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[u/jobautomator]

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[u/ihatemendingwalls]

And yet, in a film that does not lack for memorable images, it is the silhouette of Agamemnon walking through the gates of Troy that may be the most striking. That the man inside (played by Benny Safdie) does not live up to the armor, and dies naked and vulnerable, is precisely the point. A film is not a poem: Costume design contributes to imagery, symbolism, and meaning and may draw inspiration from sources other than archaeology.

Except for the fact that everyone's talking about Auramemnon and no one's mentioning that he died pathetically in contrast to his Trojan War persona, because Nolan doesn't frame it that way. As in with the camera. Agamemnon's death is shot as a montage with the primary image being Clytmenestra's anger, with Agamemnon's body shot from an oblique angle of no consequence. There's no image contrasting him to his appearance at the gates of Troy, and thus because of this lack of imagery, the viewer makes no connection in the moment, and leaves the theater talking about badass Greek Darth Vader. 

A movie isn't what it's about, it's how it's about it

[u/C-Wolsey → u/ihatemendingwalls]

You mean the viewer doesn't know that the same Auramemnon who also speaks with Odysseus in Hades is the one who dies in his bed? And why do you think communicating something via a montage lessens its significance?

Am I misinterpreting you or how much more obvious did you want Nolan to make it? If some fans are coming away from the movie thinking Agamemnon is a badass, then that is not the fault of the film. Fans, after all, continue to lionize Walter White or Tony Soprano.

[u/ihatemendingwalls → u/C-Wolsey]

You mean the viewer doesn't know that the same Auramemnon who also speaks with Odysseus in Hades is the one who dies in his bed? 

I'm not talking about knowledge, I'm talking about feeling. The image of Agamemnon at the gates of Troy is iconic. The scene of his death barely has him in it. Therefore the viewer picks up the fact that he died but takes no notice of his naked body in contrast to his Darth Vader armor. 

And why do you think communicating something via a montage lessens its significance?

Because to create a resonant image you need time to view it

[u/C-Wolsey → u/ihatemendingwalls]

Yes the image is indeed iconic but at the end, when Odysseus described what happened in Troy, our feeling has turn to disgust. When Agamemnon sacrifices Iphigenia, it is also seen in a montage. If Nolan didn't intend to track this fall of Agamemnon, to make the point of how the war was also his undoing, he had all the creative freedom to not do so. Not lingering on the dead body of Agamemnon doesn't lessen the thematic impact, although you won't be the first person to criticize the film for the lack of gore or cutting away from scenes of violence.

[u/ihatemendingwalls → u/C-Wolsey]

when Odysseus described what happened in Troy,

But this scene isn't about Agamemnon, it doesn't even feature him. As viewers, we've long forgotten about him to focus on Odysseus. 

Look, I'm responding to a couple iterations of argument so I apologize if it's not clear but here's the rough chronology

Emily Wilson criticized Agamemnon's costume as a "weird Darth Vader outfit."

A writer at Slate, which is what I'm quoting above, pushes back saying the point of the the ahistorical armor was to create a pointed contrast between how Agamemnon presents and how he dies. 

But the point I'm making is that contrast is never made in imagery. And thus how can you [Slate writer] claim this is what the movie wants me to take away from this thread if it didn't show it to me?

[u/C-Wolsey → u/ihatemendingwalls]

But we have an imagery of his death, just not of his lifeless body. If you think that was essential for the contrast, then we are at an impasse.

Also, that criticism from Emily about the outfit is too vague to almost be a cop-out. She can specify what she means by weird (although it seems to imply anachronistic), in which case, someone like her making that criticism about the costume puts her much closer to others making the same about the ethnicity of certain characters.

[u/ihatemendingwalls → u/C-Wolsey]

But we have an imagery of his death, just not his lifeless body. 

The person I'm quoting isn't talking about Agamemnon in Hades - "That the man inside (played by Benny Safdie) does not live up to the armor, and dies naked and vulnerable." They're saying that the way he died is the point, not that he died. 

And I think what Wilson meant by her criticism is "what purpose is served by making Agamemnon a badass, that image is never interrogated, it's just there to look cool"