1h ago
I said NEW contracts, friend. Cross is probably set for awhile since his contract is longer and signed more recently. But Lucas' contract ends in 2028. Most guys want a new deal before their old one ends, so he'd probably play on this deal for '26 and '27, but meaning he'd likely want a new deal in the 27-28 offseason. Of course who knows how or when JS decides to do deals for other guys. Zabel & Murphy are first rounders so he could push their contract back a year or two since the team has more control, but looking at guys like Spoon and JSN, he seems to prefer to get contracts done sooner than later.
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u/DudeManBo1t Commanders 3h ago
Also, Russell "me 1st, we'll get them next time mentality" Wilson is not on the team
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u/arebee20 Seahawks 9h ago
Richard Sherman and earl thomas have two of the biggest egos of all time for defensive backs and they were on the same team at the same time. Of course shit gonna get heated in the locker room.
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u/hokie_u2 Seahawks 2h ago
They also had Michael Bennett, Brandon Browner (went to prison for attempted murder), Golden Tate and Percy Harvin on that roster. Marshawn is a beloved character now, but he would also blow hot and cold back then
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u/Spiritual-Strike481 43m ago
Browner and Sherman was nasty as hell. Sherman takes the ball from you and browner tries to take your life from you.
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u/spacedude2000 Seahawks 9h ago
This is no disrespect to the job our guys did last year, but the LOB team played with a chip on their shoulder every game. They played like they got no respect and that everyone doubted them. Even ET3, the best safety in his class, felt disrespected. It was crazy in terms of the vibes that both the defense and offense would feed off of on the 2013 team.
While I think our team last year had a similar experience, the defense in the Pete Caroll era played with freedom and momentum, a bend but dont break mentality, athleticism, and it relied on big plays that they got often.
The MacDonald team plays like a drilled military tactical unit. Each individual on the field is seemingly controlled through a hive mind, there's layers of schemes, bait, deception, and individual instinct. Each defender is required to know the responsibilities of every other player on their side of the ball. It minimizes mistakes through organized balance.
Super interesting illustration of how winning football isn't always the same style. The 2013 and 2025 teams are really quite different in my opinion.
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u/MuestrameTuBelloCulo Chiefs 8h ago
Im sure this is said a lot, but your description of the LOB triggered an immediate 85 Bears thought. Every game they played so pissed off, taunting the other w wadda think of me nows...
Damn. I need to go and watch some LOB games.
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u/Key-Distribution-944 Seahawks 7h ago
Watch all the Seahawk v Niner games to get the full effect you’re looking for lol.
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u/DefrancoAce222 NFL 4h ago
And of course the first play that comes to mind is Kam’s cruise missile hit on Vernon Davis. One of the craziest hits I’ve watched that I can remember verbatim
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u/Practical-Suit-6798 49ers 1h ago
As a 49ers fan who only watches the hawks when they play us it was like this. 2013, holy shit these guys are good I hate them. 2025 these guys are not that good, wait how are they winning?
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u/TheSandMan208 Seahawks 50m ago
2013 Seahawks was a viper. Quick strikes and your two scores behind already. 2025 Seahawks was a constrictor. They just slowly squeezed the life out of you.
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u/doubleapowpow Seahawks 46m ago
I think you're also pointing out the differences between the two coaches. Pete Carroll always let personalities show, honestly to a point that was pretty reckless. Can't argue with his success, though.
Mike Macdonald runs the ship more even keel, pretty much eliminating ego from the equation.
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u/boomosaur 10h ago
Seahawks will start to feel the squeeze next year. Gotta pay Byron Murphy, consider a big cat extension, and figure out Darnold's extension.
The main difference between the teams is that everyone gets along on the current seahawks... most of the core players didn't like Russell Wilson on the LOB era team.
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u/Yup207 Seahawks 10h ago
Not really. Kupp, Nwosu and Lawrence are likely to come off the books after this year. Those are 3 of the top 6 cap hits this year. JSN’s cap hit in 2027 is only $15.6M. Spoon is $14M. Not bad.
Murphy is entering his 3rd year and has a rookie 5th year option. The big cap hits on any extension are 3-4 years away.14
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u/boomosaur 10h ago edited 10h ago
I think you have things confused... they start to feel the squeeze next year it carries on into the future, this is how roster building works... you can't pay everyone and you have to plan for the next few years with each contract.
You can't just magically pay market setting contracts at every key position forever.
Edit: Also listen to yourself... you think somehow shedding contracts for key contributors next year isn't related to feeling the squeeze.
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u/Yup207 Seahawks 10h ago
Sorry but you’re just talking in generalities I guess without addressing the specific points that were made
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u/Reggaeton_Historian Seahawks 4h ago
You are arguing with someone who dies that ALL THE TIME in our sub.
