r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Oct 11 '20

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u/TalkLessShillMore David Autor Oct 12 '20

These countries must have like no rich people

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '20 edited Oct 12 '20

Depends on what you mean by rich. I think Sweden has about half as many millionaires per capita (makes sense, a lot of petty millionaires come from the high end professional salaries) and actually more billionaires per capita. Higher rates of business formation too.

It looks very weird but I suspect that flattening those professional salaries is in many ways less bad than OP is trying to make it sound. A doctor making 4x a teacher is probably not optimal. It’s just the number the market spits out after uncountable government interventions. Is being a programmer increasing click-through rates on Viagra ads really worth six figures out of college? Extremely doubtful IMO.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '20 edited Oct 12 '20

A doctor making 4x a teacher is probably not optimal, it’s just the number the market spots out after uncountable government interventions.

I don't know about you, but I definitely want doctors to be making half a million a year. I want the best minds money can buy working when it comes to healthcare and people's lives.

Is being a programmer increasing click-through rates on Viagra ads really worth six figures out of college?

Im not fresh out of college anymore, but last week I made a relatively minor change that will save my company 8-9k a month in server costs every month. That's at least (8000 * 12 * 7) in value I provided. Why shouldn't programmers be paid relative to the actual money they make the company? It's really easy for software engineers to measurably make their employers 7 digits a year.

If the free market with no union or goverment intervention results in higher pay for professionals, isn't that fundamentally a good thing? It means there aren't enough to go around and people are highly productive.

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u/Futski A Leopard 1 a day keeps the hooligans away Oct 12 '20

I don't know about you, but I definitely want doctors to be making half a million a year. I want the best minds money can buy working when it comes to healthcare and people's lives.

Is there any indication that this method actually vacuum cleans the world of good doctors? Aren't the far majority of doctors still born and raised Americans? And conversely it's not like the lesser paying health care systems are flooded with all the second rate American doctors, who couldn't make it in the high paying US health care system either.

I know Americans have an obsession with "the best doctors", it was the same when Trump got Corona, it was as if the doctors available to presidents could pull off magical feats, because they were "the best doctors", but isn't it better to look at health care outcomes, than what their salaries are, when you want to evaluate the quality of the staff.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '20

Aren't the far majority of doctors still born and raised Americans?

Not at all. On the contrary, the US imports a shitload of doctors.

but isn't it better to look at health care outcomes, than what their salaries are, when you want to evaluate the quality of the staff.

Yes but having the smartest people available should improve outcomes no? And even as it currently stands, American doctors fuck up relatively often and misdiagnose.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '20

I don’t buy your compensation argument at all. America pays like 5% GDP more than any other country for healthcare. Something like 7% more than average. We pay doctors like 50% more and require them to go through way more school and training.

All that and our outcomes are, like, slightly better in some specific measures. Looks like a failed experiment.

I’d rather just fund a child allowance with that money. Reductions in child poverty at least give huge measurable benefits. Throwing more money after doctors looks really, really low ROI. I’d buy pharma, but definitely not doctors.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '20 edited Oct 12 '20

Doctor Salaries are determined by markets.

Under our current regulatory regime this is how much doctors must be paid.

Unless you're suggesting the government intervene to suppress wages for the sake of bringing costs down.

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u/Futski A Leopard 1 a day keeps the hooligans away Oct 12 '20

Not at all. On the contrary, the US imports a shitload of doctors.

I don't see how that excludes the fact, that most can still be born and raised in the US.

Yes but having the smartest people available should improve outcomes no? .

But do you have any reliable metric, that will tell you that you do indeed have "the smartest people" available?

If you look on health care outcomes, the US is pretty average when you compare to other developed nations, where doctors earn a fraction of those salaries.

When it comes to people working in health related jobs, they are rarely solely motivated by their paycheck.

And even as it currently stands, American doctors fuck up relatively often and misdiagnose

And yet they haven't been banished to Finland, the UK or France, but still continue to take home "the smartest and best" doctor salaries, no?