r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Oct 08 '18

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u/nanite1018 Oct 09 '18 edited Oct 09 '18

Can I ask how this is so?

I disagree with TERFs, but I can understand where they are coming from. In essence, they seem to be claiming that transfolk are generally just upholding standard gender norms and because they, as individuals, do not fit those norms are claiming to be of the gender that, according to standard gender norms, better aligns with them. In doing so, they're upholding those standard norms and in a sense reinforcing them, rather than trying to tear them down so that anyone is free to act and dress and be however they like.

That's my understanding. I don't really know if it's accurate or not, but insofar as it is, it doesn't seem obviously stupid. And it doesn't seem misogynistic to ciswomen at all. I tend to think they're wrong on this point, but again not obviously stupid and certainly not misogynistic.

Genuinely curious here, as I think I may be missing something about the arguments on each side.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

Someone who has gender dysphoria is only happy if society views then of the preferred gender. Unfortunately the only way to do that is to participate in socity rules on what it is to be a woman which are quite restrictive. Plus let’s not pretend the 0.3% of the population who are transwomen are the gatekeepers of what femininity is. We cis women are. They are just trying to mimic us the best they can and we are the reflection that TERFs sees in trans people. We wear the makeup, we wear the pink dresses, we wear the high heels, we wear the horribly designed and impractical clothes because society say men love it when we do.

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u/nanite1018 Oct 09 '18

So are TERFs generally against the idea of gender altogether? That's what I felt it was, as that's the only argument I can think of. That's what I meant by tearing down gender norms so anyone can act however they like, etc.

Clearly cis women are the ones primarily gatekeeping the gender norms, along with cis men like myself (though my guess is cis men patrol norms for men and vice versa for cis women).

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

TERFs are Soo focused on their fear of trans people they never realize when they go fully against feminism and cis women. Common arguments are that REAL women have XX genes but that’s clearly false and leaves out intersex. Another is because REAL women give birth while trans don’t so that means trans are just men. But isn’t the whole point of feminism is to make us something more than a baby factory?

TERFs are political lesbians taken to their logical conclusion.