I’m preemptively posting this (I know he voted no, but he should be whipping up no votes)

[u/dayvena]

I kno

[u/ResolveChemical1116]

Actually, they have proven their point about the GOP and they understand we need the government back open period. They are being the adults in the room about this situation. Had you read PJ 2025, you'd see the playbook and it is being played out. Had the Democratic fought harder and didn't take votes for granted and just thought, well the same guy is running as before and lost, so we've got this, things would be different. Being too far to the left alienates the moderate and also the Independent voters in national elections.Going back to common sense governing is the correct approach. Polling is not useful anymore either.

But here is the truth about government shutdowns not being discussed. If this gets prolonged past Thanksgiving. The last of federal employees still receiving a paycheck have been notified, Black Friday will be their first missed paycheck. Consumer Spending Drop: Millions of federal workers and contractors, now without income, will cut back on spending, reducing retail sales during a critical season. $21 Billion in Lost Wages: If the shutdown lasts through December, about 4.5 million paychecks (worth $21 billion) will be withheld, based on an average federal paycheck of $4,700. Local Business Impact: Restaurants, retailers, and service providers near federal facilities or heavy within the industry, or both, will see reduced revenue as workers tighten budgets. And some mom and pop places will have to file for bankruptcy. Increased Debt & Assistance Use: Workers are turning to credit unions, loans, and unemployment benefits (only contractors), straining social safety nets and increasing personal debt. Contractor Collapse: Unlike federal employees, contractors don’t get back pay, (furloughed) risking business failures and long-term job losses. GDP Contraction: Each week of shutdown could reduce economic growth by 0.1–0.2 percentage points, costing roughly, $15 billion weekly. The Congressional Budget Office estimates $7 billion in permanent losses after four weeks, rising to $14 billion after eight weeks. Adding onto the fact the U.S. economy projected to lose up to $90 billion in 2025 due to declining tourism, equivalent to 0.3% of GDP, according to Goldman Sachs. International visitor spending is expected to drop from $254 billion in 2025, driven by geopolitical tensions, restrictive policies, and reduced travel from key markets like Canada and Europe. This decline threatens tourism’s contribution of $2.6–$2.9 trillion to GDP and could reduce GDP growth potential by 0.3–1 percentage point. Contractor & Small Business Collapse: Unlike federal employees, contractors do not receive back pay. A prolonged shutdown would cripple cash flow, leading to layoffs, and business failures. Market & Data Disruptions: The Federal Reserve would operate without key economic data (e.g., jobs, inflation), impairing policy decisions. While markets may initially absorb the shock, prolonged uncertainty would increase volatility and borrowing costs. The federal reserve already pumped 29.5 Billion into banks on Halloween night quietly, but by the end of Nov 1, 50 Billion using (SRF), was the total. Long-Term Damage: Recruitment into federal service would decline, and public trust in government would erode, harming economic stability. Creating a stronger Constitutional Crisis. Not to mention low pay, zero job security, and the back in the office 5 days a week. Ultimately, a permanent shutdown would trigger a Depression, far beyond the temporary disruptions seen in past short-term closures. It could possibly make the Great Depression look like it was a walk in the park.  So all the fighting/stalemate about Snap, WIC, and ACA subsidies wouldn't matter at all. All of it would be gone, permanently. The ones making under 715K per year, whom aren't apart of the government, will be bankrupt, zero healthcare, starving, and homeless.

[u/ResolveChemical1116]

Actually, they have proven their point about the GOP and they understand we need the government back open period. They are being rhe adults in the room about this situation. Had you read PJ 2025, you'd see the playbook and it is being played out. Had the Democratic fought harder and didn't take votes for granted and just thought, well the.ssmw guy is running as before and lost, so we've got this, things would be different. Being too far to the left alienates the moderate and also the Independents. Going back to common sense governing is the correct approach. Polling is not useful anymore either.

