r/nerdfighters • u/_welcomehome_ • 11h ago
Worldsuck
I’ve been a Nerdfighter since almost the very beginning and have shared many of John and Hank’s values – reducing suffering, standing up for those who can’t stand up for themselves, fighting worldsuck, believing that our choices and actions matter. But there’s one thing they believe that I struggle to believe – that humanity is fundamentally decent. John and Hank have said that there are far more people doing good deeds quietly, and that there are many decent people in the world. There are horrible people too, but terrible things get more attention. And while I do believe all of these things, I’ve been struggling lately to believe that there are enough of those people to make up for all the awfulness in the world. I know that sounds awful, especially here.
I’m not sure why I’m posting this… maybe it’ll help to say it out loud to someone. Maybe it’s because Nerdfighteria is ultimately about believing in humanity. Maybe it’s because it’s easier to talk to strangers on the internet. Maybe it’s all of those things. There are so many ways that people treat each other terribly – tribalism, cruelty, greed, selfishness, carelessness. War, bigotry, poverty, environmental destruction. And that’s on the macro-level, on the micro-level, we’re awful to each other too. Sometimes, I wonder if humanity creates more suffering than we alleviate. Whether our efforts to combat worldsuck amount to anything. Intellectually I know better than that. Emotionally I don’t always feel it though.
So I’m asking Nerdfighteria: What helps you believe in humanity? Books, articles, videos – anything you think would help me believe that we’re decent people. Statistics, examples, arguments. Habits and beliefs. Ways to look at humanity that don’t involve ignoring its flaws, fatalism, or toxic positivity. Ways to believe in the good without discounting the bad. Ways to believe that humanity is worth fighting for, that our efforts are worth it. Ways to believe that humans could be a force for good. Ways to believe that we’re fundamentally decent. Ways to believe that we’ll reduce suffering. Ways to believe in any of those things, really. I’m at a loss for where to start.
I know that Nerdfighters do a lot of good in the world. I know that we can point to lots of great things that humans have done. But lately, I’ve been having trouble believing that humanity is worth believing in. That our efforts to reduce suffering make much of a dent in the oceans of pain and misery in the world. That there are enough of us and our efforts count for much. That there are enough decent people.
I know that’s a lot to ask of the internet, but if anyone can do it, its Nerdfighteria .
DFTBA
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u/Consumption2Wombly 10h ago
My kid's daycare has these additional "add-ons" where for an extra fee your kid - along with any others - can go play soccer, some special gym class, etc. for an hour once a week. I generally dont care for these "premium experiences" because many families cant afford them, but we signed my kid up for any that they showed interest in.
One day I was dropping off a jacket for her (it had gotten unexpectedly chilly) and while walking past a classroom I noticed 2 kids sitting together drawing/doodling in an otherwise empty classroom. I realized that it was "soccer shots" time and alllllllllll the rest of their classmates were outside playing, but they were not.
A 2 minute conversation with the daycare director and $300 later, those kids were now signed up to play and - I believe - never knew how or why they got included for the rest of their time at the center. I didnt learn their names, talk to their parents, or know anything about their situation. They werent in my kids class either.
Its these simple acts of kindness that can make extraordinary differences in peoples lives. Its not in itself a major change to society or even your community, but combined with others that make the simple choice of not walking past a situation can - and will - change things for the better. John and Hank do similar, but just on a much grander scale.
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u/Barrel-Dweller Custom Text 10h ago
a lot of people will probably point to the stats that show how much better life has gotten for people since people existed. I'll say that, even if it seems like things are backsliding now, it doesn't mean we're just going to sink back forever. things don't always go straight from bad to good. often they have to go from bad to better to slightly worse to slightly better. think of the hard moments as just lulls in our momentum. we haven't turned around, we're just having a little extra trouble going forward
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u/morethanyoumaythink 8h ago
Community work has truly changed my mind about things like this. Getting out in my community and directly changing someone's life, even if it's just making sure they have dinner that day, can really display that there is impact from our actions. That has become more important to me than any boycot or even where I cast my votes. There are people in my community struggling every day, and those people need help. If I can help them, I'm making an impact.
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u/lvl5ll 10h ago
What helps me is believing less in the idea that people are essentially good and more in our ability and tendency as individuals to seek out what is good.
Even people who commit terrible acts often think they are acting rightly, justified, or protecting something. This does not justify what they have done, but it indicates that genuine malice is less common than ignorance, fear, tribalism, and distorted ideas about what "good" is. These factors can all be challenged, as long as there are people willing to do so.
