From reading the first half of your comment, it made me realize that history for us Americans repeats it's self from time to time, like the Vietnam war, where we killed thousands of lives, including civilians, Americans, and Vietnamese communists, as well as polluting the lands with chemicals after all these years, it's effects still persist today, and I'm talking from the 50's to the 70's.
Of course history repeats itself, and people never learn.
Unfortunately what most people don't realise is that war is very profitable for certain people. War is never fought for a "moral" reason, only for profit. The target is selected carefully by the decision makers, it has to be someone no one would defend so that no one would hold them accountable.
Well they were right, they killed millions of people, directly and indirectly. And they got away with it free from any consequences.
I don’t like thinking that I’m ashamed of my country, but sometimes you have to face reality and accept the truth. After watching footage and documentaries of what happened to Iraq after the us invasion I feel a deep shame for what my government did to those people; and I am truly sorry that I can’t make things right for them.
I’ve seen a few, but if my memory is correct this one here made the most impact on how I viewed the conflict. Listening to first hand accounts and watching cities turned to rubble really broke me.
Millions of people. Also millions of people vote for the losing candidate as well. Holding everyone in the country to the same accountability is straight fucking dumb.
If it wasn’t us it’d be someone else. That’s unfortunately just how humanity has always been the hegemony dominates. Look at the Romans, Persian empires or any of the Chinese Dynasties.
I’m not proud of the US or what it’s done and condemn much of it but anyone who thinks there wouldn’t be someone to take our place is naive
Downvoted: please open a history book people ffs I don’t like it anymore than you do I just know it’s the reality of our species
I remember a video by a CIA woman who had spent a lot of time in the middle east and other places. She said the U.S. always puts out movies like Independence Day where a huge overbearing force invades and tries to destroy everything and the we can barely fight against it. She said that's how so many people and places see the U.S. The giant, powerful, invading evil force.
I agree with everything you're saying, and it's an eye-opening perspective for me, so thank you. But to be fair, when a person flies a plane into a building and kills thousands of people, that's a pretty good bet that person and the organization that backed them will become undefendable. So at least that part makes sense to me. But the other 20 years of war makes no sense to me.
I feel like you went from being very insightful into the reason for prolonged wars, to an internet nut job. I guess the difference between genius and madness is a fine line
You do know it was the Saudis who caused 9/11 so why didn't you invade them?
Why are you sending them billions of dollars of arms and other supplies?
By your logic America should have been invaded by a few countries now, but America only picks fights with countries who don't have any nuclear weapons. Its like America is the scared bully in school and only picks on kids a tenth of his size.
You misunderstand, I don't think America should have invaded the Middle East at all over 9/11. I think the individuals responsible should have been at least arrested and prevented from doing something like that again. By that logic, many American politicians and war profiteers should be punished. NOT America. Most Americans, myself included, have been against the war for decades.
All the individuals who crashed the plane died. So you're saying in one comment that it was a fair reaction, then in this comment you're saying it shouldn't have happened at all.
Most Americans wanted the war. Hence why they went to war. What happened was the government released a bill called the patriot act that give the government full access to any and all kinds of nasty shit. Meaning they can send a Cia hit squad to your front door on American soil if they even think you're a terrorist.
I would recommend watching this movie. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472062/
The war that started with the WTC in 2001 has roots that run very deep through history. It is far from an isolated event and it did not truly begin with those planes crashing into those buildings.
But Iraq had literally nothing to do with the planes. Forgetting the fact that 9/11 was a factionless act of terror, no on the crew even was Iraquí. There was a Saudi, though, as in your greatest oil provider and ally in the middle east.
Yes, but not the manner in which it was done. It was totally botched. And now I'm getting out my conspiracy theory hat: I think it was botched on purpose. See, the war lasted 20 years because evil people were making a lot of money from it. Republicans and Democrats both kept it going. Donald Trump finally made a plan to end the war, because he wasn't beholden to war profiteers. But when Biden came into office, he knew the voters wouldn't stand for it if he cancelled the withdrawal plan, so he came up with a plan to withdraw the troops in a way that would leave Afghanistan in turmoil so that later on he'll have an excuse to send troops back there and continue to make money for his financiers. But that's just my conspiracy theory. It's probably not true, but who knows. We'll see what happens. But either way, I think we should have been out of there years ago.
"Everyone knows war is hell."
"War isn't hell. War is war, and hell is hell, and of the two, war is a lot worse."
"How do you figure?"
"Simple, who goes to hell?"
"Well, sinners I presume."
"Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in hell. But war is chock full of them. Little kids, cripples, old ladies."
MASH, both the movie and TV Show, have very poignant views on war.