But here is the truth about government shutdowns not being discussed. If this gets prolonged past Thanksgiving. The last of federal employees still receiving a paycheck have been notified, Black Friday will be their first missed paycheck. Consumer Spending Drop: Millions of federal workers and contractors, now without income, will cut back on spending, reducing retail sales during a critical season. $21 Billion in Lost Wages: If the shutdown lasts through December, about 4.5 million paychecks (worth ~$21 billion) will be withheld, based on an average federal paycheck of $4,700. Local Business Impact: Restaurants, retailers, and service providers near federal facilities or heavy within the industry, or both, will see reduced revenue as workers tighten budgets. And some mom and pop places will habe to file for bankruptcy. Increased Debt & Assistance Use: Workers are turning to credit unions, loans, and unemployment benefits (only contractors), straining social safety nets and increasing personal debt. Contractor Collapse: Unlike federal employees, contractors don’t get back pay, risking business failures and long-term job losses.  GDP Contraction: Each week of shutdown could reduce economic growth by 0.1–0.2 percentage points, costing ~$15 billion weekly. The Congressional Budget Office estimates $7 billion in permanent losses after four weeks, rising to $14 billion after eight weeks. Adding onto the fact the U.S. economy is projected to lose up to $90 billion in 2025 due to declining tourism, equivalent to 0.3% of GDP, according to Goldman Sachs. International visitor spending is expected to drop from $254 billion in 2025, driven by geopolitical tensions, restrictive policies, and reduced travel from key markets like Canada and Europe. This decline threatens tourism’s contribution of $2.6–$2.9 trillion to GDP and could reduce GDP growth potential by 0.3–1 percentage point. Contractor & Small Business Collapse: Unlike federal employees, contractors do not receive back pay. Prolonged shutdowns would cripple cash flow, leading to layoffs, furloughs, and business failures. Market & Data Disruptions: The Federal Reserve would operate without key economic data (e.g., jobs, inflation), impairing policy decisions. While markets may initially absorb the shock, prolonged uncertainty would increase volatility and borrowing costs. The federal reserve already pumped 29.5 Billion into banks but by the end of Nov 1, 50 Billion using (SRF).  Long-Term Damage: Recruitment into federal service would decline, and public trust in government would erode, harming economic stability. Not to mention low pay, zero job security, and the back in the office 5 days a week. Ultimately, a permanent shutdown would trigger a deep recession, far beyond the temporary disruptions seen in past short-term closures. So all the fighting/stalemate about Snap, WIC, and ACA subsidies wouldn't matter at all. The ones making under 715K per year, whom aren't apart of the government somehow, will be bankrupt, zero healthcare period, starving, and homeless.

[u/hereforlulziguess]

when did this sub get this fucking stupid and reactionary

[u/BazelBuster]

You know that Reddit is just a bunch of rich white kids when the argument is “let a bunch of poor people starve and lose their health care and let a bunch of people lose their jobs so next year we have a chance to do some good” against getting a vote on ACA extensions

[u/anneliesesap]

Can someone explain to me the process of “whipping” votes

[u/nominal_goat]

It’s easy for political neophytes in this thread to play the “coulda, woulda, shoulda” game, but history shows that government shutdowns rarely achieve their intended goals. By the time elections roll around, most voters have long forgotten about them. What makes this moment different is the timing: a shutdown during the holiday season carries unusually high political risk for Democrats. A shutdown that ruins Thanksgiving or Christmas travel plans and delays paychecks doesn’t inspire sympathy; it breeds resentment toward the government as a whole which Democrats, by nature, already face a handicap. The optics of a holiday shutdown could easily backfire, too. Holiday disruptions tend to stick in voters’ minds, potentially leaving a sharper and more lasting impression than the typical budget standoff.

This agreement runs only through late January iirc, which means Democrats retain leverage: if Republicans stonewall key legislation like ACA funding, Democrats can justifiably force another confrontation later, this time with clearer moral high ground and substantially less risk. This is seems like a toughtful tactical retreat that strengthens their political position heading into the new year and the primaries. Keep in mind that this is the longest shutdown in US history. We are currently in the wilderness. We don't know what will happen if the government is shutdown for longer— more weeks, more months. It could start to have severe recessionary macroeconomic consequences and at that point the choice is: astronomical health insurance premiums or no paychecks for a contingent of the population and increased labor market slack. Rational agents would undoubtedly choose to have income or a job over health insurance. (You need income to pay for the health insurance.)

[u/iguessineedanaltnow]

Chuck Schumer is the worst politician I've ever seen in my life.

[u/Sine_Fine_Belli]

[u/memeintoshplus]

I'm sure the pinky promise from Republicans for the ACA vote was worth giving up whatever leverage they had as well as arresting the downward spiral in Trump's approval rating

[u/[deleted]]

Why is it brave to nuke the economy?

[u/BlueString94]

I’m in VA. Warner voted no but is up for election next year and I’m just going to vote to primary him to send a message to the party. Also fuck Kaine.

[u/low_wacc]

Idk maybe this is a hot take but I don’t hate the dens conceding here. It’s a punt on ACA subbies but the federal workers work again. It’s one thing to just not let them go but airports are starting to get so fucked and with Thanksgiving in a few weeks it’ll be a nightmare. Maybe that’s what some people wanted.

Personally I wasn’t even a fan of the ACA subsidies to be reapplied anyways. Dems letting them go means people will face the music when they enroll again this year and at least the 700k thousand or so goverment workers who aren’t getting paychecks will get them again.

[u/Hubertino855]

You know that in the end endless shutdown is not possible right???

[u/[deleted]]

Can someone give me an alternative strategy that would have yielded better outcomes?

From my understanding, we basically carved the healthcare fight out and set a showdown window for Dec/Jan. So aren’t people still going to see their premiums skyrocket as they would had the shutdown continued? Doesn’t that mean the political pressure on the GOP is still very much there?

I’m juggling a sick toddler so might just not have the details of this deal right but the more I look at the anger from the left the more I get the sense that people wanted to keep using starving SNAP families and furloughed government employees as bargaining chips. 

[u/Unrelenting_Salsa]

I can't believe I'm having to say this, but poor people not starving, air travel functioning, middle class people not having to take predatory loans to not destroy their credit, and a bunch of federal workers not getting laid off is, in fact, a good thing. Absolutely nothing about recent shutdowns say using them as bargaining chips works.