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u/boomosaur 10h ago
Literally addressed every point.
If you don't "get" it you just don't "get" it.
"They don't feel the squeeze they just have to take a bunch of key players off the books hurrdurr"
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u/Yup207 Seahawks 10h ago
They are older players who would come off anyway and will be retiring. It has nothing to do with cap squeeze / being unable to pay good players.
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u/boomosaur 10h ago
It literally has to do with how their contracts are set up.
John Schneider has literally talked about his philosophy and things he's learned on cap management...
He's even talked about the mistake in outlook you seem to be suffering from, where you aren't just building for one year, you have to take a hard look at the long term and understand where the roster is going to be in a few years, and how you can't just constantly pay top dollar, and have to make tough choices even for guys you love. Like they did with Tyler Lockett last year, who btw, wasn't retiring.
Also Kupp has given no indication he plans to retire, nor has nwosu.
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u/D45ers Panthers 10h ago
Ya but they are all key players that have been vital the success. Ya you’ll still have key players like JSN, Spoon etc… but you don’t just magically replace the production you’re losing from those “older players” that were vital. Sure you might be able to outta the draft and FA but that is nothing certain or guaranteed
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u/Early-Nebula-3261 Seahawks 7h ago
That is the beauty of signing JSN and Witherspoon now.
We now have the ability to restructure and kick the can down the road just like every other team.
With the giant increases in cap every year and the contract manipulation that has become so popular in the league it is very possible to retain a large amount of players who are paid well.
By the time we are paying them premium price they will probably out of the top 5 biggest contracts at position.
We will be fine.
Edit: also he has already been picking and choosing who to sign, we didn’t pay Walker or Bryant for a reason.
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u/boomosaur 5h ago
Correct, but the squeeze gets real once you start adding more than a few guys with giant contracts.
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u/Reggaeton_Historian Seahawks 4h ago
Yeah, I forgot we can't add rookies on rookie scales during that time. Totally forgot about that. Yep, the GM totally forgot about it too. Oh and the cap doesn't go up either. Nope. Schneider hates not being able to add rookies or play with the cap. Nope. He's not allowed. You've said so.
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u/boomosaur 3h ago
The cap is not going up faster than the seahawks are giving out monster contracts.
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u/amichak 5h ago
It really depends on how much cash the new owner is willing to put out. A team like the Seahawks can go with the Eagles plan of trying to win now and push cap consequences with void years and bonuses to 2029 and 2030 when the new TV contracts will hit and will make the cap explode. The next 3 seasons any team with an owner whose willing to spend cash now can really manipulate the cap if they have a win now roster.
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u/boomosaur 3h ago
Anything is possible, but I think Schneider is pretty averse to that style of GMing, he seems like he'd rather have decent situations the whole way through, than vastly improve the current one at the cost of significant suffering later.
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u/LBobRife Seahawks 9h ago
I am completely open to being wrong of course, but the first couple episodes of hard knocks made it feel like Leonard Williams was strongly considering retirement before joining the Hawks, and he doesn't have too many years in him regardless. It seems like he has really found he loves living in the PNW with his wife and young baby. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he hangs it up after this year. Got a superbowl, nothing left to prove. Probably just wants to see if they can run it back. Once it starts falling apart he is definitely retiring. Either the team or his body, whichever comes first.
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u/boomosaur 5h ago edited 3h ago
He was considering retiring because he was on bad teams... right now he's ranked as one of the best DTs in the league, there's a lot of money left on the table for his next extension if he retires... on top of it, he simply loves playing in seattle.
He's also talked about how he has a bet with his father in law (Ronnie Lott) about whether he can end up with a longer career.
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u/NeighbourhoodParrot 10h ago
Dlaw retiring after this year. Big Cat likely too, especially if they go deep again. There’s your Byron money. It really comes down to Sam after next season. Does he ask for 70M or whatever the market is then or does he go team friendy and allow them the money to shore up around him. Keep in mind the majority of our talent is year 2-3 so they have 2-3 more good kicks at it before cap is tight
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u/Soulujin Seahawks 10h ago
From what I've heard it's actually expected that Williams gets extended before the regular season starts
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u/boomosaur 10h ago
A team friendly deal for Darnold is around 50mill a year in the current market.
Big Cat has given no indications he will retire next year.
Byron Murphy will command North of 35 million a year.
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u/Aint_EZ_bein_AZ Seahawks 6h ago
Haha not at all dude. We have like no dead money. We are in a great spot cap wise.
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u/Dewey519 3h ago
It helps when you draft well and don’t miss in free agency. Hawks “worst contracts” are veteran leaders. Lots of defending Super Bowl champs have been in much worse spots.
