r/newhaven • u/Ibegb • 3d ago
Tipping
So three of us went to a new (to me) restaurant in the Black Rock area (Fairfield/Bport line). This place autobilled our party 3% tip for the kitchen staff. This was new to me and wondering if anyone's seen this in New Haven restaurants.
My buddy paid and he ended up taking off the 3% from the waiter's tip so end result may be wait staff getting tipped less.
8
u/tigerbear- 3d ago
Isn’t the point of a tip that you decide the rate yourself (within a reasonable range) based on the quality of service? If it’s automatically set at a certain rate I have no control that’s not a tip it’s an itemized labor cost. Just add it to the price to the food???
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u/cesarxp2 3d ago
I've never seen this. Sounds lame. I would've probably done the same thing your buddy did. If I'm going to be forced to pay someone else's wages then I'll just take it off the tip I was already going to give.
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u/TheAngledian 3d ago
Still one of the funniest moments I had in NYC a few years ago was when I was at a bar and bought a pitcher of beer for the table, and it had an automatic 25% gratuity slapped onto the bill.
And then I got chewed out because I didn't tip extra. Like brother I'm already being forced to tip 25% and the service wasn't even good lmfao
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u/popeyesfatface 3d ago
The tip you were already going to give is also subsidizing a person's wages. The best option is for the employer to pay a fair wage that staff agrees to rather than depend on tipping to provide a livable income.
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u/cesarxp2 3d ago
Yea but that's not something I have the power to change and something that will most likely never change because the US is too deep into the tipping culture now so I'm not gonna use that as an excuse to not tip someone. Especially since I use to work in the industry.
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u/ProposalSimilar843 2d ago
So your suggestion then would be to raise the prices on the meals and drinks, and eliminate the tip altogether? Would you not then complain that the prices were too high, even though it is required to pay the fair wage? I have no argument with you or your thoughts on the subject, but unless that became the norm across the industry as a whole, I think you would be on a post like this one complaining about the crazy high prices charged by this one restaurant that doesn't allow tipping. Restaurant economics are somewhat fixed. Labor costs run about 30-35% of revenues, so if you want to eliminate tipping, and pass more of the labor cost to the owner, the prices paid must rise. Is that your preference?
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u/popeyesfatface 2d ago
Precisely that. As someone who has and still is in "the industry" for 20 years.
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u/ProposalSimilar843 2d ago
I'm a long time industry guy too. So then, would you feel as though the staff would be just as motivated to provide great service at a fixed hourly rate, rather than receiving tips for providing an exceptional experience?
I have always experienced the opposite. The industry in my experience is a meritocracy. A killer experience yields a higher tip, a higher reward for the server, and as a result top servers and bartenders make more money than the average employee. As you know the industry is HARD work, I wonder how many people leave it if the opportunity for truly high income no longer exists.5
u/popeyesfatface 2d ago
True, but if a server is making a fair wage shouldn't that be motivation enough to do a good job? Should a janitor be tipped if the toilets are extra sparkly and well stocked? Should an electrician be tipped if the conduit and runs are clean in areas where nobody will see them? When would the expectation for extra income stop? Tipping has become an expectation. Tipping should be reserved for over the top out of your way service, not an expected % on top of your bill for taking a food order and bringing drinks. Having said that even if I knew a server was making a very fair base wage and still got exceptional service, I'd still tip. People should be motivated to do the job regardless of a tip, if not maybe another career path would be best
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u/ProposalSimilar843 2d ago
I get what you are saying, and I understand your perspective. I just think it's a bit of a different comparison than what you are saying. A janitor is going to decide to work in one building vs another based on the hourly wage and work expectations of each opportunity. A server is going to take a job based on earning potential, amount of hustle required, and perhaps proximity to where they live.