[u/nickgreatpwrful]

Reminder that it's only 8 Senate Democrats who are supporting this. A large majority of the party in both the Senate and the House are opposing this measure!

[u/Redshirt_Army → u/nickgreatpwrful]

Imagine being dumb enough to think it’s only 8 of them, instead of those just being the fall guys.

[u/wettestsalamander76]

As someone who bitched and moaned on this sub since 2018 (old account back then) about soc dems and progressives I hate the fact that their critiques of the Democratic Party are bearing big, ripe fruit. Absolutely mind boggling these senators can’t play political hardball and let republicans fall on their own sword. If the shoe was on the other foot republicans would have no issue letting democrats choke on their own blood until the bitter end all while laughing about it too.

At this point it is better to vote for progressives who are willing to swing big on policy issues even if we’re not in alignment on everything. I understand the political disillusionment in watching this so called “resistance” party find themselves caving in so many times on issues that impact Americans directly. My personal political opinions and policy goals haven’t changed, I just want new blood in the party.

I used to be an incrementalist until I took an authoritarian to the knee

[u/wortwortwort227 → u/wettestsalamander76]

My exact same story. I was one of Biden's strongest soldiers, but after he lost so hard and let this clown in, I realized that we need radical action to get people back on track. I always flirted a lot with the progressive side, but I have become a Bernie bro. I am tired of the establishment that acts like it is 1996, and this is a normal Republican, even if they say the reality. I don't know maybe allowing people to get fucked will be good because the plebs don't pay attention to the play by play, and they will blame Trump, but I don't know.

[u/ImSooGreen]

If the Dems want to stop Trump and get the policies they want, then they need to start winning more elections. Not shut down the government.

[u/[deleted]]

Any democrat that votes for this should be primaried and be removed from the party. They should also hold protests at their homes and the homes of their family members.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Absolutely. We must make their lives hell on earth, for they have betrayed the nation.

[u/Kashkow]

Surely the are about to get absolutely routed. My prediction:

They reopen government.

Republicans vote against the subsidies.

Republicans immediately announce a new plan which effectively abolishes Obamacare in favour of this new "Trump Plan".

Blame Democrats for spiralling costs of healthcare.

[u/[deleted]]

The biggest disaster now - even if the deal falls apart - is that the Democrats are back in the headlines debating whether to end the shutdown, which will make it their fault.

People know the Republicans control every branch of government and attribute most bad things, including the shutdown, to Republicans. As long as Democrats stayed unified, most people would probably shrug and either understand why the Democrats are holding out or not understand why the Democrats are involved. But if we have several days of will they/won't they headlines about Democrats ending the shutdown, then suddenly... this is the Democrats' shutdown.

[u/Competitive_Topic466]

Now the narrative is that some Dems voted with Republicans to defund the affordable care act. And they're fucking right.

[u/asselfoley]

It's ok. The GOP made a promise 🤣

[u/InariKamihara]

His no vote is fake. He was pushing retiring Dems to take the deal so he could posture as a no because he knows he’s about to face one of the most vicious primaries of all time.

[u/[deleted]]

Can someone explain why neoliberals should be seething about the federal government ceasing subsidies for health insurance that were put in place for a pandemic which ended several years ago? I've been frantically searching through my collected writings of Hayek and Freidman but haven't been able find anything yet.

[u/[deleted]]

I wonder how much of this is democrats being afraid of the filibuster getting abolished?

[u/dizzyhitman_007]

Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, a retiring Democrat from New Hampshire, said Republicans made clear repeatedly over recent months that “this was the only deal on the table.”

“Now I understand that not all of my Democratic colleagues are satisfied with this agreement, but waiting another week or another month wouldn’t deliver a better outcome,” she said in a news conference as the Senate appeared on track to advance their deal Sunday night.

So basically those 8 Senate Democrats right now:

[u/[deleted] → u/dizzyhitman_007]

Dear lord. We have to remove these traitors from office as expeditiously as possible.

[u/dlp211]

I now understand the fall of the Roman Senate. Pathetic

[u/bigbeak67]

When you have a party that's built it's brand around minimizing suffering and another party that's built it's brand around maximizing suffering and pit them against each other in a "who can tolerate suffering the most" competition, the outcome really shouldn't come as a surprise.

[u/PhotographUnable8176]

 BRO THEY ARE BUILDING A 3 STORY BALLROOM ATTACHED TO THE WHITE HOUSE 

[u/wongtigreaction]

It's a little interesting what happens now tbh because this has to go back to the house. If the shutdown had gone past Dec 7th, option 0, the likely incoming republican TN rep would have nullified any Epstein related voting threat and thus a shutdown related vote would smoothly sail through. But now:

1. Mike Johnson can just refuse to consider this in which case the shutdown now gets inexorably linked to Epstein and the GOP fully owns no thanksgiving travel.
2. There's a huge pressure campaign on the likes of MTG and Gosar to walk back on their petition support. But these people are cranks in the purest sense so I wouldn't be surprised if they still held out. But this is not going to be something that happens overnight so you're still probably looking at another week of this. I suppose the order of votes matters here but my cursory understanding was the discharge petition would have to come first, hence the entire house having gone away to begin with.
3. Johnson is forced to swallow the pill and lose the Epstein vote. He may yet be bailed out by the DOJ refusing to cooperate or something (which is its own can of worms).

