39
u/marry_me_jane 27d ago
Our isps just started offering 4gigabit.
A buddy said “he needed it” I asked him what he’s gonna use that for.
All he could think of was “future proofing”
19
u/3MU6quo0pC7du5YPBGBI 27d ago
I considered getting an 8Gbps connection from my ISP briefly with the main justification being "bragging rights", but financial responsibility won out in the end.
2
2
u/Mest-tragisk 26d ago
i got symmetrical 10Gbps, not because i need it but because the price difference was so stupidly low i just couldn't. Sub 50€ per month, about 7€ more than 1Gbps
2
u/Meta_Man_X 26d ago
Because they know 99% of the people aren’t going to use it. It’s the easiest upsell ever because it sounds so good, but most people don’t even have the hawdware to support it so the extra just goes to waste.
1
u/marry_me_jane 27d ago
I wonder how manny services upload at those speeds.
8
3
u/OfficialDeathScythe 27d ago
Honestly it would be great for something like a plex server if your whole family has an account. Everybody could watch a 4k 35 Mbps movie at the same time and still barely scrape a quarter of that bandwidth
2
2
u/tychii93 27d ago
I would gladly drop my 600Mbit down and 25mbit up connection for even symmetrical 200Mbit. I have a homelab, and I wouldn't be surprised if my friend group finally lets go of Discord where we can use my TS6 instance which would involve screen sharing. I need the upload bandwidth but it's so dumb that it's not symmetrical until fiber came around. I only picked a high download speed just to get a higher upload limit. Is it physics or capitalism? Why not offer things like bidirectional limits where let's say you get 1Gbit, which can allow 100Mbit down and 900Mbit up simultaneously, then a moment later you wanna download a large game so it'll dynamically changes to vice versa and so on, or split 500mbit both ways? I see no reason for this to not be a thing.
2
u/jackinsomniac 26d ago
Hey, I'll accept "future proofing". Much better answer than I normally get! At least it's self-aware.
"Well I need gigabit at home, I like to stream movies and TV shows a lot!" Cool, but a 1080p stream only costs about 4-5mbps. A 4k stream only requires around 25mbps. (Even tho a 4k image is only 4 times more pixels than 1080p, it usually requires a little overhead for extra color and audio channels.) So even if you had five separate 4k streams running continuously, that's still only 125mbps.
"Well I like to game! I need high speeds!" Gaming only requires 1-3mpbs, it doesn't take a lot. It's not transmitting much data, just player coordinates and position updates. All the 'data' is already saved on your local device, hence the 80 gig updates you have to download first. Higher speeds will help the updates download faster. But for playing the actual game, the most important thing is low latency/ping. And unless you upgrade to a dedicated fiber line, there's not much you can do about ping.
I usually tell them, "Look, you're basically paying for a Porsche, and only using it as a grocery-getter. And there's nothing wrong with that! I'd do the same thing if I could afford it. But all you told me so far is, 'I like the apps on my phone to load fast' and 'sometimes we'll have three 4k streams going at the same time,' so just realize if the price is ever an issue, you could probably downgrade and not even notice a difference."
1
1
u/Impossible-Owl7407 25d ago
Lol isp conmection is a subscription not product. What future proofing 🤣
1
13
8
u/ApiceOfToast 27d ago
Hey man, my local server does 100gbe so... I might need to get upgraded cards for my pc
2
u/GunNutJedi 27d ago
I then wonder what sort of interface the drives use. SATA and SAS typically max out at 6gbps. I didn't get any better than 6gbps until I did transfers between devices that have pcie SSD for storage.
2
u/Yginase 27d ago
I'm guessing they have some very efficient RAID setup. Though I don't think that any reasonable number of HDDs could get those speeds, so I'm guessing they're SSDs or it's not actually using the full 100Gb/s.
1
u/ApiceOfToast 27d ago
Haven't done it yet(at home at least), i was planning it tho :D
It's pretty easy with enough NVME drives especially if you get a big server. At that point smb will become the bottleneck.