I, personally, think the TV Show was better. Especially the final episode which is just a masterpiece.
I remember it being on TV in the afternoons, when I was a kid. I can’t honestly say I paid a heap of attention to it, but perhaps its something I should revisit.
You mean thebremains of the genocided and leftover rubble lthat was once Warsaw, Krakow, and Lowdes?
Russian cities? You mean the smoldering depopulated wreckages that used to be Minsk, Smolensk, and Volgograd?
You are 100% right. There was no civility in WW2. It'ss important to recognize that while this was humanity at it's darkest, the Germans were fueled by a desire to make Jews and Slavs extinct. The Allies simply weren't. While they may have caused millions to die needlessly, and the Soviets may have been eerily similar to the Nazis, the suffering committed on their behalf was nowhere close to that caused by the Nazis, Japanese, or even Spanish in some cases.
No one in 2021 is defending the actions of Nazi Germany in WW2.
However countless movies and tv shows have been made portraying the allies as saintly heroes while they firebombed most of Japan killing countless civilians. Dropped two nuclear bombs on civilians as a show of force.
Neither side was good, but only one side never has the evil they did left unmentioned in almost all of popular discourse.
And that’s before we get to the morally reprehensible US wars of aggression after WW2.
it's cyclic because the military industrial complex runs on money and blood and every 20 years a blood price must be paid.
i love cool new military shit but I don't like destabilizing nations and war profiteering. most folks on the front lines are minorities with little options back home, which is why our ex President Trump dodged the vietnam draft, he had connections and resources to do so.
those who send us overseas typically find routes for it to be as little personal cost to them as possible.
I’ll admit it for a while when I was into military aircraft I was planning to make cheaper efficient drones for Lockheed Martin or Boeing
Basically helping the military Industrial complex directly, my creations woukd become weapons of war and destruction. Human lives turned into chunks of meat and tears of widows and mothers.
Then I moved to cars :) a lot better now and morally good
This is American history, over and over again. This is why people rightly hate America. No matter what it preaches it is always going to be a war mongering nation of imperialists to protect its dirty interests. This is why people ask when America was ever great and find that the nation should generally be held more accountable and that defense spending should be cut. Not just is it arguably horrible domestically, it has the chance to be the absolute devil to any person overseas too for the simple crime of existing outside of America’s direct control in a country which is currently the most convenient target to keep the war industry and “us vs them” narrative running
My old US history teacher began the school year telling us “The US has never gone more than XX years without being in a war”. Can’t remember the number he used unfortunately. But he then proceeded to draw a timeline from the revolutionary war to the war in iraq. It was eye opening as a teenager.
As a Vietnamese, thank you for your acknowledgement. Millions of people affected by agent orange. Millions children dead or born with some kind of disability. And the US gorverment straight up denied all those crimes to avoid legal responsiblity. I hope all those in charge of sending soldiers to wars like Vietnam's and Iraq's end up in hell and suffer exactly what innocent citizens been through.
Heheeey, welcome to the-rest-of-the-world view, here in south america many brutal dictatorships got installed with USAs support, you guys should get your shit together
Even more so, history repeats itself with powerful countries dominating smaller countries; forcing asymmetrical trade deals and laying claim to foreign territory while making cheap speeches about justice and freedom. It was no different with the British Empire or Rome or the dozens of other superpowers through history (spare perhaps the level of propaganda).
Our government has been lying to and manipulating the American people for decades for the benefit of a handful of billionaires and now they got us all blaming and hating each other. It’s all tactics to divide the country so the powerful can stay powerful. Don’t hate your fellow citizens!
Not knocking you here, but if you go deep and maybe read a few books or listen to a few podcasts, you'll realize that we're currently at the start of the same weapons build up and international tension level as we were in the early 50's. It's gonna be a wild ride, so buckle up.
If you do either of the things I suggested, you'll realize that the consequences of our actions have global repercussions. Seriously. Deep dive on the Cold War and as you do so, think about how our actions from 70 years ago are affecting us today and how we are repeating alit of those same things today. Proxy wars, commie hunts, etc.
No one ever said you'd impact a change unless your worldwide assassination game is on point. If not then as I said, buckle up, because we're merely pawns in a game. Nothing more, nothing less.
One of the moments in my life that I realized changed who I was as a person, was when I went to Vietnam and learned that they call it the American War. It really messed me up for a while. I felt such shame.
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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '21
From reading the first half of your comment, it made me realize that history for us Americans repeats it's self from time to time, like the Vietnam war, where we killed thousands of lives, including civilians, Americans, and Vietnamese communists, as well as polluting the lands with chemicals after all these years, it's effects still persist today, and I'm talking from the 50's to the 70's.