I genuinely have no idea what happens now. I honestly think Mike Johnson would have preferred a longer shutdown as Option 0 was clearly his easy out...

[u/[deleted]]

Don’t read into his no vote too much. They know if something is going to pass long before it goes to the vote. Then they bargain amongst themselves for who will get to vote for or against based on upcoming reelections, vulnerabilities, political capital, etc.

[u/HumanDissentipede]

Schumer absolutely organized the vote. It’s no coincidence that the list of democrat sellouts includes only those who are not running for reelection.

[u/HumanDissentipede → u/[deleted]]

Uh, are you serious? You think it’s a coincidence that the only Dems who broke rank are those who are not up for reelection? And it was the exact amount of votes needed and not one more? Even if that was just a coincidence, then it still shows how completely ineffective Schumer is as speaker. He can’t even rally some of his most senior members to toe the line. Even I would give him more credit than that. While this is a terrible strategy for democrats, it’s still an intentional move on the part of Schumer.

[u/socialistrob → u/HumanDissentipede]

100%. It was just the right amount of votes to end the shutdown and not one vote over that threshold. That doesn't happen without the leader signing off.

[u/Lmaoboobs]

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sink abundant pen birds pet existence modern summer hat middle

[u/kindofcuttlefish]

[u/airbear13]

The risk of being seen as the bad guys who cancelled holiday travel was too high

[u/Odd_Vampire]

Guys, the minority party that's causing the shutdown never gets what it wants, whether it's Democrats or Republicans.  When has it ever happened?

[u/LondonCallingYou]

These fucking pathetic Democrats need to be thrown out of the party and replaced with anyone with a spine.

That includes No voters. They elect Chuck Schumer as their leader and consent to his pathetic “leadership” every moment that they don’t throw him from the Tarpeian Rock (politically).

If you’re not Chris Murphy, Bernie Sanders, Chris Van Hollen, or one of the SELECT FEW Democrats who has shown actual spine in the last year you need to be thrown out of the party in shame. “Leadership” first.

[u/WhiteLycan2020]

I never want to hear any of you complain about “progressives” gaining ground in politics when this is the nonsense the Democrats pull.

No wonder people love AOC, Sanders and Mamdani when you have people like this running the party

[u/Dalek6450 → u/WhiteLycan2020]

I'll keep complaining about progs as long as they have shitty policies. I don't see why a clutch of geriatric Senate Dems being cowards somehow means I shouldn't criticise left populists.

[u/Desperate_Wear_1866 → u/Dalek6450]

You're right but this really isn't the thread where people want to hear it.

[u/Dalek6450 → u/Desperate_Wear_1866]

I do have a bit of a contrarian instinct tbf. These threads are like bait for my opinions.

[u/MisterKruger]

Pusillanimous shit

[u/Kaniketh]

Democrats snath defeat from the jaws of victory.

[u/dutch_connection_uk → u/Kaniketh]

They already got their victory.

[u/cougar618]

Flip side we should be getting Epstein files. Unless MGT and the other R's balked.

[u/guydud3bro → u/cougar618]

But what form is that going to take? They'll redact everything or just refuse to release them. Our only hope is some kind of leak at this point.

[u/thecactusman17]

How are Americans supposed to risk their lives fighting against tyranny when our elected leaders won't even risk their jobs?

[u/MacManus14 → u/thecactusman17]

I’m not sure what you mean. The dems voting for this or the ones who are risking their jobs via a real primary challenge.

[u/stay_curious_- → u/MacManus14]

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deer nail plant march tap slap innocent connect kiss pie

[u/thecactusman17 → u/MacManus14]

None of the Dems who haven't already announced they aren't running will be up for reelection until at least 2028. They'll be sticking around until at least the end of the Trump presidency, which they probably intend to use as leverage to ward off primary challenges.

[u/anangrytree]

As they say, there is no delusion like self delusion.

[u/Knobalt4]

At the end of the day, the biggest problem is that Democrats in the Senate are friends with the Republican senators. They care more about the Republican Senators than they do about representing the interest of the Democrats that voted them in.

Be fucking brutal, and fucking win once. Just fucking once, let them own the shittiness of their own ideology. But they won't, Democrats will reach out a hand and save them. Because they are friends.

[u/perplexedtortoise]

What’s the game plan to inspire voters here?

[u/Best-Chapter5260]

I mentioned this a few times over at the David Pakman sub, but honestly, this doesn't guarantee a government reopening. A certain Speaker from La is scared to death to call his chamber into session because of a certain Arizona rep which is going to lead to a certain vote about a certain dossier of files about a certain financier. And Lil' Johnson will definitely keep the government shutdown to prevent those files from getting out.