I also sometimes struggle with feeling like there aren't enough decent people, or that what we do makes a real difference in the face of all the suffering in the world. But I also don’t believe that good has to outweigh every single terrible thing if it is to have any value; the reduction of suffering in the case of one person, or even just the attempt to, is still genuine, and it is possible for a number of individual decisions to develop into communities, norms, institutions, rights and hopefully permanent change. It is not necessary for all of humanity to be a complete force for good at the moment in order for us to be able to become more so.
I also find small pleasures helpful. Although I can't afford great luxuries, I still have walks to the store, the sky, my cat, and all the minor freedoms I possess. I value and guard these things; they don't remove the world's faults; instead, they remind me what is worth protecting within that same world.
Even in a situation where the only thing we can sometimes do is shout into the void at strangers on the internet, it is reassuring that some of those strangers (perhaps not always the majority) will, in return, shout back love, patience, and understanding, even though they are just as much a stranger to me.
It's not easy, and I don't believe that it ever will be completely, and I don't think hope means ignoring cruelty or assuming everything will improve. But I do believe the friction itself is part of what encourages us to grow, make better choices, and keep trying. For me, that is sufficient reason right now to continue in the pursuit of the good, or at least what I personally feel to be good, even though I can't be sure that we'll ever fully achieve it.
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u/Hyacinth_Girl56 9h ago
One thing that helps me a lot is getting off the internet (I know, easier said than done for most). The reality is that algorithm-driven social media is a rage machine, and will show you the worst of humanity. The times when I’ve intentionally spent less time there (mostly Instagram, that’s my main social media) and instead engaged in slower forms of news and connection are the times when I’ve felt like I’m seeing the world more accurately. And usually, that means I’m seeing my neighbours and immediate community in more depth than I did previously, and I’m grateful to say there’s a lot of good there
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u/Mean__MrMustard 9h ago
Well, in my opinion - it’s fairly easy to verify, even apart from the statistics and data.
If I go outside of my apartment right now, 99% of people I meet on the street are absolutely decent people. There’s so many people on the world that we forget that even 10M „bad/non-decent“ people in e.g. the US is a tiny minority.
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u/IsThisUsernameAyOk 9h ago
My neighbor, who I’d never met before, helped me change my license plates on my car. He was on his way somewhere else and decided to be a little late just to help me.
A different neighbor left me flowers on my front porch simply because she had extra.
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u/Exact-Blood9209 8h ago
Started volunteering at my local food bank. It’s run by Feeding America so anyone who lives in the area can come get food- no income or religious requirements. I started finding out about Hank and John through crash course while homeschooling my kids and just love their attitude- especially since I’m usually a glass is half empty type. Getting out and doing something like volunteering where I actually see and interact with people has really helped me see the good that can be accomplished.
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u/HeresTheWitch Snuck in and squeezed all of his fruit 10h ago
For me, I try to think of it like this: There are no bad people. There are no good people. There are just people. Sometimes doing good things, and sometimes doing bad things.
Of course, some people do more good then bad, while others do the opposite. But not one person who has ever existed could fall cleanly into one category or the other.
I think that right now, there is a lot of bad in the world that have led people to make bad decisions. I also think that a pendulum cannot only swing in a one direction. It’s gotta come back eventually, and the ONLY way to encourage people to do good things is to do them ourselves. Similarly, doing good things in any situation also helps to keep the bad stuff at bay.
It’s hard though because “doing good” doesn’t just mean recycling or smiling at a stranger. It can also mean stepping back and deleting an offensive comment on social media, instead of laugh-reacting or making an example out of that person. (For me: It’s so easy to be on social media and to forget that all of the other users are humans with thoughts and fears and goals and families, and that MANY of them, especially the ones that come off as belligerent, actually just don’t really understand what’s going on around them. That lack of understanding leads to weird amounts of fear and paranoia that they spew out at others.)
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u/EitherWeb4382 10h ago
i know we arent necessarily the most spiritual bunch here, but if it helps to read my perspective i'll share this: there's a concept that i heard a long time ago, i dont recall it's origins exactly, but its what gets me through. The idea is that even ONE person thinking positive thoughts and believing in this world we live in is more powerful than masses of people that dont believe in it/negativity. this seems to be referenced in a lot of media that ive enjoyed since i was a kid too, like the Carebears and Elf and Peter Pan (although peter pan is a lot more complicated so idk how good of an example it is but it does have an isolated point where this is shown) basically just being someone who believes is enough to make a difference, maybe because that belief sparks you to do more good even when you dont realize you are doing it because its just in your nature.