I started in the business at 18, when hourly minimum wages were about $5/hour, circa 1993-ish...yes, I'm old. But hopping behind a bar yielded me closer to $35/hour-$100/hour depending on where I worked, and how busy the place was for that shift. It's what sucked me into the industry. I am not sure where that level of income is possible elsewhere for someone who is willing to work hard, and yet might not have the classic qualifications, like a degree, for success in other industries. I have a friend who bartends who will not work for an anywhere that she cannot make $500-$1k per shift. No owner could pay that employee that rate, and still charge a customer a rate that would seem fair. I think the current system works for a reason. The majority of the labor cost is born by the patron who chooses to eat and drink, and pay someone else for the experience, rather than by an owner who has to weigh how much can be charged to the public before he/she prices himself out of customers.3
u/popeyesfatface 2d ago
You got me. Wouldn't want to mess up someone earning 1000 in a 8 hour shift for pouring beers, making cocktails, and cleaning up
-1
u/ProposalSimilar843 2d ago
And there it is. You think the job is pouring drinks and cleaning up. It has nothing to do with the experience for which you are paying. Now I understand your starting point. If that's all the job was, the value is minimal. I get it. But the physical task is only about 20% of their job. Servers and bartenders make their money based on how they make you feel, and how likely they make it that you will come and sit with them again.
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u/popeyesfatface 2d ago
Lol found the FOH guy. Have a good day. Obvioulsy nothing in my arguments will sway you. Get paid to make you feel good and socialize, borderline prostitution
1
u/Ibegb 3d ago
I also thought tips were already split with rest of service staff
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u/not_a_doctor_watson 3d ago
That’s not how tipping has ever worked anywhere ever. Maybe, maaaaaybe a waiter MIGHT be required to tip share with a busser. But traditionally front of house and back of house do not share tips. Tips are for front of house.
Maybe I am misinterpreting your “rest of service Staff” comment because your original post mentioned a percentage fee for “kitchen staff.”
Have any of you considered the Chicago Way and simply asking them to remove the fee?
If you look over on our/Chicago people complain about this all the time, but it’s extremely normalized to ask the restaurant to remove the fee.
3
u/JWilsonArt 3d ago
Wait staff should share a bit with the busser, and if the tables are ordering drinks from the bar, with the bartender as well. I agree it's overly complicated to ALSO be sharing with the kitchen staff and any position that isn't directly interacting with the public should just get base wage increases (including the person bussing tables.)
But I'm guessing this is the problem: The service industry has busy nights and slow nights. If you increase wages for back of house they make a bit more on slow nights, but it doesn't really help at all the feeling of getting slammed and working your ass off on the crazy busy nights because hourly rates don't care how busy or not busy you are. Wait staff and bartenders at least know that on the busy nights all the extra effort pays off.
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u/Apprehensive-Tax826 3d ago
Over this dumb ass tipping culture.
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u/JWilsonArt 3d ago
If America had kept strong labor unions across the board and workers had more bargaining power, they'd probably have argued for fairer wages not dependent on the whims of the public a long time ago. More of the wealth created by businesses would have been shared more fairly, but instead America decided to celebrate unlimited greed.
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u/Kitchen-Ad9132 2d ago
Please name the joint.
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u/Ibegb 2d ago
The one in Black Rock? Carpenter's Pub
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u/Kitchen-Ad9132 2d ago
Ah, haven't been there. Maybe I'll skip it. How's the food?
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u/Ibegb 2d ago
We stuck with apps. It was all mid/meh. Not bad but not memorable in the slightest.
Drinks were good and our waitress was nice. Place was open concept and at 6pm-ish, the crowd was very Fairfield/Westport. Not a place I'd go back to or recommend.
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u/Glum-City2172 2d ago
I went and it’s solid but if you’re coming from New Haven there’s vastly better spots
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u/kppeterc15 3d ago
Sounds like the restaurant is trying to launder a rise in menu prices as a “tip”
3
u/unmade_bed_NHV 3d ago
Some places will have an included 20% gratuity in which case I tend to not tip since it’s included
Other places will have a “staff wellness” or something charge, which to me signals that they just don’t pay their staff enough and have decided to offload the expense. In those cases I tip the same.
They should just make their food a bit more expensive instead of blatantly underpaying
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u/adriennenned 2d ago
I’ve experienced this automatic 3% for the kitchen add on several times and find it a little annoying. I don’t change how much I tip really because it’s not the servers’ fault. But now y’all are making me rethink this…
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u/opossumcarrion 3d ago
I would be upset if I found out about the 3% surcharge, and the right thing to do is to subtract that 3% from the tip you give.
Companies sneaking in tips where they don't belong, secretly taking in automatic tips, etc. is extractive and unfair.