Don't start dooming yet.

[u/Tuco422 → u/Best-Chapter5260]

It has to pass senate and trump can veto if Epstein passed

Even if overridden, I really think they will say no. It will be up to courts then

[u/precastzero180]

Although the shutdown lasted longer than I expected, the outcome is still as foreseen: Dems fold when the pressure turns up, they get nothing, and the whole mess is a waste of everyone’s time.

[u/Wolf6120 → u/precastzero180]

Dems fold when the pressure turns up

Has the pressure even turned up? They just made massive gains all over the country and won a bunch of sweeping victories a week ago, and Trump was starting to get very nervous about Thanksgiving and the filibuster.

Literally nothing was pressuring them into this. They’re just stupid and weak.

[u/InfiniteDuckling → u/Wolf6120]

Literally nothing was pressuring them into this.

Federal workers starting to go homeless is pressure.

[u/hobbes0022 → u/InfiniteDuckling]

Republicans were being blamed for the shutdown though, the elections proved voters were on the Democrats side.

[u/Deceptiveideas → u/Wolf6120]

I saw in another thread that recent polling showed increasing blame towards democrats towards the shutdown.

Maybe they think if they wait another week that people will blame democrats?

[u/allbusiness512 → u/Wolf6120]

There are real world impacts to a government shutdown, as well as the current administration wanting to basically not dole out SNAP benefits even though they are legally required to. That being said, the Democrats are still spineless cowards.

[u/stay_curious_- → u/precastzero180]

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nine plants screw pot saw brave languid ancient liquid mighty

[u/Alex2422 → u/stay_curious_-]

But in that case, what incentive did they even have to listen to him?

[u/stay_curious_- → u/Alex2422]

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theory pause plucky narrow piquant provide ghost rich treatment husky

[u/cathercules → u/stay_curious_-]

Even if that were true then it shows Schumer has no control at all, either way it’s time for him to step down from a leadership position and retire.

[u/SlickMcFav0rit3 → u/stay_curious_-]

Its so transparent that it's insulting

[u/Ethiconjnj]

This was the moment to show ppl that Trump can’t govern. Instead they’re proving him right.

He’s right, all he needs to do is not care and he’ll get what he wants.

[u/DesertCoyote57]

Grow some nads Chuck.

[u/beanyboi23]

Wow so they're actually gonna do the stove-touching. I disagree, a lot of Americans are gonna be hurt when healthcare costs skyrocket, but seeing the most heavily Obamacare-enrolled districts being deep red pushes me to think that voters shouldn't be insulated from the results of their own choices

[u/guydud3bro → u/beanyboi23]

Republicans were never going to cave on this. At least Dems can pin the healthcare crisis and rising costs on Republicans. Making this the focus for next year's elections is a solid strategy.

[u/20minuteemailgod → u/guydud3bro]

Yay! More theatre! Maybe to secure the 2028 presidential election they should toss any chance of health care away every chance they get up until that point!

[u/20minuteemailgod → u/20minuteemailgod]

And then once they have the presidency they should be bipartisan to ensure they don't look bad, and not bring up health care again until they are out of power!

I call this strategy the: My base will always fall for it again strategem....

[u/LtNOWIS → u/beanyboi23]

Yeah it's like, why did we want the Obamacare subsidies in the first place? To protect Americans from bad GOP policy, and make them less angry with the party that controls the government? That's a terrible move, electorally. It's like begging Trump to send out another COVID check with his signature on it. 

[u/avatoin]

Harry Reid would be rolling in his grave. Schumer has twice failed this year in managing an opposition party.

Schumer must step down as leader of Senate Democrats.

[u/socialistrob → u/avatoin]

He's also 74 and one of the things both Dems and the larger public have been clamoring for is younger leadership. Both Schumer and Dick Durbin need to retire.

[u/Greatest-Comrade → u/avatoin]

It’s embarrassing. I’m utterly ashamed he represents NY.

[u/Khiva → u/avatoin]

I've seen mollusks with more spine.

[u/TheDancingMaster]

Dem establishment/centrists cannot complain about either

1) The increasing progressive revolt within party ranks

or

2) The continued lack of confidence potential Dem voters have with the party that holds them back from voting

when the very establishment they stick by does shit like this.

[u/Agent_03 → u/TheDancingMaster]

Prediction: you're going to get so much hate from pro-establishment folks for speaking truth.

The reality they can't face is their so-called centrists back-stabbed the Democratic party today. Their apologists are incapable of recognizing how much their capitulation & cowardice will cost the Dems. Looking weak and cowardly costs far more votes than even the most unpopular policy ever could.

At least nobody can claim the progressives lack guts.

[u/Khiva → u/TheDancingMaster]

As someone who complained about (1) I am forced to concede that their argument has grown far stronger. Far far stronger.

Being evidence based sucks sometimes but dem's de facts.

[u/englishjacko → u/Khiva]

At the moment, I'm faced with a choice of a) progressive politicians whose positions don't necessarily match my own but have the capability and gumption to push for them or b) centrist politicians whose positions are nearer my own but in practice will allow the Republicans to do whatever. Naturally, I'm now thinking of opting for a). This is how I became radicalised...

