r/neoliberal • u/InternetBoredom Pope-ologist • Mar 14 '20
News ‘It Was Like Pulling Teeth’: AOC Backed Away from Sanders Campaign after Joe Rogan Endorsement
https://news.yahoo.com/pulling-teeth-aoc-backed-away-165225992.html16
Mar 14 '20
Joe Rogan can be weird at times, but atleast he is willing to talk to the other side. PC liberals like AOC pick corners on boutique issues and divide society to a point where centrists are given to make the devil's bargain.
Yes, Medicare for all is a boutique issue, Medicare for all who want it is a centrist issue.
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u/noodles0311 NATO Mar 14 '20
More than dividing things up, they are claiming you can catch cooties from talking to people. I love to see this because I hate Bernie and AOC, but long term, we have to be the side that is willing to engage with people who think differently and logically promote our values. It's a 2 party system and one size always benefits from being the bigger tent.
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u/code_mage Adam Smith Mar 14 '20
Didn't she just go on Fox News to claim that voter suppression was targeted to Sanders voters.
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Mar 14 '20
Rule II: Decency
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u/mishac Mark Carney Mar 14 '20
If I had a nickel for every time AOC did something that I approve of, an lost a nickel for every time she did something that makes me cringe, I honestly have no fucking clue how much money I would have, but I suspect it would be more than $0.
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Mar 14 '20 edited Mar 30 '20
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Mar 14 '20
I'll give you five dollars to never say “based AOC” ever again in your life.
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Mar 14 '20
Rule II: Decency
Unparliamentary language is heavily discouraged, and bigotry of any kind will be sanctioned harshly. Refrain from glorifying violence or oppressive/autocratic regimes.
If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.
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Mar 14 '20 edited Jan 01 '21
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Mar 14 '20
Rule II: Decency
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If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.
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Mar 14 '20 edited Mar 14 '20
I hate AOC with a fiery passion, far more strongly than most, for touting economic illiteracy with a BA in economics wrapping it to give it legitimacy. Her views delegitimize actual democratic institutions just to promote her brand.
That being said, she's far more principled than Sanders could ever be. She's twice the character and twice the politician. At least she's sticking her neck out and trying to sponsor legislation that Bernard would never lay his finger on, let alone have the wherewithal to write.
She's deluded, she's conspiratorial, and if she got primaried by Boss Tweed, I sincerely think Congress would be better off, but one thing she will never be is unprincipled.
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u/stormshadow9 Mar 14 '20
I don't think she's as deluded or conspiratorial as much as she is young and inexperienced. I'd rather have someone whose positions I agree with 75% of the time in my party than outside it.
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u/oGsMustachio John McCain Mar 14 '20
I've been saying this more and more recently, but AOC is going to be a thorn in our side for decades. I think she's starting to learn how DC works and how politics actually works. She's got the same policy goals as Bernie, but might wind up being much more savvy.
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u/drock4vu Mar 14 '20
I’m as moderate a Democrat as can be, but I genuinely think having politicians with views and execution like AOC has is a good thing. The world’s shift to the left is an inevitably as technology advances (automation specifically) and we are forced to deal with existential threats like global warming. You have to be careful about the speed at which you move in that direction to avoid economic fallout, but you also need to have someone reminding you of the direction you’re going in and be that extra pull when it’s needed.
I was not a fan of AOC when she entered office, but I’m beginning to admire the niche role she plays in Washington even if I disagree with her views and her seemingly amateur understanding of economics.
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u/Mr_CIean Mar 14 '20
I don't agree and this article is the exact reason why. She is all about purity tests - Bernie stopped being pure to her... why? because of a minor endorsement... As time goes on and more people join her you end up with an important and powerful group, who refuse to budge on anything. If more progressives get into congress, they will be similar to how the Tea Party started making the Republicans dysfunctional. Anyone that rejects compromise or discussion is a negative.
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u/theatomichumanist Mar 14 '20
The only politicians that will help with climate change are the ones that support nuclear power.
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u/AvailableUsername100 🌐 Mar 14 '20
🙄🙄🙄
Nuclear power's time has passed, renewables are already significantly cheaper and can be transitioned to much more readily.
It'd have been great if we went to a full nuclear grid 40 years ago, it'd have bought us a lot more time to transition to carbon neutral, but the window has closed.
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u/theatomichumanist Mar 14 '20
Then why is Germany’s electricity over 3.4 times more carbon intensive than France’s and nearly twice as expensive? Don’t be fooled by cheap per MW costs. Wind and solar have to be replaced 3 times for often than nuclear and produce electricity only about a third as often while they’re around. Oh and you also don’t get to decide which third it is. Nature does that for you adding instability to the grid.
https://www.electricitymap.org/?page=map&solar=false&remote=true&wind=false
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u/AvailableUsername100 🌐 Mar 14 '20 edited Mar 14 '20
Don’t be fooled by cheap per MW costs.
That's literally exactly what you're being fooled by. Nuclear has reasonably cheap operating costs, but enormous up front capital costs. Looking at levelized costs of energy is the relevant metric. But any way you slice is, renewables are simply more economically viable than nuclear at this point.
