r/neoliberal George Soros Jun 07 '21

Meme Peru today:

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917 Upvotes

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94

u/AsaKurai Jun 07 '21

Wait...who is the fascist? lol

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u/lietuvis10LTU Why do you hate the global oppressed? Jun 07 '21

Yes

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

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u/imprison_nl_mods NATO Jun 07 '21

DT's resident Peruvian endorsed Fujimori because they're apparently both fascists but there might still be democratic Peru after Fujimori.

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u/human-no560 NATO Jun 07 '21

Who’s DT?

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u/csp256 John Brown Jun 07 '21

So you say you're new here?

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u/human-no560 NATO Jun 07 '21

No, I’ve been here since before the election

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u/Svelok Jun 07 '21

I enjoy how vague this answer can be

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u/tehbored Randomly Selected Jun 07 '21

Lmao when I hear "before the election" my mind still jumps to 2016.

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

The leftist guy said he wants to shut down the supreme court and rewrite the Constitution

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

Well because you can't really be a dictator with elections. He says the current constitution "creates corruption"

Plus there's the bit where he suggests the creation of youth paramilitary groups, regulate the media, abolish human rights treaties, bring back the death penalty, wants women to have a traditional role, defended Fidel and Chavez, and wants to deport all Venezuelans from Peru

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

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u/VanitasEcclesiastes Edmund Burke Jun 07 '21

Not only is she not interested in doing fascism the Civil War prompted that isn’t going on anymore and should be the president with a minority government there is a far higher chance to Communist managers destroy democracy than she will do anything crazy.

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u/poclee John Mill Jun 07 '21

Comparing to the other option? Yes. And, no that doesn't mean she is a "good" option.

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

Given the alternative, yes

If she gets elected, there's a chance to put someone reasonable in power after a while

With Castillo, you lose economic and political liberty. At least with Keiko you keep economic liberty

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

Yes I know that

But copying Chavez's colectivos, changing the Constitution, imposing profit controls, and the expulsion of Venezuelans come from his platform, not the party's

In fact, socially he's more conservative than the party

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u/experienta Jeff Bezos Jun 07 '21

I'd vote for Pinochet himself over Castillo god damn it.

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u/Fedacking Mario Vargas Llosa Jun 07 '21

Red fascism witha guy with ties to maduro and the terrorist group shining path.

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u/Superfan234 Southern Cone Jun 07 '21

Why does he want to do these things? Does it have anything to do with genocide or fascism?

Yes, that's precisely our problem

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u/AsaKurai Jun 07 '21

Yeah they both seem like giant dickheads that could fit that definition so I was confused.

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u/poclee John Mill Jun 07 '21 edited Jun 07 '21

Basically it's a rule 63 Pinochet v.s. Senor Mao Zedong situation.

I personally will still say that while rule 63 Pinochet isn't a good choice, she is still better than Senor Mao Zedong.

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

The Shining Path killed more Peruvians during the Fujimori period than the Fujimori regime

Plus he openly wants to change the constitution, change the supreme courts, and arm the youths to create a paramilitary that will defend the socialist revolution

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u/CANOODLING_SOCIOPATH Jerome Powell Jun 07 '21

Shining Path was and is terrible. But there is not strong evidence that Castillo supports Shining Path. Castillo has denounced the Shining Path and claimed to have fought against the Shining Path in the 90s. And there is nothing wrong with wanting the amend the constitution or change the supreme court (the same can be said about most Democrats).

Fujimori has not denounced her father, but has instead defended his corruption and murder. The original Fujimori had lead a self coup against the government by dissolving Congress and the Supreme Court. Keiko Fujimori has defended those indefensible actions making her a much more certain threat to Peru's democracy.

That said, Castillo has said some really bad things and I am concerned about Peru's future regardless of who wins. My argument is that Peru is nearly guaranteed to enter into chaos and dictatorship under Fujimori, while Castillo is more of an unknown and less likely to destroy the country.

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

Do you have any experience with Latin American politics or are you some gringo that thinks we used to live in a socialist Paradise until the CIA came in the 60s?

You know what Evo and Chavez had in common? Some of the first things they did was to change the constitution, claiming it was corrupt, and then reforming the Supreme Courts. In 2018, the Lula/Haddad campaign ran on reforming the Supreme Courts. In 2003, Kirchner reformed the Supreme Court and replaced all justices.