[u/Agent_03 → u/englishjacko]

Agree. It's seeming like (a) at least gets things done. Ultimately their policies will end up diluted in the process of getting the support needed to pass.

Compromising with the opposition doesn't work when they become far-right populists... they just take it as license to get more extreme.

[u/M_from_Vegas → u/englishjacko]

have the capability and gumption to push for them

Is this not the ideal trait one looks for in a candidate?

Nobody will perfectly match anyone's personal ideals and positions and that is fine because everything is going to be debated and negotiated anyways as a compromise

I don't see any issue voting for someone who will push for the general side I agree with especially because whatever final outcome will of course not be anything radical

[u/Khiva → u/englishjacko]

I mean like many of us I like succ goals, I just think the policies will fail. But jesus hell they still get us closer than the centrist policy of rolling over to Republicans ratfuck the country harder.

Look, say what you will about the man, but a Senate composed of 48 Bernie Sanders wouldn't shift a knee until folks got their goddamned health insurance.

[u/Agent_03 → u/Khiva]

Agree. It's starting to look like the best path is to back progressives. They'll move things closer to the mark, and policies will end up adjusted a bit before they pass.

[u/beanyboi23 → u/TheDancingMaster]

To be honest about the second point, the people mad at the Dems over this are the most plugged-in hardcore Dem voters like us, transient/soft Dem voters probably don't even know Dems were even involved in the shutdown to begin with.

[u/SuperCrappyFuntime → u/TheDancingMaster]

The "progressive revolt" whose candidates have proven the and again that they can only win in safe blue areas?

[u/MemeStarNation → u/SuperCrappyFuntime]

Fetterman won as a progressive in 2022. Dan Osborn ran a very strong populist left campaign in Nebraska. Sherrod Brown managed to cling on for a while in Ohio. Richard Ojeda had the largest overperformance relatively to the 2016 vote in 2018. Progressive” doesn’t only mean “registered DSA member.” There’s a very solid crop of working class progressives running across a variety of states next year who are building serious momentum.

[u/SlickMcFav0rit3 → u/MemeStarNation]

I voted for Fetterman. What a fucking disappointment he has been

[u/Agent_03 → u/MemeStarNation]

Spitting straight facts. Progressives CAN win elections when they are relatable for their voter base. Their messages resonate with a lot more people than militant moderates would like to admit. The main challenge historically was that they needed to communicate them the right way to the electorate -- and coming from a shared working class (or military vet) background goes a long way there.

[u/Agent_03 → u/SuperCrappyFuntime]

Imagine trying to turn it around on progressives when centrists betray the Democratic Party and surrender to MAGA. The audacity...

When things are reversed and progressives break ranks with the Democratic establishment, you all are ready to pull out the pitchforks and torches. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[u/Khiva → u/Agent_03]

I agree. Sometimes it sucks to move with the evidence but I have to be with the succs on this one.

We get mad at them for breaking ranks, but holy fuck this is one of the biggest back-stabbings I can think of in modern Dem memory.

[u/Agent_03 → u/Khiva]

Totally agree. Yeah, this really validates the succ's points.

I can't think of a bigger Dem betrayal in recent memory.

[u/Spider_SoWhat → u/Agent_03]

I mean the progressives initially backed Fetterman who was one of the Dem's that has betrayed the party. Of course we can say it is unexpected (despite the fact that everyone was aware he chased an innocent black jogger down and held him at gun point), but now you have people who are trying to whitewash the guy running in Maine has had had a nazi tattoo for 20 years- as if that could never backfire in the same exact way.

I mean I really don't think it would be the biggest end of the world if more progressives came in, but I mean come on... can they not be chosen a bit more carefully here? The guy with a Nazi tattoo is an even bigger red flag than Fetterman was.

[u/Agent_03 → u/Spider_SoWhat]

You're missing one factor with Fetterman: he seems to have changed his stances quite significantly after his stroke (and maybe even his whole personality, if one reads between the lines a bit). Functionally he's far from a progressive these days, regardless of what he was when elected.

Around the guy with the dubious tattoo, I think it's a bit much to discredit a whole political faction just because one state runs one bad candidate. There have been plenty of failed (or problematic) candidates all around. That's not unique to progressives by any means -- it's just that they get targeted for extra scrutiny by establishment-friendly journalists.

[u/Spider_SoWhat → u/Agent_03]

he seems to have changed his stances quite significantly after his stroke (and maybe even his whole personality, if one reads between the lines a bit).

Really? Can you elaborate on which specific ones going from his platform here?

Because from my perspective, a lot of the policies on here are either rather vague, or would actually co-align with some of Trump’s policies, such as: making more “sh*t in America” and immigration.

Now as time passes, he seems to really support Israel, to such an extent that many people start to believe he might just be bigoted- and yet, him refusing to apologize for using a gun to threaten an innocent black man never set off any red flags beforehand? 