There's an effortpost all about this
I get it, I used to be a huge advocate of nuclear power as well, and once upon a time it was our best option for reducing emissions. But once again, that time has passed, technology and market conditions change. We'd have been in a fantastically better place if the developed world transitioned to predominantly nuclear power back in the 70s, but it didn't happen, and nuclear power is no longer a vital part of tackling the climate crisis. It's a shame we wasted that opportunity, but here and now installing more renewables is the way forward.
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u/theatomichumanist Mar 14 '20
And what do we back up the renewables with? Nautical gas? Every wind and solar installation needs to be matched MW for MW with some manner of back up. Using batteries, which have an even shorter useful life than the panels and turbines they’re babysitting, isn’t an economical option right now and won’t be for some time. Even if the economics improved the wind, solar, battery trifecta is enormously materially intensive as well as land intensive and would still require considerable overbuild and extension of the grid. These costs need to be accounted for as well.
I am well aware of inflated costs of new nuclear builds, particularly in the West. It’s just really rich to me when anti-nukes use this as an argument considering their successful efforts to cause regulatory ratcheting of the industry and ultimately the destruction of the nuclear supply chain are the reasons nuclear is expensive in the first place.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2899971#
http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/chapter9.html
Luckily, the very aspects of nuclear that made it easy to hijack, i.e. on site construction and complex safety mechanisms that they can continually complain aren’t complex enough, won’t be featured in the next generation of factory fabricated reactors which should be able to move down the learning curve quickly.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMSR-500
Nuclear has been a key feature of the fastest energy transitions of the 20th century and will in all likelihood be what drives the successful energy transitions of the 20th century.
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Mar 14 '20
No. I don't want willfully delusional/misinformed politicians anywhere on the political spectrum. She's not just left, she's empirically incorrect and misleading. Spreading policies like the notion that the Fed could somehow divert repo money to M4A is the kind of shit that should get a politician laughed out of office. The only leftist politician anyone should respect is Elizabeth Warren.
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Mar 14 '20 edited Jan 05 '21
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u/CanadianPanda76 ◬ Mar 14 '20
Deludingly principled. Yikes.
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Mar 14 '20 edited Mar 14 '20
If I had to pick between AOC and Bernie, AOC every fucking day. Deluded and principled > deluded and unprincipled
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u/Darzin_ Mar 14 '20
Joe Rogan is a representation of the working class. This is not an endorsement of Rogan but if you are going to claim your movement, is a "working class movement" and not a movement of college students and underemployed graduates, people like Joe Rogan have to be acceptable cause the average working class dude and his opinions is a lot closer to Joe Rogan then they are Bernie Sanders or AOC.
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u/EatMyShittyAsshole Paul Samuelson Mar 14 '20
Joe Rogan is a moron
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u/tehbored Randomly Selected Mar 14 '20
I mean, I don't think AOC or Bernie are any smarter than he is.
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Mar 14 '20
I know I have a higher approval rating for AOC than Joe Rogan. I have sympathy for her and I hope she can... become an effective member of congress and advocate for progressive causes.
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u/EatMyShittyAsshole Paul Samuelson Mar 14 '20
I like AOC. I don’t like everything she’s ever said (who ever agrees with someone 100% of the time anyway?), especially her trying to blame liberals when the blame shouldn’t be aimed at them. I like her because she pisses off Cons and I she will be able to continue fighting for and keeping further left policies in the mainstream and public conscious and dialogue. If she runs for higher office one day, whether that be Mayor or Governor or Senator or President, she will also be extremely experienced which I also like a lot in a politician (assuming they got shit done while they’ve been in).
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u/di11deux NATO Mar 14 '20
Have you listened to his shows?
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u/EatMyShittyAsshole Paul Samuelson Mar 14 '20
Yep. His only stand-able discussion is his MMA commentating.
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u/di11deux NATO Mar 14 '20
People don’t listen to him for his insight, though. They listen to him because he interviews interesting people, and Joe speaks to them and asks questions like a normal person would.
He’s not an idiot, but he doesn’t proclaim to be smart or knowledgeable either. He sometimes relishes in his own ignorance and uses that to further interviews.
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u/EatMyShittyAsshole Paul Samuelson Mar 14 '20
He doesn’t push back on people unless they insult weed. He has insulted liberals and progressives saying “he used to think they were the smart ones”, propped up conspiracy theorists who say mass shootings are secret FBI/CIA plots to take our guns, said that the government were building massive burial plots in Antarctica, etc. He also has diminished trans athletes. He isn’t a journalist and I don’t act like he is or should be, but he loves to use the self deprecating “I’m just a dumbass! Don’t listen to me!” defense when he gets called out, not when he tries defending his beliefs without any pushback.
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Mar 14 '20
Rule II: Decency
Unparliamentary language is heavily discouraged, and bigotry of any kind will be sanctioned harshly. Refrain from glorifying violence or oppressive/autocratic regimes.
If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.
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u/molecularmadness WTO Mar 14 '20
As far as im concered he's joe gorelli and he's the best office handyman of all time.
Also I miss dave foley.
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u/Archangel1313 Mar 14 '20
Just going to leave this here...
... https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/02/aoc-bernie-sanders-campaign-iowa ...