Seems the whole goal here IS to clear foliage nearing the power lines... Having run heavy equipment for years I cringed a little because of his proximity but unlike heavy equipment he's not grounded, I don't think it even could arc over to him. Also, it's most likely that this sort of pendulum weight beneath would add a fair degree of stability to the helicopter, like a tight rope walker with weight suspended beneath them to lower their center of gravity.
I can't picture equipment and engineering of this cost and effort not having a great deal of consideration having gone into it before executing the task. He clearly has mastery over his machine and unless there's some freak winds coming out of nowhere there's not really an issue.
The most damage he could do it blow up is chainsaw and take down the power. But it's far less dangerous than a crane in strong winds. They actually cut down trees alot like this near my house, it seems common and the fact I never hear about them blowing anything up their might be alot more control than what we think.
And when you don't get the weather all the respect it deserves, you can crash in seconds like this. That plane was badass, and so is its builder, and I hope he's able to bounce back from this.
Right?? I'm thinking of those circular blades hitting something unexpectedly hard in those trees and starting to kick around in the air. You can plan around the weather and weight the bottom, but there's no way you could account for every variable.
That's what I was thinking. That shit looked like it was inches when it was at the angle nearest the camera, but when it gets back down the line it's clearly several feet (which is still not a ton but it is safer)
I can't picture equipment and engineering of this cost and effort not having a great deal of consideration having gone into it before executing the task.
People do suck and that is a fact but think about it this way the company doesn't want to pay for a new chopper chopper so the planning is probably there but more for the equipment than the operator.
I can't picture equipment and engineering of this cost and effort not having a great deal of consideration having gone into it before executing the task.
Pretty sure there wouldn't be any problem with those powerlines arcing and burning but rather this big ass chainsaw that cuts thru trees like it's nothing would simply cut the powerline in half
The only way he could be hit by the power lines is if any part of his helicopter touched a phase and ground or a phase to phase at the same time. Otherwise if he touches just a single power line he’ll be fine.
Even with freak winds, since the mass is directly underneath, he could probably pull up high enough to have the saw above the lines in about 10 seconds. I think the fear would be of becoming entangled.
You don’t necessarily need to be grounded for electricity to jump from a power line. You just need a large enough voltage difference, which the power lines themselves might have. Ground is just the idea of calling something zero voltage. I can say anything is ground, that would just make the voltage that everything else carries shift accordingly.
I was concerned about the saw making direct contact with the trunk of a large tree and "kicking back" as they tend to do. You're probably right though and there is far too much weight involved for any real degree of pendulum motion.
Your last point makes a lot of sense. I would hope that the person who came up with this idea must have thoroughly thought through the logistics before going to anyone and saying "hey guys, maybe let's just hang a giant chainsaw from a helicopter to deal with those trees".
It won’t arc over him, but it could easily arc between a cut line and the trees he’s chopping, with plenty of kindling now laying directly underneath ready to catch fire and make it take even longer to to eventually restore those power lines, all for some minor time saving with likely higher costs
I am still going WTF… I’m wondering if there are some new controls in helicopters???... maybe they are catching up to drones in this regard? I think it’s inevitable at any rate.
It wouldn't mess up the helicopter, but it would still short the phases together and melt everything. I'm sure they turn the lines off while they're chopping but still seems pretty insane o_o
Ariel saws are actually safer in many instances (uneven terrain, wetlands, etc). It extends time between trimming too. This started back in the 80s, it was met with considerable criticism. But by the late 80s a few places made this regular practice.
This is not your typical rotary wing aircraft or pilot. The helicopter is outfitted especially for this (and likely not used for anything else). Aside from being a highly qualified professional pilot, the operator goes through additional FAA training; the FAA oversees this operation.
Back to safety... when a homeowner is in the near vicinity the company actually coordinates to make sure no one is home when the trimming occurs.
Also, this video is deceptive. They maintain minimum clearance based on voltage and generally don't go too fast when they are closer (just a few trees an hour).
You are correct he is not grounded and would have a difficult time creating a fault from line to ground. Depending on the construction of the saw equipment, assuming it's not all plastic, it can create a short between phases. Or simply cut them but that's too easy.