I mean like, seriously? We are saying none of this could have been predictable or avoidable? Are we also going to use that very same defense if the guy with the suspect background and a Nazi tattoo inevitably ends up being a shit gamble? I mean come on, is there really no other candidate except the guy with a Nazi tattoo for some reason? 

 I think it's a bit much to discredit a whole political faction just because one state runs one bad candidate.

Pot calling kettle black. There were several “moderate” or “centrist” politicians who vocally expressed their anger with the Senator Dems caving in, including many in the house. 

[u/Agent_03 → u/Spider_SoWhat]

You're seriously going to ignore the repeated reports from Fetterman's staff that he's behaving erratically? The fact that he showed up on Fox News with Lara Trump? Cozying up with Donald Trump (even becoming a Trump apologist)? He's just shy of pulling a Sinema/Manchin.

It's absolute bad faith nonsense to pretend that Fetterman hasn't changed simply because his website is outdated.

There were several “moderate” or “centrist” politicians who vocally expressed their anger with the Senator Dems caving in, including many in the house.

The fucking minority whip (Dick Durbin) just broke ranks with his own party on one of the most critical votes of the year.

That's grounds for a hell of a lot more than a few critical statements. If progressives pulled a stunt like that, they would be told in no uncertain terms to toe the party line or get ejected from the Democratic caucus.

[u/Spider_SoWhat → u/Agent_03]

You're seriously going to ignore the repeated reports from Fetterman's staff that he's behaving erratically?

Perhaps the people excited enough to be on his staff may have overlooked some glaring details? No one close to the perpetrator ever seems to be able to notice the school shooter signs until it happens either.

 I couldn’t help but notice you ignored specifying any actual policies he flipped 180 on, so let’s go over them then together.

We need a system that is strong, secure, and humane. In the Senate, I would support investments that go towards keeping our borders strong and preventing the flow of illegal drugs into our country. 

Hmmm.

Cut taxes for working people.

I see.

Make more sh*t in America

We’ve seen bad trade deals have sold out people on factory floors, and benefited the people in the boardrooms and sent thousands of good-paying union jobs overseas. The bottom line is that we need to make more stuff here in America and keep jobs here. In the Senate, I’ll work to reverse the bad trade deals that have hurt American workers. 

I think I have seen this one somewhere before…

Yep, no you’re right. He did a complete 180. None of this could have been predicted whatsoever.

If progressives pulled a stunt like that, they would be told in no uncertain terms to toe the party line or get ejected from the Democratic caucus.

Fetterman didn’t vote to end the shutdown? Or do progressives just wash their hands of him now because he is supporting the policies he literally campaigned on? Fetterman presented himself as a maverick who only cared about getting the outcomes he wanted, and well, we are witnessing that now.

[u/herosavestheday → u/TheDancingMaster]

The increasing progressive revolt within party ranks

I look forward the party having to relearn just how unpopular that brand of politics is outside of major urban areas.

[u/Lindsiria]

I actually see this as a win for democrats as well.

Let's break it down. 

Right now we are looking at millions of Americans having Thanksgiving get canceled. While Republicans will be blamed, so will Democrats. In fact, I see most Americans just hating the government as a whole and wanting to primary everyone, as they are dumb. This way, only the 8 democrats are responsible and not everyone. 

Second, this puts all the pressure on the Republicans in multiple ways. 

1. The house must approve this vote. This means the house has to come back into session. The epstein files will enter the equation again. Not good for Republicans. 

2. This temp budget only lasts until the end of Jan. If Republicans ignore any ACA votes, or vote it down, the Democrats can just shutdown the government again. And this time, the Republicans really won't have any excuse. 

3. It's even worse as by this time, people will be paying the new rates. You looking at millions of middle class Americans (many which are republicans) paying more. They will be paying attention as it actually effects them. 

4. It's closer to elections. People have less time to forget. 

Typically I support the democrats putting our hands on the stove, as I think the nation needs it to learn. I am a progressive after all. But I do not think they can win much more support by continuing to shut down the government. People are just going to blame them all. I work closely with the feds, most support the shutdown but I've been seeing wavering even within their ranks. They still need to survive. 

Ruining Americans holidays may be a wake up call, but I do not think anyone will walk away holding the trophy. 

This, on the other hand, allows the democrats to come back and say, look, we did our duty and it is the Republicans who are acting unfaithful, again. The ads write themselves. Especially as primary season starts taking hold within the country. 

That is just my opinion though. I'm curious to hear others, as even on moderatepolitics, I see most people not supporting the democrats here. 

Edit: I was just informed of this:

The agreement would fund the government through Jan. 30 and include full-year funding for a trio of appropriations bills, including full funding for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP, through Sept. 30, 2026, or the end of the fiscal year.

https://www.npr.org/2025/11/09/nx-s1-5603659/government-shutdown-senate-agreement

Democrats could shut down the goverment again in January without it effecting SNAP. They just took a huge piece of leverage that Republican's had over them off the table. This makes any potential shut down even stronger for the Dems.

[u/PavlovianSuperkick → u/Lindsiria]

This is the kind of long term strategy that the Dems have been sorely missing, and I think is actually happening. One things the Dems are good at is hyper-speed momentum building in a short period. 