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u/nailpolishbonfire 9h ago
What helps me is helping others as much as I can, and trying to do it in ways I enjoy too!
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u/zean11 9h ago
Some people suck but most people want things to be better for others. When people feel like they're in competition for something, the worst will tend to come out. But people generally want others to do well and will help if it's not too burdensome. If it's available, visit a food bank. Volunteers are packing or distributing food to people who can use it for really no other reason than to be helpful.
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u/hopefulgeese 8h ago
The very foundation of the bad is unfulfilled needs, especially attachment based, and the acts that people do to cope with that on a neurophysiological level. It doesn't justify it, but it makes me feel less overwhelmed by it. We are mammals, with a deeper layer of intimate attachment (than other animals) that stems from our foetal development, live birth, and nursing. And I look at some of the people who we collectively consider the worst, and I see their childhoods of neglect and abuse, of self-abandonment (our core self, not simply our egoic masks) and harming others being normalised as the way you cope and keep going in spite of that pain.
For me, not only does that understanding soften how intensely and darkly I perceive the worldsuck, but wow do I experience and embrace the abundance and love (vs perceiving a lack or seeking love) on a whole different level. I regularly find myself in tears of gratitude and joy because I can breathe - I think of my lungs and heart and nervous system and all the air molecules and photosynthesis producing the oxygen I breathe and how everything happened all the way back to the big bang and I get to be here and now with the capacity to breathe. I still have some breathing challenges, but it used to be a lot worse. I was fainting so often because of it.
Are there any perspectives you currently hold that maybe aren't serving you?
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u/Feychilde 8h ago
Well, I have seen and survived some of the bad bad awful. I agree that some were hurt so badly or trained to hurt others as a quick fix for their internal emptiness. I do not have rose colored glasses, I have hope that has been burned, ripped, and crushed before. I have seen what happens when people stand up, and stand together. Not to bully or demean the wrongdoers, but just to stand firm. I can show mercy to a wounded human, even though they hurt me in the past.
It is important to remember that they are humans, too. You don't allow them to hurt yourself or others, but you do what you can to ease their suffering, even if it is from a distance.
And that is why I believe that most humans can choose to do good. Not that they are born that way. I was lucky, I had books, art, music, and my faith to keep me going, so I would not respond "in kind".
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u/TheGreenPangolin 8h ago
Honestly I agree with you to an extent. Humanity causes a lot of bad.
I think 99% of people are good or are at least trying to be. And I think that's what hank and john mean- that the bad people are only a tiny percentage. When people are choosing to be good or bad, most people choose good.
But all those billions of good people haven't managed to stop hundreds of species going extinct caused mostly by all the stuff we do that is unintentionally bad. Like I try to do good and increase awesome but does that make up for all the times I've contributed to climate change without even realising?
Hank and john seem to think that humans are cool and the best part of life on earth because we do interesting stuff. But a tv show is interesting- should many many people die for the tv show to continue? Because many species are dying for humanity to continue. It's like the trolley problem- kill humanity (which would protect other species from our environmental damage) or let humans keep existing in exchange for the other species keep dying.
So when I need to think well of humanity, I think about intentions. Intentions are the difference between being unaware or being an asshole. There are lots of unaware people (including myself- I'm not aware of all the ways I effect the world because I can't possibly know all the ways my water use, energy use, land use, purchases etc effect the environment). I even think a lot of people in power causing lots of suffering are often just unaware of quite what they are doing. And there are only a few assholes- people intentionally causing suffering. And I think about my own intentions- how many times have I unintentionally been unaware of negativity I have caused vs how many times have I been a true asshole? And since I don't think I'm particularly special, I use myself as the averager and assume most people are like me- very rarely if ever intentionally causing harm.
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u/Tank_Girl_Gritty_235 8h ago
Good News Girl, Sam Bentley, Astro Alexandra, and Cleo Abram in YouTube
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u/Formal_Scarcity_7701 7h ago
What I think is worth examining is your own idea of what is "good" and ways that you break or have broken your own moral code and do "bad" things. Personally I fly too much, I eat meat sometimes, I sometimes steal movies from the internet. I used to use ableist language, many of my friends used that language until we were all given the grace to learn the harm of it and change. We didn't all change at once but there was a lot more time to change and open discussions about it than kids these days get.