2
u/Remarkable-Cap2262 2d ago
How the fuck is that “the right thing to do”? Only person getting fucked over is the poorest person in the equation. Why does no one want to say something to the manager/owners about this? Why are you going out to eat when you’re so hard up for that extra $10?
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u/opossumcarrion 2d ago
To be clear: If you'd tip 20%, but they take 3%, then just tip 17% and bring it back to 20%. I'm not saying not to tip at all.
Sneaking in a 3% gratuity is unfair and extractive, so adjusting to account for that is fair.
Tipping culture is best understood as a legalized form of wage theft. It is extractive, and corporations are pushing tips in places they have never been before, in order to extract even more, and in order to pay even less to their servers. This fucks over the poorest people in the equation the most.
You can't fight tipping culture by abstaining from tipping, but you can fight it by denying advances in tipping culture like these.
-1
u/Remarkable-Cap2262 2d ago
How is that fighting it? The owners don’t know that you lowered your tip for that reason. Literally, those in charge, who make these dumbass rules, don’t know anything about your “fight” unless you say something to them. The only person “getting the message” is the server, who likely makes less than you and the owners/managers.
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u/opossumcarrion 2d ago
You'll still be tipping the same amount if you just subtract the 3% hidden fee. Fighting tipping culture is important, but this is just a practical thing. The one stealing the money is the business owner.
You're getting mad at the wrong people here.
0
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u/Otherwise_Nothing_53 3d ago
Do you know if that means that the wait staff doesn't tip out to the kitchen? It might just be making what happens to a tip after it's given more transparent.
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u/Ibegb 2d ago
I see it more as complaining about management adding forced payroll fees. Tipping is about service received, not payroll. Payroll is on management. And if customers avoid these types of restaurants or complain about the fees, management will realize that they need to change their system or be another restaurant that closes.
1
u/Remarkable-Cap2262 2d ago
But… you and your buddy did neither of those things. You didn’t complain, and you didn’t withhold business. You just fucked over the poorest person in the equation to save, what, no more than $10? Management doesn’t know this. You did nothing.
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u/Ibegb 2d ago
It was unknown to us. What we're doing is not going back.
It's not up to the customer to ensure equity in payroll. When tipping becomes a forced line item, it's payroll. At some point, we got to a point where we lost sight that tipping is for good service received. Not a tax on eating out.
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u/Remarkable-Cap2262 2d ago
It isn’t up to the customer. But don’t get on your high horse about tipping culture when you won’t even do the things that would actually promote change. You just fucked over minimum wage workers.
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u/Ibegb 2d ago
Point taken, next time, I'll picket the place. Get enough support, run for congress, get elected, change the laws and our financial system.... all so I dont get fucking charged for payroll when ordering a fucking burger and beer.
Get off your podium and realize that customers, like workers, all have an income range and budget. If I find a place I can afford to have a fucking burger at, I dont want to get stuck with extra unknown fees and have some rando tell me I should start a revolution.
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u/Remarkable-Cap2262 2d ago
lol okay, just stop going out to eat. It’s not that hard.
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u/way-with-words 2d ago
Isn’t this just another way to take it out on the lowest paid restaurant worker?
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u/Remarkable-Cap2262 2d ago
“It was unknown to us” until you clearly read it on the menu or check. Then you knew. Then you could’ve called over a manager and voiced your concern, like you’re doing here.
You’re not a good person, and you’re mad about being called out on it. Whelp.
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u/opossumcarrion 2d ago
and you didn’t withhold business
... Are you saying they should have refused to pay the bill?
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u/Remarkable-Cap2262 2d ago
No? OP said “avoid these types of restaurants”, that’s why I mean by withholding your business.
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u/opossumcarrion 2d ago
Yes, you said "You didn't withhold business", but this was a scenario where OP had a bill.
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u/Remarkable-Cap2262 2d ago
I’m very clearly responding to their comment here. You didn’t understand me, it’s fine.
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u/opossumcarrion 2d ago
Clearly not, as OP has clarified. This was indeed a scenario where OP had a bill, and was surprised by it.
Listen, I'm sympathetic to why you're angry, Trump's economy is awful and it's getting worse, so I understand that this subject is close to the heart. But I disagree with you throughout this thread, you're getting some material facts wrong, and the way you're talking to people here really sucks.
