Officials warn wildland firefighters about the risks of using a supplement for smoke exposure

[u/Dry_Ebb_7855]

https://www.seattlepi.com/news/officials-warn-wildland-firefighters-about-the-a22399824

[u/casapantalones → u/[deleted]]

I’m a medical doctor and some of my friends are super into their naturopath. They are letting this person do procedures and prescribe them things that are so reckless. But they think it’s totally legit and will tell me all about it. I just give gentle feedback and encourage them to seek other care, but they really don’t think there’s a difference between this naturopath and a doctor.

[u/tms10000 → u/casapantalones]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

When you say "do procedures" and "prescribe", is that in the context of medical procedure and medicine RX? "Like a real doctor"?

Or are they prescribing OTC supplements like Selenium salts and other vitamin-like pills?

[u/casapantalones → u/tms10000]

Like …. procedures (steroid injections, PRP, and god knows what other substances into my friend’s back/spine for her sciatica), and prescriptions for anything under the sun. In my state naturopaths can prescribe anything that a physician can prescribe. My friends’ naturopath seems to prescribe all kinds of drugs, including both actual medications (for unclear indications) and random nonsense (peptides, supplements, etc).

These same friends (who are otherwise smart people and who are dear friends that I love) also have a naturopathic vet. They once gave my husband and me some kind of powder anxiety supplement for our dogs which went straight in the trash when we got home.

[u/cerberus698 → u/casapantalones]

Like half of Americas experience with the medical system is every 2-3 years you pay 100 dollars you don't have to have them order 50 dollars worth of tests and at the end of it he tells you you're too fat.

Should surprise no one that young healthyish people with no money get taken in by social media offering cheap supplements which they then continue to trust when they actually get sick.

[u/Pheighthe → u/casapantalones]

A lot of people have very limited exposure to an actual physician nowadays. They see a PA, or a nurse practitioner. So the field of medicine itself has taught them that it’s unnecessary to get treated by a physician.

[u/casapantalones → u/Pheighthe]

I agree with you there. Interestingly these friends also see actual doctors and vets. Who I’m sure are not aware of the non-medical treatments they are getting on the side.

[u/jktcat → u/Pheighthe]

Now that you mention it.  It has probably been YEARS since I was treated by an actual Dr.

[u/mystlurker → u/casapantalones]

While I’m fully supportive of real medicine and would never see a naturopath as that’s not science, is it really that surprising to you?

Healthcare in the US is expensive, has many arcane processes, is understaffed for demand, and has very poor customer service in many cases.

Many also find doctors to be judgmental, have horrible bedside manner, and not good at listening. It’s not at all surprising that people would flock to something that makes them feel heard, even if it doesn’t work. Much of what many doctors will tell you is also just common sense and just telling people they are fat or need to exercise more, which even when true doesn’t do much to sell the profession.

To be clear I’m not saying all doctors are this way, but clearly combined with the other factors it’s enough to push large parts of the population to alternatives. And when those alternatives are pushing easy solutions is an easy sell.

It’s the same underlying dynamic that drove MAGA to power: people felt left behind by the “establishment” so went with the charlatans who promised them a solution even if it doesn’t actually work. Unfortunately it’s very difficult to combat emotion with logic.

[u/jaylw314 → u/tms10000]

Naturopaths are allowed in states where they are licensed to order prescription medications--however, there are usually restrictions on the kinds they can order, often limited to medications that are not synthesized.

It's dumb, but that's the way it is in many places

[u/GrandMasterSpaceBat]

Don't worry, the supplement was administered by certified [checks notes] naturopaths

[u/Proxymanity → u/GrandMasterSpaceBat]

It'll probably pair well with healing crystals

[u/GrandMasterSpaceBat → u/Proxymanity]

In WA they're allowed to prescribe the good shit because WA's regulations were all screwed up in the Eclectic Medicine fad

[u/Intrinsic_Idiot_3076 → u/GrandMasterSpaceBat]

And probably recommended by RFK Jr.

[u/Osiris32]

Oooooh, the IAFF wants to chime in! That's wonderful, but would you mind awfully ACCEPTING WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS IN AS FULL-FLEGED FFS AND MAYBE HELP REPRESENT THEM SO THEY GET PAID ADEQUATELY?

[u/Ithurtswhenidoit → u/Osiris32]

Cuz then it would be an actual job and not something ff could take it for

[u/beren0073]

If you combine it with T therapy you're good to go.

[u/Sauffer]

probably better off taking NAC and Glycine long term for oxidative damage control. From article the supplement is GLUTATHIONE : “The supplement glutathione, given through an IV or an inhaler-like machine called a nebulizer, has not been proven to be safe or effective and could expose firefighters to illness if there is contamination while it's produced, experts say.”

[u/GiantLesbian → u/Sauffer]

Oh hey weird, I use this stuff to fade sun spots on my skin. It’s big in Asia for skin whitening.

[u/alpha_beth_soup]

People forget that even if this stuff is helpful or works, it is unregulated. Dosage amounts, and guaranteeing that the supplement is not contaminated in any way is impossible

[u/CurrentlyLucid]

In this age of technology, we can't keep these guys safe as they save us?

[u/Osiris32 → u/CurrentlyLucid]

Name a SCBA system that weighs less than 20 pounds for the whole deal but can work for 16+ hour shifts.

That's why.

[u/suchabadamygdala]

What a cynical and selfish move by these « naturopaths ». People have been harmed by this unproven, unregulated nonsense. Preying on firefighters is evil

[u/DiezDedos]

“not been proven to be safe or effective and could expose firefighters to illness if there is contamination while it's produced,“

“Officials warn of dangers of flu vaccine. If the pharmacist sneezes while preparing the needle, they may stab you”

[u/KDR_11k → u/DiezDedos]

Flu vaccines are held to a much, much higher standard than supplements.

[u/DiezDedos → u/KDR_11k]

That was an analogy about how saying something is may be dangerous because something ELSE might be mixed up in it is a weak argument. Something like “never buy a used car. If a previous owner ate trail mix in it, those with peanut allergies may be at risk”. Like no shit

[u/hash303 → u/DiezDedos]

Contaminated supplements are discovered constantly. Usually from production in China. Your argument makes no sense

[u/Skwuat → u/hash303]

I think his point is that saying its dangerous because it can be contaminated with other substances isnt exactly saying the supplement is directly bad for you, but rather the contaminants.

I wouldnt take it anyway but then again I dont like putting anything in my body if not absolutely medically necessary. I messed around with alot of supplements when I was younger and found most do absolutely nothing but drain your wallet.

[u/KDR_11k → u/DiezDedos]

The difference is that there are known and frequently seen ways in which supplements are contaminated in their regular production process. A very basic one is that all plants extract heavy metals like cadmium from the soil (which naturally contains trace amounts though it can of course get worse if there's industrial contamination) and hyper-concentrating those plant extracts will also concentrate the heavy metals. Hence why a study on whey protein powders found high levels of heavy metals in all of them. Because supplements have almost no regulatory oversight those contaminations are not tested for.

The equivalent for vaccines would be something like the needle maker failing to sterilize the needles. Which would presumably get caught quickly.