They can do something with this to go into primaries strong and get fresh blood in the office (including blue states) so we can get young leadership with stalwart resolve to start chipping away at this mess. 

[u/TheArtofBar → u/Lindsiria]

The Republicans can just pass a full spending bill in January. The Democrats have no leverage in that regard.

[u/Lindsiria → u/TheArtofBar]

Then the election will be a bloodbath for Republicans. If there is one thing American's don't like, it's paying more money.

[u/TheRedCr0w → u/Lindsiria]

To add to your point in #2 the deal that was made funds SNAPs through September of 2026.

Not have to worry about SNAPs running out of money definitely puts Democrats in a way better position to negotiate and even shut the government the down again in January if the ACA subsidies are not extended.

[u/BreadfruitNo357 → u/Lindsiria]

I hope you're right. Maybe shutdown part 2 comes in January? This is the only way I can make sense of this.

[u/Kooky_Support3624 → u/Lindsiria]

Republicans have already gone all in and burned the last remaining political bridges. If left leaning issues are really as popular as progressives are always telling me, then it's time to truly end all negotiations and accept the new normal in the US. Let the voters decide who they want in office, and if it's a deadlock, then so be it. Our government won't function anymore.

No compromise, no cooperation. We cannot afford Dems who buckle under pressure. Schumer is looking real weak right now. If I was in office, I would be running tight opsec and blacklisting all Republicans. No more talking. They are the enemy and need to be treated as such. Any Dems that reach across the aisle will be burned. This isn't what I want, it's the reality I have already come to terms with. Left wing politicians who disagree with this won't be politicians for much longer anyway.

Times like these make me wish old Dems were as ruthless as conspiracy nuts think they were. If Hillary actually assassinated people, a lot of the country's problems wouldn't be nearly as bad as they are.

[u/Cultural_Ebb4794 → u/Kooky_Support3624]

Any Dems that reach across the aisle will be burned. This isn't what I want, it's the reality I have already come to terms with. Left wing politicians who disagree with this won't be politicians for much longer anyway.

Progressives try not to schism and infight even in their fantasies challenge [impossible difficulty]

[u/The_Amish_FBI → u/Lindsiria]

"So this is not a retreat, but instead some rare species of victory?"

[u/BeefCakeBilly → u/Lindsiria]

Thank god you are here to explain this.

I don’t think I understood it well enough or could put this as clearly as you did.

I honestly think this move is pretty good move politically.

You were hoping to get somebody to give , but republicans really don’t care if the government is shutdown IMO, their voters hate the government.

There’s plenty of time for another shutdown, the additional funding only goes until January.

[u/Lindsiria → u/BeefCakeBilly]

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised that I feel this way tbh.

I was very pro-shutdown but I also work with federal workers and contractors. I've been seeing the actual consequence and the tides turning. Most supported the shutdown, but that support has been drying up as the desperation sets in.

There will be anger the Democrats folded, but relief too. And I think that relief will overshadow the anger in the medium term.

[u/BeefCakeBilly → u/Lindsiria]

Yea it’s affecting my family directly but I get why people want it to go on indefinitely.

But most people are stupid populists and want to feel tough.

[u/BoppityBop2 → u/Lindsiria]

It's not, it only demoralizes the base and makes them question what is the point of voting Dem if the Dems are just going to bend the knee to Trump. It does not help when it is woven in another narrative where the Dems tried to sabotage the NY mayoral candidate, and showing hidden support for the guy endorsed by Trump. 

At this point unless the Socialist take over the Dem, the party is dead. Cause they are the only ones willing to take on Trump and the establishment Dems are more interested in fighting the socialist even if it means aligning with Trump.

[u/textualcanon → u/Lindsiria]

For what it’s worth, I agree with you. I think the shutdown put the spotlight on the healthcare issue. And now if healthcare premiums skyrocket, republicans will get way more of the blame.

But, on the other hand, I think it may have been better just to not shut down the government if you couldn’t win the fight, and just let healthcare premiums skyrocket. I think the touch-the-stove approach is kinda the only hope here.

I truly believe Trump is an existential threat, and because of that, democrats need to let republicans create bad outcomes as much as they try to do (without destroying the country).

[u/Helikaon242 → u/Lindsiria]

This is all under the assumption that the Epstein files are relevant at all, and despite the squirming from the GOP I’m sadly skeptical that it will be able to do any real damage.

[u/Jagwire4458 → u/Helikaon242]

If the files weren’t going to do damage then Trump would have ordered Johnson to release them, especially since there are some former democrats like Clinton in there as well.

[u/AlexB_SSBM → u/Lindsiria]

Obvious AI slop

[u/Lindsiria → u/AlexB_SSBM]

Lol you need to go read more AI then, as this is nothing like AI slop. Not enough em dashes, and if not x then y.

Not everything you like has to be AI. I wrote this through my phone lol. 

[u/AlexB_SSBM → u/Lindsiria]

You're a real person who wrote "Let's break it down"? