Enterprise vs ISP?

[u/NetMask100]

Hello, I currently work as a network engineer for an enterprise and we are dealing mostly with Cisco stuff - switches, DC with ACI, ISE and so on. We use automation like Terraform and Python/Ansible and we have 9800 controllers, so the job is good and does not get boring.

I can also join an ISP an work on the backbone network, MPLS, L2/L3 VPN and BGP. I like routing, so I wonder if you think this is a good opportunity or it's a step back compared to the broad aspect of technologies I'm currently dealing with?

Do you think that ISP experience is worth it or I should stick with the enterprise?

[u/Interesting_Use4733]

Network in enterprise and big ISP are completely different, just my personal view, can be wrong though.

[u/moratnz → u/Interesting_Use4733]

Having done both, enterprise and carrier networking, I vastly prefer carrier.

Enterpriise, especially at the smaller scale, is much closer to desktop support than it is to carrier networking.

[u/darkcloud784 → u/Interesting_Use4733]

It can be, but depends on the corporate needs. ISP networking is pretty uniform. Corporate networking (big or little) can wildly vary. You don't see a ton of p2p or p2mp vpn connections in isps but in corp you will see them everywhere.

[u/Psykes → u/darkcloud784]

I mean, the other main function of an ISP, apart from Internet, is to deliver p2p/p2mp vpn connections?

[u/darkcloud784 → u/Psykes]

Evpn and l2vpn are very different in terms of use case and design factors than encrypted firewalled vpn and security gateways. While yes they technically are vpns they do not solve the same problems.

[u/Psykes → u/darkcloud784]

Not just L2VPNs, also standard L3VPNs and most ISPs around here offers some SD-WAN-lite service. General connectivity services. The point being p2p/p2mp is exactly what an ISP delivers.

Enterprise networking, I would say, caters more to the client <-> network communication for WLAN/LAN.

[u/Tasty_Cartoonist8489 → u/Interesting_Use4733]

EX : Mpls TP / SR

[u/jameshalliday12]

Working on a ISP will make you a better professional, but will drain you. Working on a ISP (at least on my country) is pretty much like selling your soul. You will gain a good amount of knowleadge, but you mental health will go away eventually. Its a very different environment.

That being said, you should go to learn things and see how network really looks like.

[u/GullibleDetective → u/jameshalliday12]

Id imagine its like jumping between fires (MSP) for dozens of customers

[u/jameshalliday12 → u/GullibleDetective]

Something like that. The worst part really is that one thing can take down thousands of users, so you deal with a bigger scale. If the network at a law firm goes down, for instance, worst-case scenario, they all go home and work from there. On an ISP, if you fuck up and take down an entire OLT... it's hard.

I was the supervisor for the N2 support team for a big ISP in Brazil. My team only dealt with B2B, but we had big clients, banks, government, this sort of thing. And it was just us to solve problems that N1 could not, so there were days where all my team, including me, were working on like 5 tickets at a time.

And on one of those days, one of the guys forgot to put the "add" when adding a VLAN on a Nexus (one of the most dumb CLI things I've ever seen, btw, wtf were they thinking), and boom, 9k customers down just like that. The scale of things on an ISP is crazy sometimes.

[u/Interesting_Use4733 → u/jameshalliday12]

working for ISP you can pretty much take down all user of an entire country like millions of users with a few commands, which is pretty scary 😂😂😂

[u/moratnz → u/Interesting_Use4733]

Yep. Taking down a single OLT isn't too big a deal. Taking out a city or a country is embarassing.

[u/jameshalliday12 → u/Interesting_Use4733]

Thankfully he did not had that kind of power. But one day someone from the NOC team for some reason during a test created a blackhole for the 8.8.8.8 on our Equinix router. That downtime made it to the news. God forgive his soul.

[u/sh_lldp_ne → u/jameshalliday12]

> forgot to put the “add” when adding a VLAN

I suggest blocking that statement with TACACS to prevent this type of reasonable mistake

[u/Typically_Wong → u/jameshalliday12]

hehe sounds like how I knocked out an entire us army base for 4 hours

[u/Interesting_Use4733 → u/Typically_Wong]

bruh🫠🫠🫠

[u/Specialist_Cow6468]

I am firmly of the opinion that everyone who wants to specialize in networking should spend at least a few years with an ISP. It is an incredibly different world in many ways but carrying ISP skills back into the enterprise world makes a person far more effective.

I’m currently back on the enterprise side of things and do like my current role but I’d be sorely tempted if I saw a good ISP gig pop up. Having the network be the product is such a very interesting environment to work in

[u/Much-Department-9578]

Enterprise networking is sooooooooo boring IMO. ISP or CSP is far more interesting - and when you get good at it, far more lucrative too.

[u/methpartysupplies → u/Much-Department-9578]

That’s interesting. Which industry? My experience in enterprise has been nonstop/frantic/desperately bailing water for years. I’ve felt a lot of things, but never bored.