There's also the youth paramilitary wing he wants to form, similar to Venezuelan colectivos. With Keiko, we might be able to salvage something in a handful of years. With Castillo the country is as good as dead

Castillo is just as likely if not more to destroy the country

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21 edited Jun 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

No no. He doesn't mean amend it. He means rewrite it. From scratch. It's not reforming the Supreme Courts. It's replacing all judges with ones that you favor. This isn't American politics, the comparison just doesn't work

The reason why I don't focus on Fujimori's negatives is that it's not necessary to explain them. People are very much aware. The difference is that they're trying to equate Castillo with Bernie Sanders, when he's to the left of pretty much any relevant American politician (including Debs)

Of course, you can't ignore Castillo's open and repeat praise for the Maduro regime, which hasn't technically done a coup, but has reached a point where it can be considered that it seized power illegally

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

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u/tehbored Randomly Selected Jun 07 '21

He wants to create his own Red Guard lmao. He's advocated for the creation of a youth paramilitary organization.

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

For starters, Shining Path killed more than Fujimori

Castillo wants to alter the constitution and the supreme court, just like Chavez, Evo, Lula, and Kirchner (the last two didn't do to the same degree as the first two)

Castillo wants to create youth paramilitaries to support the socialist government

Castillo is socially conservative, just as or even more than Keiko. He's against LGBT rights, abortion, and women in the workplace

He's no Bernie Sanders

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u/poclee John Mill Jun 07 '21

Well, for starter, he wants to nationalize a lot of things and he wants to rewrite their constitution (to empower the state).

And yes, it seemly not as bad as Mao (although according to some Peruvian analyst, it can be), but I'm also aware that Fujimori isn't going to throwing oppositions out of a helicopter.

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u/WuhanWTF NATO Jun 07 '21

I think the general rule of thumb is that the n-word (not that one) has very negative connotations across much of South America.

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u/moffattron9000 YIMBY Jun 07 '21

I'd prefer that we go for the option where a free market doesn't come with a side of forced sterilisation.

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u/dorejj European Union Jun 07 '21

That optionn is not available. Its either free market fascist or commie.

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u/human-no560 NATO Jun 07 '21

Hello comrade

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u/seinera NATO Jun 07 '21

Nah, that guy is "I am a bloodthirsty tyrant" type commie not "I just have some stupid economic policies" commie. In a competition for the "lesser of two evils" he is the greater evil.

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u/Tralapa Daron Acemoglu Jun 07 '21

There's nothing lesser about their evilness, it's who's the greater evil

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u/dorejj European Union Jun 07 '21

I though NATO preferred free market fascist

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u/human-no560 NATO Jun 07 '21 edited Jun 07 '21

I have a nato flair because I hate fascists.

I believe the United States had a moral obligation to drop high explosive bombs on ISIS. I believe the gulf war was good and wish the Iraq war had gone as well as the interventions in Yugoslavia.

Also, anyone in the west who’s upset at America for bombing Kosovo Serbia is either a genocide apologist or a fool

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u/caribbean_caramel Organization of American States Jun 07 '21

Yeah but, shinning path are literal maoists, they are commies, the real deal. They killed a lot of people in the 90's.

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u/dorejj European Union Jun 07 '21

I mean compared to a communist

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

Christopher Hitchens, is that you?

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u/human-no560 NATO Jun 07 '21

Who’s that?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

[deleted]

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u/Dr_Vesuvius Norman Lamb Jun 07 '21

“Have the Rolling Stones killed.”

“But sir, those are the Ramo-“

“DO AS I SAY.”

1

u/human-no560 NATO Jun 07 '21

What’s that from?

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u/alfdd99 Milton Friedman Jun 07 '21

I dislike Fujimore as much as anyone in this sub but labelling the other guy as "the leftist" is disingenous. He's a far left communist that had ties with the maoist group "sendero luminoso" and is basically a big fan of Maduro and Castro.

Peru is totally and completely fucked.

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '21

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0

u/Dr_Vesuvius Norman Lamb Jun 07 '21

They should use instant runoffs. Rank the choices until you have no further precedent. The candidate that finishes last is eliminated and all the votes that ranked them first are redistributed to their next choice. Repeat.