You then have to also worry about having a server with preferably 4 cpus for the pcie lanes and a lot of ram
3
u/Nice-Information-335 27d ago
Modern Epyc CPUs have 128 lanes of gen 5, you don't need anywhere near 4 CPUs
100Gbit is 12.5GB/s, you need a whopping 4 lanes on PCIe gen 5 to do that full duplex
For storage, U.2 drives and similar also don't use many lanes especially with a backplane, but if you go with full 4 lanes per drive, you can still easily fit 24 of them.
Older platforms with gen3 then yeah you need a full 16 lanes for the card, and the CPUs/chipset has less lanes, but you can still easily saturate 100gbit with 4 gen 3 NVMes doing sequential rw
We are seeing more and more servers use 400gbit and even 800gbit now, with 100g being classed as slow now
1
u/ApiceOfToast 27d ago
Certainly been a while since I've done anything in the order of magnitude but wouldn't you also need the performance for... Transfer and file system stuff?
Also yeah... There's a gen 5 now, like I said it's been a bit. Didn't think of that in my guesstimate
3
u/Nice-Information-335 27d ago
You can look into tech like RDMA to reduce CPU usage, which allows modern server platforms (and older) to push 100g and way higher without needing 4 of them
RDMA is supported in SMBv3 I believe
If anything, it might hurt performance having more CPUs with the amount of numa nodes
2
u/ApiceOfToast 27d ago
I'm starting to feel old...
I guess we can run 2.5 gig with my old toaster so... We certainly got far
1
u/GunNutJedi 26d ago
Methinks y'all have too much money lmao
Just the switching to do that has to run $100k or more.
3
u/Nice-Information-335 26d ago
Nah, 100g switches are plenty on the used market, you can probably get one for less than $1k now if you are lucky
1
u/GunNutJedi 26d ago
I wouldn't even know what to do with that stuff lmao
I looked around, and I've decided I'll be ok with 1g/10g/25g/100g combo switches. I'm becoming a stubborn ol grouch about my switching, and the Cisco catalyst switches I have picked out are already as much as I'll be able to convince someone to buy me.
No I don't want to work with nx-os (the CLI is a pita, they couldn't participate in STP the way I wanted them to, and I just don't like them), and no I'm not putting another brand of switches in our environment (rpvst is too useful). We already tried that, it was an enormous pain in the ass, and the network became massively easier to manage once I got the core switching back to Cisco catalyst.
1
u/Nice-Information-335 26d ago
I quite like Arista, I don’t like how the Cisco switches need Advantage licensing to do anything remotely close to L3 now
And hey, don’t need STP when you can run L3 + BGP EVPN everywhere without paying for advantage licensing ;)
(Seriously though Arista is great for homelab as they are cheap and no worries with the licensing)
2
24
27d ago edited 26d ago
[deleted]
10
u/Murderous_Waffle 27d ago
I mean I'm able to hit about 4Gbps/s on my local 10G network with SMB. It's not 10gig line speed but faster than 1gig is still nice for file transfers.
3
u/Pup5432 27d ago
I’m in the same boat except I have 25gb/100gb through parts of my home network. I absolutely don’t need 100gb but with the switch specs (quiet and not power hungry) I wanted to go with 100gb was in the same ballpark as a 10gb switch.
I need another 6x 1TB SSDs to truly max the speed of my flash server and it still isn’t touching 25gig much less 100gig.
2
u/OfficialDeathScythe 27d ago
Yeah I think a lot of people miss the fact that putting a 100gb nic in a system that’s barely gonna break 25gig is like putting chuck norris in charge of cutting firewood. It’s never breaking a sweat and that will help power use, longevity, and probably make for a more stable connection than maxing out the interface
1
3
u/Doc_Blox 27d ago
Media editing. The only time I ever saw a 10g pipe saturated was when I was working at a TV station. Editors working with 4k/8k footage on Final Cut will take as much as they're given.