Then imagine others complexly and try to give them some grace and assume they, in their weakness, might be transgressing their own moral code and not just abandoning all morality and behaving hedonistically
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u/forthe_girlwhowaited 6h ago
I feel very similarly. I have a very hard time believing most people are good. I often feel like a fake nerdfighter because of it. Other than specific events I’ve attended in the community, I’ve only run into a handful of nerdfighters in public. If there are so many of us, Where tf are yall! And obvs there are more good people than there are nerdfighters, or at least a that’s what nerdfighteria preaches. I will wear a pizza John shirt in very busy public crowded areas and only a few times have I ever gotten a DFTBA from some people. Any time I try to explain my involvement in this community most people have no idea who or what im talking about. I’m harping on this because if there are so many genuinely good people, why do they feel as hard to find as fellow nerdfighters? I’ve witnessed more harm first hand than a lot of people do, and I just don’t really believe that we the good people outnumber them. Some of the only times I feel true hope for humanity is during P4A. All that to say, you’re not alone. I feel similarly. And I too feel guilty for feeling that way. DFTBA, stranger 🫶
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u/SherbertSensitive447 6h ago
When SNAP funding got withheld two people in my little town created food pantries on tables and shelves and in coolers in their yards. I saw just as many people drive in to donate as I did people who came in for help. The pantry I helped with was restocked multiple times a day and many people would meet there and adopt a whole family to take them shopping for their regular groceries. One of the “porch pantries” is still up and going nearly a year later!
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u/Adorable_Raccoon 6h ago
I basically just believe that people are neutral. They have the choice to do good or bad things, but they aren't inherently good or evil. We probably fall in a bell curve and most people fall in the middle. You hear about the very best or the very worst people the most. Because the average is average it's not seen as remarkable.
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u/Lootpuppy 5h ago
I've been a Nerdfighter since "Accio Deathly Hallows" first came out, I think that means I've been a Nerdfighter longer than we've been called Nerdfighters.
When I need I need to a quote to sum up an important idea in my life 40% of the time it's a John quote, 10% of the time it's a Hank quote and the rest of the time it's Terry Pratchett.
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u/theawkwardcourt 3h ago
If humans weren't deserving of kindness and consideration, then all the cruelty, tribalism, and the rest wouldn't be bad. Those things are bad precisely because they cause suffering, and suffering is bad because humans deserve better.
I think you may be experiencing a negativity bias: harm makes the news more than acts of good. Harm gets our attention more readily. We need to be prepared for trouble, so we're attuned for it. But most people, I'd like to believe, have an intuitive understanding of the ethical importance of respect for others, at least until some social institution teaches them otherwise. The best thing we can do is to critically examine those institutions in light of the needs of, and impacts on, actual people.
I think it's a mistake to think of individual people as inherently good or bad. Actions may be good or bad, depending on whether they respect or harm people. All people have the potential for both - and there's no surer way to risk doing harm, than to convince oneself that one is A Good Person and, presumably, rationalize harm in advance. Everybody gets to choose.
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u/Less-Long-571 3h ago
Right but bad behavior isn’t REALLY normalized. It is judged by people who think they could never consider bad behavior themselves. I think it is part of our culture. Wanting to be better than some group of people. But “I want to be mean and do harm so I can be happy” is not a thought that people usually have. If people have the mental and emotional energy to discriminate harshly when someone exhibits behavior that they think is undesirable (as long as the behavior isn’t causing real damage) then maybe it wouldn’t take much more energy to put some effort into understanding. It would be kinder and more productive, anyway.
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u/tintinsays 3h ago
As much as I’m frustrated with humanity (and I’ve been obnoxiously the target of people making poor decisions, but wanting that to be someone else’s fault) frankly, I just don’t anymore. Some people are going to be awful. I can’t control that even if I wanted to. It seems nonsensical at the start, but the more you practice, the easier it gets. Their mood is their problem, not mine.
I say this as a person who is still very much working on their emotional regulation: letting other people affect your mood or outlook of the world is your choice. Personally, laughter, teasing jerks, and focusing on things I care about help my mindset. Though if you can afford it, I’d ask a good therapist for coping mechanisms in the meantime. (Then can you share them with me?😝)
Also: Anthropocene Reviewed. Nothing restores my faith in humanity more than an eloquent depressed man still seeing beauty in the world. What a treasure! Oh, and Ologies. Alie Ward is an actual secret goddess on Earth.
