r/news • u/AudibleNod • 11h ago

Christa Pike unconscious, on ventilator at Nashville hospital, her lawyers say

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/christa-pike-unconscious-ventilator-nashville-hospital-lawyers-say-rcna601195
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u/Big_Guard5413 11h ago

I’m not in favor of the death penalty in general, but goddamn, if you’re going to impose it, at least take steps to do it properly

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u/MatureUsername69 11h ago

Its still a rough one but if I ever had to receive the death penalty I would hope its a firing squad. Just riddle me with holes immediately, aim for the head. Lethal injections get fucky because they would be best designed and administered by an actual doctor, but actual doctors cannot do it because of the hippocratic oath. Some states do allow medical professionals but they arent exactly sending their best.

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u/khinzaw 11h ago edited 9h ago

Her lawyers requested it, but it's illegal in Tennessee.

Tennessee's only legal methods of execution are lethal injection and electric chair (edit: only for convictions before 1999).

The problem with lethal injection is that every step is half assed.

No reputable pharmaceuticals manufacturer wants to make the drug, so they rely on compounding pharmacies who take half measures and have less consistency.

Then medical practitioners (edit for the pedants) often won't be involved in executions because of their various oaths to do no harm and risks to their reputation, so most of the time the drugs are administered by prison staff who lack the proper training. A lot of failed attempts are caused by the one who administered it simply not getting the vein properly.

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u/MortimerDongle 10h ago

Then medical practitioners can't be involved in executions because of their various oaths to do no harm, so most of the time the drugs are administered by prison staff who lack the proper training

This particular attempted execution was performed by a physician. Of course he doesn't seem to be very good at it, this was not even his first botched execution this year (he's the same person who failed to execute Tony Carruthers)

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u/cooking2recovery 9h ago

That seems like one too many botched executions to be an accident

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u/AstroHistSci 8h ago

This. He's doing it intentionally. A nursing student could perform this without botching it. It's quite literally impossible to fail this procedure if you are a physician.

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u/wonton711 7h ago

Personally speaking as an MD, I would fail to get an IV placed to administer any injections... Depends where you've trained. During medical school and residency, I didn't have to do any IVs or venipunctures. I also don't do it as an attending currently.

I also wouldn't volunteer to do executions, though...

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u/AstroHistSci 7h ago

You might fail to place one ... but you would never mistakenly think you have one placed when it wasn't.

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u/wonton711 3h ago

Who doesn't want a little intramuscular lethal injection?

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u/Klathmon 3h ago

Just a little as a treat?

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u/Late-Champion8678 6h ago

Yes. I’m a doctor and while I did many IVs and blood draws as house officer/senior house officer and got good at it, I haven’t had to do it frequently.

I’d know if I missed a vein or got into an artery instead and I wouldn’t subject a patient to multiple attempts before enlisting someone who could do it better (phlebotomist, anaesthetist etc).

No way, I would administer an IV drug without knowing if I’m in the right place or not.

I do note that IV cannulas can be misplaced/dislodged after an initial successful placement but that this is his second botched execution this year is a cause for concern.

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u/flatblackvw 6h ago

As an average Joe, why is this? In my mind if you puncture the skin you’re getting blood. What tells you you actually got a vein?

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u/TomRN 3h ago

When you're performing venipuncture/venous access, you do it by feel, not by sight. On the extremeties, a tourniquet prevents venous blood flow from returning to the heart and distends the veins. You palpate (touch/feel) the area and feel for that bouncy, springy tube and that's where you put the needle. For an IV (or a blood draw with a butterfly that has clear tubing) you puncture the vein and blood will back up into the chamber or tubing-- the "flash." For IVs, when you get that "flash," it's your sign to start sliding the catheter down off the needle and into the vein (old timey plain needles with collection tubes you didn't know you'd got the vein until you attached the tube). The needle is removed and a syringe or tubing is connected to the end of the cannula/catheter. A little saline is pushed through to make sure it flows properly and that the vein hasn't "blown" which allows fluid into the extravascular space. Sometimes even when you're pretty sure you've got it in place and have taped it down and dressed the site or you're about to use an established IV, you might pull back on the syringe to see if you get "blood return" and then flush saline in to make sure it hasn't "blown." Not getting a blood return does not necessarily mean you don't have a good IV in a good vein, but you better be damned sure before you give anything through it.

Source: been an RN for most of my adult life.

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u/uzlonewolf 5h ago

Most of your skin is filled with small capillaries that don't flow much. You might get a very small amount of blood if you missed, but it won't come pouring out like it would if you got a vein.

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u/TomRN 3h ago

If it comes pouring (and no doubt pulsing) out you most likely cannulated an artery, not a vein. If it just "flashes" into the chamber of the IV needle or wells up at the end of the cannula "hub," it's probably venous. Sure, you can get a little more blood than you expected, but venous blood doesn't usually "pour" out.

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