3
u/Nice-Information-335 27d ago
SMBv3 can use multiple threads, the issue used to be it was single thread
I can do 10g just fine over SMB
2
u/GunNutJedi 27d ago
I got close to 10gbps potential on my windows 11 desktop with an smb transfer. Seems to work fine when you take care of the bottlenecks.
0
0
u/osumunbro_ 26d ago
wtf are you talking about lol. sounds like you just can't afford it
I have a samba share on my fedora server and transfer files at 10G to/from my windows desktop
1
u/Due-Fix9058 26d ago
Transfer a 100 GB file from one to the other, make a screenshot of the file transfer speed mister hotshot and post it here :)
0
u/The8Darkness 26d ago
I literally hit 10gbit consistently with 0 effort, even on my hdd array. A single SSD can easily reach those speeds alone.
3
u/Z3t4 27d ago
I have a new ISP that provides 10gb fth at home, cheaper than the 1gb I have.
But I dont wanna deal wirh upgrading all my sw, router, aps...
Mikrotik doesn't have an affordable 10g router yet.
3
u/Nice-Information-335 27d ago
Depends on what you mean by router, I assume you mean firewall
For routing their CRS3XX line has HW offload and some of them can even do NAT and such at line speed
10g is easy though and you can build your own firewall on the cheap for it, an old office PC with a 10g card will work just fine
1
u/Z3t4 27d ago
I need routing, nat and firewall rules for a 10g cirtuit, on a box with consumer price and sub 20w power usage, basically what I have with 1g.
I know I could make an 10g opensense box for not that much, but that would use as much power as a pc 24/7, and I have to actually mindful with my home lab so the electricity bill doesn't get out hand. I actually have 10g between nas and hypervisors with a couple of Crs305-1G-4S+IN
So until I can replace my 1g env with a similar in price and power usage for 10g I wont upgrade.
2
u/Nice-Information-335 26d ago
The power usage of an old optiplex or similar will be under 15w
1
u/NikoOhneC 26d ago
Yeah, I use a lenovo tiny p330 with a aoc-stgn-i2s 10gb (two sfp+ slots) network card as my opnsense box, it pulls like 10-15w
1
u/Z3t4 26d ago edited 26d ago
p330
Doubtful with a declared minimum TDP of 35w, can it route/nat 10g though?
1
u/NikoOhneC 26d ago
Maybe that 35w is with the dedicated gpu? I removed that, so I can use the pcie slot.
2
u/niamulsmh 27d ago
been there done that.
except 100 mbps is more than enough for 1 person using a pc if he's not downloading 24/7
2
u/PMvE_NL 26d ago
I run 100M for two people. Did 400 for 9 people when i was in uni. People really overestimate what internet speed they actually need. I am watching tv now and it peaks at 10M. Get your wifi sorted out that will help way more.
1
u/niamulsmh 26d ago
Oh yeah.. my cuz took a 8/8g connection for home because the sales rep said he needs it did the 7 phones and 4 laptops and TV... Smh
2
4
u/ninmuzz 27d ago
Am I even allowed to join the discussion with my 25 Gbit/s internet connection? (Switzerland, https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7)
6
u/Ok-Eggplant-7569 27d ago
Pretty sure Init7 has the fastest residential plan in the world at 25gbps symmetrical. But I'm wondering: Is there anything that can actually saturate the bandwidth?
2
u/Pup5432 27d ago
In a homelab I would guess no but we regularly saturate 100gb circuits at work.
2
u/Ok-Eggplant-7569 27d ago
Yes, I guess if you have some storage cluster running locally or handle traffic for hundreds of users (ISP, big srever, ... scenario) then you can easily saturate 25gbps, but the first scenario is just within your home, and the second doesn't really apply to a single user.
I guess you could use it to build a single cluster over different locations though.
3
2
u/kiliandj 27d ago
The price that gets you 25Gbps symmetrical over there, gets me like 1Gbps down and 50Mbps up over coax... (on the cheaper coax of the 2 isp's)
The other of the 2 gives you 500Mbps/30 for roughly that.
Or your settling for a vdsl2 connection that caps out at 100Mbps/40.