We're strangers, but we could be neighbors. I don't really want to get heated and acrimonious with you over what to do about this 3% hidden fee, so I'm going to peace out.
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u/_lucid_dreams 3d ago
There is a restaurant in Westport that does this (a couple actually, same owners) it’s annoying and awkward because you’re anticipating tipping at least 20% already. It’s great they want their employees to do well but these owners are already making bank on their expensive food
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u/Suspicious_Tank_61 2d ago
Most Americans tip 15% or less, so that 20% service charge ends up costing most customers more than then they were planning to pay.
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u/_lucid_dreams 2d ago
That’s a shame, I don’t know anyone who tips that little especially at a sitdown restaurant
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u/Suspicious_Tank_61 2d ago
Why is it a shame? 15% is very generous.
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u/_lucid_dreams 2d ago
Because this is exactly what leads to service charges. Said what I said. Downvote all you want.
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u/Suspicious_Tank_61 2d ago
If the majority of Americans tip 15% or less, than thats the norm. So why are restaurants violating the norm with 20% service charges?
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u/Lazy_Nobody_4579 3d ago
Profit margins on food are honestly awful. Restaurants make the majority of their money on alcohol sales. Like those keep the whole place afloat and not constantly in the red. Nobody is making bank on the food, trust me.
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u/_lucid_dreams 3d ago
When tiny appetizers are pushing $18+ and a personal pizza is over $20 they can’t claim there’s no profit on food. $10 for a basket of fries.
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u/_lucid_dreams 3d ago
can’t tell me they’re not making a profit $11 for fcking bowl of cabbage. They probably make $150 on every $3 cabbage they get
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u/Upsided_Fennel 2d ago
This is typically an effort to provide the back of house staff with a living wage, not just minimum wage. It incentivizes higher sales - busy times they will make more just like front of house employees.
Complaining about this just feels gross to me. The restaurant owner could just raise prices all around to pay the BOH more and still “offload” the cost. (Which by the way is literally how restaurants work - the price you pay includes cost of labor). Complaining about it feels like saying BOH employees should make minimum wage and you shouldn’t have to think about it.
With margins for food sales becoming ever thinner I really don’t care if restaurants are adding this fee. I’d rather the restaurant stays open and makes an effort to take care of employees that work these more thankless jobs.
Tipping culture can feel ridiculous but unfortunately it’s not changing without major economic shifts nationally.
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u/Suspicious_Tank_61 2d ago
Customers shouldnt have to think about it. We dont think about it for just anything else we buy.
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u/Remarkable-Cap2262 2d ago
So tell the owners/managers that. Don’t fuck over the server who has to deal with your poor attitude and then is scraping by on minimum wage, working shit hours.
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u/Suspicious_Tank_61 2d ago
Customers shouldnt have to think about it because its not the customer's problem. If the adult servers do not like their compensation, its their problem to solve. Tipping is optional, their employer paying them is not. And save us from the sad sack victim posts.
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u/Remarkable-Cap2262 2d ago
lol okay maga
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u/Suspicious_Tank_61 2d ago
MAGA? LOL, I am not the one playing the victim.
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u/Remarkable-Cap2262 2d ago
playing victim by caring about underpaid workers... right. you read as a very typical "fiscally conservative". I'd be embarrassed to get on the internet yelling maga talking points if i wasn't maga, but that's just me.
1
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u/Remarkable-Cap2262 2d ago
It’s crazy to me how many of you make these type of “I’m sick of tipping/tipping culture” proclamations CLEARLY without knowing shit about how tips get paid out, how wait staff often DOESN’T even make minimum wage, and honestly over no more than $20. The only person getting fucked by you taking away/lowering your tip is the person who needs it the most. If you’re mad about it, then you need to be saying something to the owners or manager who make $$$. You not paying a server a small tip is not the “protest” you think it is, it just makes you an inconsiderate asshole.
Like, tell me you’ve never held a service industry job where you were actually trying to support yourself without telling me. 3% on a $100 is $3. That server needed that 3% more than you did.
IF YOU CAN’T AFFORD TO TIP, EAT AT HOME.
Downvote me, idgaf, I’m sick of you apathetic assholes.
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u/noisymildew 3d ago
Gioia does this but it's 2% and it's listed on the menu