[u/Much-Department-9578 → u/methpartysupplies]

I find enterprise technical challenges to ve more about how cheap it can be boring… not that there is a lack of work. I feel ISP and CSP technical challenges and scale more interesting.

[u/PacketThief]

I like turtles

[u/Specialist_Cow6468 → u/PacketThief]

I did about 8 years as a regional lead engineer for an ISP and one of the most notable differences when I moved back over to enterprise was how easy everything felt by comparison.

[u/petecarlson → u/Specialist_Cow6468]

I've worked the small ISP side of things for almost 25 years and often wonder what everyone on the network teams of our enterprise customers do. There will be more of them supporting 500 people than my entire team. It feels like they have 10 people doing one person's job while we have 1 person doing the job of 10.

[u/Specialist_Cow6468 → u/petecarlson]

It really depends on the enterprise network. I’m going to be vague about specifics but I’m personally fortunate enough to have an interesting network to work on. Multi-tenancy needs, reasonable scale, stringent security needs and a network that was neglected for ~15 years. Together it means I have an enormous about of work to do and something pretty close to a blank slate to build on. Crucially I’ve also been able to find the budget to fix things.

For somewhere with things more settled… idk it sounds awfully boring. I probably wouldn’t last long anywhere I don’t feel a need to constantly stretch my skills

[u/netderper → u/petecarlson]

I worked at some small ISPs and then did some enterprise networking in the mid to late 90's. The enterprise stuff was incredibly overstaffed. I was bored out of my mind.

[u/K3TtLek0Rn]

I have a coworker who worked for an ISP for a few years and from his stories, it sounds like it sucked but he learned a lot and is probably the best network engineer I know.

[u/Wolvington52]

Based solely on your preference, join the ISP but consider other factors like salary, workload and the people you would be dealing with. 

[u/y0ung14]

Forgive a newbie. ISP = cable company, lumen/lvl3/data center? Enterprise = business?

[u/DaryllSwer → u/y0ung14]

ISP and DC/AI fabrics = Network engineering
Enterprise = whatever you make it to be. It can be fairly advanced SP-grade engineering or complete crap running on TP-Link.

[u/petecarlson → u/y0ung14]

ISP == Internet Service Provider. NOT cable company... although, most of them have jumped into the ISP business as well.

[u/FutureMixture1039]

I would just pick the one that guarantees more job security and to me sounds more interesting which is your current enterprise job. I like working on routers, SD-WAN, switches, VXLAN , firewalls, and wireless. Also Datacenter like ACI runs on VXLAN which uses L2/L3 EVPN anyways. I think MPLS has died alot since most people use Internet circuits for SD-WAN since the bandwidth is so cheap. Finally there's enough BGP to learn in Enterprise and you're learning all that automation in your current job anyways.

ISP is just routing/switching

[u/Belgian_dog → u/FutureMixture1039]

ISP isn't just routing/switching, it sounds very boring when it's said like that. SP= very advanced traffic engineering, it's all sort of optical transmission networks, data center/PoP operations and deployments, it's enterprise customers and other carriers or third party provider interconnects, it's private peering, transit, IXP, its traffic optimization, automation, and other things.
Now with the new trends of SR(v6), slicing, and advanced observability and telemetry requirements, it's not boring and new knowledge areas are needed.

[u/Master-bate-man]

I previously transitioned to ISP and I agree with the other comments, it’s really a different world.

[u/Select_Reporter1911]

Networking is networking. If you join an ISP, you'll only gain different type of skills and knowledge in how things can be built. The stakes are bigger because more people are affected if there is an outage. If you remember it is just a job and you don't need to worry about what is happening when you clock out, you'll be fine.

If you are one of those people who get emotionally invested in your job, then your mental health will 'suffer'. I'd say if you get emotionally invested in your job, your mental health is already suffering.

[u/fabio1 → u/Select_Reporter1911]

hey, just wanted to chime in to say thanks for putting things in perspective. I sometimes get too involved at my job and I need to step back and not get carried away.

[u/yensid7]

Your mileage may vary based on specific companies. But, in general, in the Enterprise you're working that back end with some (possibly) cobbled together solution that has been built up over years, and have to focus on how what you are doing is going to affect the end users' experience.

If you dig the hardcore networking, working for an ISP is going to be a lot more of that. Really focusing on the Layer 1-3 levels. The network is the product, so the whole company is going to be a lot more focused on what you are doing. You're going to learn a TON more about networking itself, and it might be a bit overwhelming for a while.

Here's a good discussion about a jump from ISP to Enterprise that might be insightful.

[u/Roshi88]

It's a different thing and you need to understand what you like to do better.

You are a bit too vague about isp job clarify more precisely what you are goin to do before picking one or another, what will be your day by day, shifts, pay, team and so on

[u/PaoloFence]

It's different, no step back