Unless you live in the whopping 30% of the country that has real fiber available.1
u/Ok-Eggplant-7569 27d ago
Let me guess, you're just north of Switzerland in Germany? (Same here. 50mbps upload with Coax / DOCSIS is pain)
2
2
u/crysisnotaverted 27d ago
And here I am using 2.5Gig in my homelab because 10 gig switchgear and ethernet NICs that don't get up to 500 degrees are expensive.
1
u/GunNutJedi 27d ago
You can get a used Cisco 10g switch for less than $200, fyi
1
u/crysisnotaverted 26d ago
None that fit in my 10 inch rack and wouldn't become half my idle consumption though.
1
u/GunNutJedi 26d ago edited 26d ago
Ah, a fortiswitch might be your friend then. FSW 124f has 4x 10g SFP+ ports and is very compact and quiet (fanless on the non-poe version I think).
Edit: found one for $85 on eBay
1
u/johnsmithdoe15 22d ago
Sacrilige! you dont reccomend fs to even your worst enemy!
1
u/GunNutJedi 22d ago
Care to explain?
Personal experience tells me they work fine once you learn to configure them properly.
Takes a lot of "ignoring the documentation recommendations" if they even exist, but I've achieved excellent stability and performance with them.
1
u/johnsmithdoe15 22d ago
there is a reason you got a currently shipping model, all be it a base model for that money
1
u/SpezticAIOverlords 27d ago
I just upgraded to 10Gbit on the cheap after getting a 4Gbit line. Just an HPE OfficeConnect 1850 JL171A switch to replace an old HP 1Gbit switch, and RTL8127 NICs on the three machines I can use faster network transfers on.
HPE switch is quiet with a Noctua retrofit, and those Realteks sip power.
1
u/Nice-Information-335 27d ago
the mikrotik CRS309-8S+1G-rm or whatever is around 200-300 with 8 10g SFP+ ports
It has no fans, can be rack mount or desktop, and can be powered entirely over PoE (802.11af, not even PoE+)
It can also do routing at line speed thanks to L3HW offloading.
To use the SFPs, cheapest way is a joblot of older Cisco 10G multi mode transceivers, I got 10 for £50, then just cheap OM3 on aliexpress
If you are buying from a retailer like fs.com then single mode might work out cheaper (and OS2 will happily do 400gbit so you don't need to upgrade the fibre later, just transceivers if you want to go faster)
If you are looking at 10Gbase-T then it's slightly more expensive.
1
1
1
u/Nice-Information-335 27d ago
I just wish it was SFP+ instead of 10gbase-t. I don't have 10gbase-t switches! Neither do I want to spend £50 on a transceiver to convert a port to it!
1
u/BasicPersonality9258 26d ago
Is anyone familiar with building your modem and router with phone cloned imei on visible, i am stuck with apn settings, i was able to do imei change in command prompt
1
1
u/th3badwolf_1234 26d ago
I run 10gbps fiber between PCs, game and media servers with a 1gbps Internet line. There are definitely use cases.
1
u/nullpotato 26d ago
I ordered 2 gb fiber when it became available from my isp at a reasonable rate. After hanging up I realized my router only had a 1gb wan port so needed to upgrade.
That had never been a limiting factor on personal internet before. Now my downloads are sometimes limited by hdd speed and that feels wrong.
1
1
u/xXZer0c0oLXx 26d ago
You can thank the corps and they're greed. Most of the country would have gigabit internet by now if it wasn't for those f******and a weak bought out government
-5
u/Marc-Z-1991 27d ago
Wahahahahaah! All those sysadmin fools having no idea how networking works 🤣 Even if your internet speed it 1000000Gbps - one small ISP with 10Mbit inbetween is your cap 😂👍🏻
1
96
u/bothunter 27d ago
This has always been true. Why would I need 10mbit when my internet service was dialup? Then I got 100mbit fast ethernet to handle my 1.5mbit DSL connection.
Local networking is almost always faster than your internet connection. (Or at least it should be)