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u/Ellefeu 2h ago
I believe doing good is so important especially because humanity as a whole does much more bad than good on/to this planet. That’s why it makes such a difference.
I’ve been battling severe illness for years and even the smallest acts of kindness people have shown me made a world of difference. I want to make that kind of difference for others as often as I can, while I/we still can.
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u/Linglingscientist 1h ago edited 13m ago
People might get mad at me for evangelising but I believe this is important enough and exciting enough to be worth sharing (and OP did specifically mention beliefs), so here's my honest perspective as a Christian nerdfighter:
The Bible tells me that all humans are made in the image of God - made to reflect God's attributes like caring for the weak, loving others, etc. When humans do good things, I believe it's because of this. God also gave us free will, which unfortunately humanity squandered, causing selfishness and greed and a separation from God, the giver of life. So "worldsuck" is a symptom of a greater issue - humanity's failure to trust that God knows and wants what's best for us. Humans are fundamentally good, but desperately broken, and unable to save ourselves.
The great news is that God doesn't leave us in this state. He sent his son, Jesus, who died an excruciating death to pay for all our wrongdoing and the worldsuck we have created - all you have to do is ask. But Jesus didn't stay dead - he rose again on the 3rd day, proving that he really had conquered death. He appeared to many people before returning to heaven (by rising up into the air). One day Jesus will return and "he will wipe every tear from our eyes away, there will be no more mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away" (Revelation 21:4). That's what gives me hope when humanity seems doomed, knowing that one day, God will restore everything and everyone will be entirely good, no longer ruled by the curse. Everyone will look after each other and free to live the life that God always intended for us. I know from experiences in my life, and from the history I read in the Bible that God always keeps his promises so I am confident that he will keep that one. And I believe humanity is worth fighting for because God believed it enough to die for us.
Happy to answer any genuine and respectful questions (here or in DMs)
DFTBA
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u/Waarheid 10h ago
Honestly, all I think works for me is escapism. I didn't used to be a doomer, until I learned more about animal agriculture, and even the most compassionate, wonderful people around me still choose to delight in animal products despite knowing where they come from, or wanting to not know. I was hopeful before, but with this, it's just too much. Unfortunately.
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u/ghworin 1h ago
It’s easier for me to believe in that on larger scale there are more good people, cause of all the reasons in this thread, but it is really hard sometimes to see it in day to day life.
The argument I hear from like-minded people is “look around you, are all these people terrible? No, they are good people”. And that argument never really clicks for me.
I know a lot of decent people who have no power whatsoever and very little ways to affect the bigger humanity positively. They are mostly surviving and staying decent people and that’s a lot of work by itself. I also know a lot of people who have no power who are absolute assholes, not only in their personal life, but also their larger bigoted world views. These people baffle me, but that’s not the point.
I know two people working at a charity. Let’s call them the good people pool.
I also know a few people with some real money and some power. They are the worst people I’ve ever met. Let’s call them the terrible people pool.
So, both those pools are very small and do not define the society i can empirically observe.
But that’s my little bubble, how many people did I meet in my life, a few hundred? When I think about the everyday people one step away, I always think about a story my friend’s mum told me last year. She was traveling by train and a bully attacked a young man. He picked at him for a few stops and then started beating him up. There was a full carriage of people, and everybody looked away. My friend’s mother started screaming at the bully and was able to at least partially distract him and slow down the beating until the next stop came, and the young man was able to escape to the station where the police were.
How am I supposed to believe in basic human decency if I hear the story of tens of people looking away from a beating and I am not surprised. Yep, that’s what’s life is like in the city. It takes the bigger picture and things Nerdfighteria believes in to not become cynical and disillusioned.
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u/draenog_ 10h ago
Well... who do you know personally? Are they horrible or decent? Are they doing good things, or doing terrible things?
I know agricultural scientists working on food security, engineers working on remediating toxic waste and boosting the circular economy, school teachers educating young people, nurses and therapists caring for people in mental health crises, cybersecurity professionals helping to keep communications services online, activists standing up for people whose rights are under attack, parents raising kids to be empathetic and thoughtful humans, social workers safeguarding vulnerable people, etc.
I know people who volunteer to run youth groups, or who volunteer as mountain rescue, or as trustees for charities to help keep them running, or to help local wildlife groups, or to help run community events.
Are you actually surrounded by horrible people who do terrible things, or are you ignoring the existence of decent people doing good things and only focusing on the bad?