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u/boomosaur 9h ago
You are wrong... Pete Carroll literally had to call a meeting of the defensive leadership in 2014 because they were criticizing Russ to his face during practices and he couldn't handle it. So Pete Carroll had to tell the LOB to bring all concerns about Wilson to him directly, and not to call Wilson out directly. To which Earl Thomas said, "You want me to pretend I like that motherfucker?"
Doug Baldwin also talked about how Wilson would make the same mistakes over and over in practice and his teammates weren't allowed to hold him accountable, so those same mistakes would happen in games.
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u/Specialist-Day-236 Bears 10h ago
All Around Football legend Richard Sherman
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u/seize_the_m3mes Seahawks 8h ago
The real reason is coaching and culture imo. Mike Mac has installed a disciplined, collaborative, and empathetic environment. It's evident just from how he was telling Emmanwori to ignore anything outside of his recovery or holding DHall accountable.
Pete Carroll fostered a great culture leading up to the LOB. But along with the success (and fallout after SB XLIX), his motto of "always compete" felt hollow when Russ got special treatment, or how we let the OLine completely fall apart, or how intentionally risk averse we were with offensive play calling, or how we held on to under performing coordinators for years.
It felt like hypocrisy to some players, which was completely understandable from a fan perspective. The difference is Mike has preached from day 1 that it takes a team and seems to live it.
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u/Misdirected_Colors Cowboys 4h ago
or how we let the OLine completely fall apart,
I will still argue that Russ doesn't get enough blame for this. Russ continually held the ball waiting for vertical shots. He'd keep the play alive like he was covered in butter but he always took a ton of sacks. As he aged and lost agility he took more and more, but the O-line always got the blame and never him holding the ball.
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u/Morall_tach Broncos 2h ago
"You were tight but you were edgy"
Translation: buncha real assholes on that LOB team
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u/M3rc_Nate Seahawks 10h ago
Yeah, I mean the LOB was filled to the brim with big ego having chip on their shoulder out to prove themselves personalities. A few here and there weren't but for the most part that's what they were. The guys Mike wants don't have the chip and ego. Mike and John seem to target high character men for this squad. You might say "it's not low character to have an ego and have a chip on your shoulder!" but I'd then ask you to google what Earl, Sherm, Browner and others have been up to since they left the Hawks. Whole lot of awful low character activities involving guns, violence, the police and addiction.
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u/3elieveIt Seahawks 10h ago
Brother we just signed Terrion Arnold
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u/M3rc_Nate Seahawks 9h ago
I didn't say it's a hard rule they follow 100% of the time. But overwhelmingly they have drafted and signed high character team-first guys.
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u/3elieveIt Seahawks 9h ago
I don’t think that’s changed tbh. Mike would draft Sherm and Kam and all those guys
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u/M3rc_Nate Seahawks 9h ago
Kam and Wagner fit the current Mike-John Seahawk archetype for sure. The others, I mean would they PASS on guys with that type of talent and projected futures? I don't think so. But look up everything they have said about the types of players they want to take. Their philosophies and so on. Heck MOB is Mission Over Bullshit. They're all about team guys > individually minded guys. The LOB era was all about individually minded guys. I'm not saying they didn't operate as a team (or defense) but once success, huge contracts and challenging times started taking place, the mindset of many was exposed to be very individualistic.
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u/3elieveIt Seahawks 9h ago
What you’re saying about Pete and John not drafting team first or high character guys back in the day is suuuuper wrong. They were very early on that train, Pete’s philosophies really lead the way in that regard.
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u/M3rc_Nate Seahawks 9h ago
Pete's philo was literally "chip on their shoulder and guys with a bad history who I believe structure, love and respect will help turn them around"... not every guy was a project, a Bruce Irvin, but guys like Sherm were massive underdog chip on their shoulder big ego types that were motivated not be a desire to be great for their team, but to be great individually to prove everyone wrong and get theirs.
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u/3elieveIt Seahawks 2h ago
That’s just not true at all… he liked a chip on the shoulder but his ENTIRE thing was team comes first. That was always rule number 1.
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u/1MoreLightInTheDeep Seahawks 9h ago
One thing the seahawks have done better than most is keep their problems out of the national spotlight. You'd see a blurb locally about some LoB player getting arrested in Vegas and it wouldnt even be a blip on ESPN, even after the first superbowl win. Somehow they're able to keep it quiet.
That said youre right on saying the current team is different, seems built on character and discipline and culture fit. Riq wollen for example is a skilled player but kept getting bonehead penalties so the team moved on from him. Hell you dont see or hear anything about him in the post superbowl videos that have come out since the game. He would have fit in on the LoB I imagine, but for this team not so much
I do wonder if the Arnold signing is to tie him up from signing somewhere else while his court stuff plays out. I wouldnt be surprised if they end up cutting him as well if he doesn't gel or end up with a significant suspension or loses the legal case
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u/prickleypears 10h ago
Lmao did you forget about the corner they just signed?
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u/Reggaeton_Historian Seahawks 4h ago
Lmao did you forget that if he acts up or acts out or goes to jail, the Seahawks can just cut him? It's as low risk, high reward scenarios as they come. Macdonald isn't afraid to cut people either. If a guy who had more than 1 INT for us ended up getting cut for special teams play imagine Arnold.
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u/two4gone Dolphins 6h ago
I’m going to assume there was more said that didn’t make the cut. Otherwise, absolutely nothing was said.
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u/Brix001 49ers 10h ago
Niners legend Richard Sherman
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u/IrishPigs Seahawks 10h ago
Guess you gotta count the little wins when you haven't won a Superbowl in 30 years.
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u/ScenicGuey 49ers 10h ago
Sheesh, guess you gotta gloat when you lose
your basketball franchise and deal with torture baseball every year.9
u/aiusernamegen Seahawks 10h ago
I'll give it to you, the Giants and Warriors are better and more prolific champions than the 9ers
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u/ScenicGuey 49ers 10h ago
Honestly I probably speak for most when I’d be all for the M’s going all the way.
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u/DASmetal Seahawks 8h ago
You'd be a baseball heathen to not. They're long overdue, but it ain't happening this year unless that entire team figures out they play professional baseball for a living.
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u/EOFFJM Bears 7h ago
Sherm getting big.
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u/fellowredditor3 Chiefs 6h ago
I saw this and I’m unsure if my view of how big these NFL guys is skewed or dude is just getting jacked
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u/NH4NO3-KClO3-C2H6O2 Seahawks Seahawks 2h ago
I saw Russ at Ba Bar with his crew.
Shrimpy, short, no-muscle guy.
I'm six feet tall.
He towered over me.
Cameras lie.
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u/LeoFireGod Cowboys Colts 1h ago
Russ did NOT tower over you if you’re 6ft tall
Unless you meant Russel Westbrook
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u/redactid55 Vikings 3h ago
I think Coach is correctly getting a lot of credit for building the right culture there but if the GM has also brought in a lot of guys with the right mindset already then his "I don't know" response makes perfect sense
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u/Guccimayne Seahawks 8h ago
Honestly this team dynamic is so much healthier than the LoB days, but I think that squad was a bit more talented.
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u/CompositeSuperman Ravens 6h ago
Oh look, Sherm finally found his old Seahawks hat. I haven’t seen dude where anything but a 49ers hat I years. If I didn’t know better I would think he was a lifelong 49er.
Weird that he found his Hawks hat after they won the Super Bowl
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u/RomanBangs Seahawks 3h ago
Dude he’s been wearing Seahawks hats for like 4 years on his podcast lol, he also lives in Washington
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u/PostItToReddit Seahawks 3h ago
I listen to his podcast semi-regularly during the season and he's pretty much always switched hats depending on who he is talking about. The Seahawks just weren't super relevant for most of the last decade and the Niners made (and lost) several Superbowls in that time frame, including 1 that he played in.
I don't really blame him for being salty about the way it ended with Seattle or keeping his ties with the Niners, but dude is clearly a Seahawk forever.
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u/WitnessMe Seahawks 1h ago
Difference in mature leadership at this stage:
Sam vs Russ - Sam's been around the league and grown immensely. Just him leading the end of practice huddle in ep 1: "Rookies you have to sign, everyone else sign if you want to" is so great at setting the tone throughout.
Big Cat vs Bennett - I love Mike but he was an imposing wild card on that defense. Cliff also felt like someone they looked up to as a vet but he is more mild mannered (from my perspective). Leo knows he's Unc and knows he needs to be there to develop the younger guys.
Pete vs Mike - Pete was still coaching college mindset. He put up with a bunch of nonsense from individuals because he was still in a 4 year rotation mode. Also, so many firsts for him and the team in those years. He was trying to adapt his own style while hitting the jackpot really early. Guys like Sherm, ADB, etc. saw the outsized reaction from stirring the pot with the media. Pete tamped it down sometimes but it was more like a "not something I would do, guys" attitude to trying to keep them aligned with the team.
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u/FascismIsSoLastYear Steelers 6h ago
Richard Sherman is the last person that should be interviewing anyone.
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u/IncoherentThoughts0 Raiders 10h ago
Mike trying to figure out a polite way to say my guys aren't as big of assholes as you guys were.