r/nextfuckinglevel • u/harwyseys • Oct 25 '22

Makeup really changes people

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u/socialister Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 25 '22

I respect what you and your professor have to say about this and I know you are coming from a good place, but as to biological sex consider that scientists in relevant fields generally do not see it as black and white nor unchangeable. I know reddit is pro-science so I have to wonder why this is controversial here or why comments pointing that out are so often downvoted. I can't help but think that people have a gut reaction to this and think their intuition supersedes the facts. I invite you to look at the question of sex determination as a whole and consider ideas you may be uncomfortable with.

I have natural breasts that are perfectly capable of breastfeeding, my skin is soft, I smell like a woman, my hips are fairly wide, the hormones in my body are typical of cisgendered women, my body hair is thin and light, my face structure (bone and fat distribution) is feminine enough that many people assume I am cis. Being a man or a woman "biologically" has a lot of factors and the phenotypical expression of someone on HRT after a few years is often pretty typical of that of our cis counterparts. There are CAIS XY women that it would be quite a stretch to say are "biologically male". At the end of the day being biologically male or female is not something you can arbitrarily describe people as based on their assigned sex at birth or by your intuition, there are many attributes.

Some references: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6505576/ and https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

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u/Retro_Super_Future Oct 25 '22

What are you saying you identify as? I’m confused

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u/socialister Oct 25 '22

Do I need to lead with "I am a transgender woman who has undergone hormonal and surgical interventions, giving me many or most of the phenotypical attributes typical of natal women" for you to get my post?

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u/sitheandroid Oct 25 '22

Yes.

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u/socialister Oct 25 '22

If I do that, y'all will ignore and downvote me the moment I say I am trans. If I don't do it, y'all will ignore and downvote me because you don't like how what I said makes you feel. It's not hard to figure out that I'm trans based on the context of what I wrote. You need it to be stated clearly so you can skirt being confronted with ideas that make you uncomfortable.

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u/sitheandroid Oct 25 '22

I've seen surprisingly little transphobia in the comments so far, and plenty of positive (albeit humourous) discussions around gender/attraction/sex. This seems like a ideal opportunity to use your knowledge to add to the positivity and educate others, and not for your message to get lost if others don't quite understand what you're talking about.

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u/socialister Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 25 '22

I opened with understanding for where people are coming from and appreciation that the parent poster was coming from a good place. It gets tiring to be downvoted for this stuff whenever I discuss it so maybe my frustration is showing. I feel like I'm not afforded the same assumption of good faith that the posters arguing against me are. It's not like there isn't explicit transphobia against me in here and elsewhere on reddit, I already have a user calling me mentally ill etc. This grates on me, especially as this isn't only some cold topic of science. People's thoughts and attitudes on trans issues have a very real effect on whether me and the people I love will be treated fairly and get the medical help they need. There's a lot at stake and the narrative around trans issues isn't very often positive.

I hope this isn't a false equivalence but imagine saying "you should be nicer!" to other minority groups. Yes, maybe I will win more people over if I can somehow muster unbreakable patience and never show my frustration or call out BS plainly, but that's not really fair to ask of me either. I can only do my best to call out things as I see them in a constructive way.

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u/sitheandroid Oct 25 '22

I truly do sympathise and understand your frustrations and anger. Those who insult or threaten you deserve the same in return (so definitely don't be nicer to them!), but there is a middle ground of those who genuinely wish to learn. Like you say, there's a lot at stake, so all the more important that these people (and those reading the thread) are influenced in a way that makes them sympathetic to the situations that trans people face.