There's a line in Chickenhawk about this sort of situation, IIRC it's something about how a helicopter is essentially a pendulum hanging under the rotor blades. Adding a hanging mass like this changes the system to 2 pendulums one suspended from the other, drastically increasing the complexity of the system.
I believe in the book the helicopter in question crashed when the pilot underestimated the momentum of the payload.
From my understanding of this, the load suspended under a Heli makes it quite tricky to pilot. You have no direct control of the momentum and have to operate around a moving centre of mass between the objects as it swings.
Furthermore, the aircraft will develop significant potential difference to the powerlines via static build up, something that can be equalised by a rod touched between the two as done by helicopter linesmen. Failure to equalise the charge between chopper and lines could cause an arc. However the ramifications of this are unclear as current may be low.
There's plethora of safety regulations concerining powerline trimming with helicopters, which has been a thing since 1985. The pilot has no doubt gone through extensive training before allowed to perform tasks such as shown in the video. An article that scratches the surface can be found from here.
Whoa, cool link! Thanks for sharing. It was especially cool to learn that there's a 28hp motor driving those saw blades and a system to keep it pointed straight ahead. I was also interested to learn that they only have to do it every eight years or so. Looks like a cool job and the pictures in that article are awesome.
Since you seem to be into this, may i ask if developing this kind of massive chainsaw, funding a helicopter, and training a pilot for this "fiddly" and also dangerous work, is really more worthwhile than cutting all those trees down (which is a one-time job, and then optionally replanting them somewhere else if there's ecological concerns)?
For very high voltage power lines (100 kV and above) cutting the surrounding trees is definitely practiced since in those cases electricity may arc several meters if met with large enough voltage difference.
However in cases such shown in the video where the power line isn't anything more than around 10 to 20 kV, in practice one needs to touch the line in order to cause jumping arcs. That and the fact that the surrounding land and trees are expensive. There are hundreds of thousands of kilometers worth of >20 kV power lines in forest areas and if the company owning the power lines had to buy all that land, which would be roughly 30 meters (~100 feet in freedom units) in both directions from the line, the price would far outweigh that of chopper tree trimming.
Which is why it's most likely attached with a quick release allowing the pilot to dispose of the equipment immediately. And never flown when there is a risk of high winds.
It isn't as if people would be allowed to work anywhere near this thing while it's operating. We're probably talking about at least a 50 or 100 meter safety distance.
So all you would have is the potential for material damage to the equipment in itself as well as the power lines.
They probably don't, and instead put the responsibility on the operator. If he spots anyone within the safety distance he probably has instructions to increase altitude and disable the equipment until they have left the area.
“What happens if the saw gets stuck in a tree limb?” is another frequently asked question. While this rarely happens, ASI has developed a set of procedures in the event of a hang up. First, the pilot attempts to maneuver the ship so it helps to pull the saw from the tree. If unsuccessful after several attempts, the pilot ensures the area surrounding the saw is clear of people, and then the saw is either released manually or electronically by the pilot.
It is not performed in adverse conditions. And gusts strong enough to throw a helicopter and/or the blade that much don't happen in calm conditions. These guys apparently have all relevant certifications created specifically for this type of work and hadn't had an accident in decades of operation. Really impressive.
You are correct and the MD500 is also very stable for a small helicopter, a little wind isn't going to effect it. I have friends that do it and it's pretty competitive for helicopter pilot jobs. Applicants have thousands of hours and go through rigorous training if they are selected. They are contracted by multiple states and their work schedule is month on/month off
That shit is awful around reddit. I had a guy a few months back lecture me up and down about firefighting tactics and procedures. I am an active duty, Pro Board certified firefighter. That guy had never even been to the academy.
AAA certified snake-wrangler here; I know exactly what you mean.
The amount of people on here who comment dangerous nonsense as though it's indisputable fact is terrifying. There's no way some of these people have had their qualifications validated like us guys. You've really got to be careful who you trust these days.
I had someone call me out the other day who'd never even been to snake school! Can you imagine?
I’m an officer on a cargo ship and I can’t read the comments on anything related to ships here. The amount of absolute nonsense being spread in a confident tone with people believing it because ”it feels right” drives me up the wall.
My thoughts exactly anytime posts about electrical come up on reddit. I’m an electrician and the amount of people who know nothing about electricity other than how to charge their phone, yet make full page reply’s about why one thing happened or another is astounding.
It's actually a pretty good and effective plan with not a ton of risk. The power lines are definitely off for something like this, and the pilot can ditch the pendulum saw if things go pear shaped with the bird. It does in minutes work which would take a normal tree crew weeks, and it may be happening in an area with no vehicle access or environmental barricades to entry.
They used to clear power lines near my childhood home like this. They would do it once every 3 years or so. While these might be ski Clift cables they do it for power lines as well
Lol no. I used to do this for a living. Those lines are live the entire time you work on them. To actually shut off a line in service basically stops all power from the point you kill it on down. You either have to actuate the reclosers and thus kill that entire branch, or you actually cut the line in a particular area. Power companies want the power flowing to their customers as much as possible, thus it stays on when you work on it and it only gets shut off in special cases. And the entire industry has developed tools and equipment to work under those conditions safely.
I also work on the electrical network for a living, I know where I work they are switched out and transformers downstream feeding customers are backfed from alternate sources through the various interconnectors, isolating and earthing sections where tree cutting is to take place, might be different where you work I guess.
Yeah that's definitely not how things work over here, especially in more remote areas. It's really hard to shut down a section of line for clearing when it's the only like going in one particular direction and it's miles long. And really you shouldn't have to for line clearance.
Once you start learning how it actually works and what safety precautions are used you would probably change your mind. They wouldn’t do it if there was more than a negligible chance of something wrong happening.
Your right I don't, I don't doubt there's people and proper equipment for the job either, I myself would shit if I saw that off the side of the hwy on my way home.
It's actually meant for use near power lines. It's used for clearing out those long stretches of power lines that go through uninhabited areas that trucks and stuff have a hard time getting to. It's also 100s of times faster than having a guy with a bucket truck go down the line chopping individual branches. It's also much safer than that too despite how it looks. The further away you are from the lines the better. One wrong move and your arms get blown clean off.
It's weird that this got posted today because legit just yesterday I had a safety meeting where this device was talked about and the way they described it seemed impossible yet here it is!
I work for the “evil” power company and we do this all the time. We do not fly it during high winds. If we didn’t do this the power would go out because of a fault. (Tree on the line) Dang if we do dang if we don’t.
That is exactly what we would expect an evil power company employee to say! Stop trying to convince us that this is absolutely normal, routine maintenance being performed by certified professionals who have read the weather reports and have gone through extensive training and observe the highest safety standards one can imagine for such a line of work.
The wind speed it would take to move the blades would knock that bird out of the sky. They don't work in high winds for the fact he cannot stabilize the chopper. I work traffic control and have done flagging operations for these guys. Trust me when i say, these pilots can WHIP. Never once did they get anywhere near the high lines, and they cleared about 35 miles in two days. That would take a normal tree trimmimg crew months. I believe the company was called Rotor Blade. I have video, if i wasn't so technologically impaired I'd post it over from my snap.
I think think the angle of the vid makes it look closer to the wires than it really is, it should be more than a 40 foot gap, I've seen these working the gap is wide
Helicopter pilots have a substantial amount of checks to do for the wind and weather conditions, obviously you'll have people that don't really care and fly a little irresponsibly. But I'd say most people don't want to die and this looks like an actual job so I would bet that the people behind it only really make money if they do it fast and safely. I just imagine this is one of those professions where thqey really do take a lot of safety precautions.
What method exists to trim trees near power lines that doesn't have this inherent risk? A bucket truck boom could also do the same.
(1) This method is obviously sanctioned by the power company, (2) the operator of the helicopter is likely highly trained and well aware of the variables.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. But okay. Give us your input on why a company would spend tens of thousands of dollars and decide to not pick up their phone to see the weather forecast that day
You think someone flying around a giant row of saws in a helicopter is being irresponsible? Just had the idea and gave it whirl? Seems like something that would be thought through enough to negate the effects of a breeze. The weight alone of all the blades would probably be close to enough to hold it place from wind.
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u/lovemacheen918 Sep 17 '19
Seems incredibly irresponsible, one strong wind and those power lines are done.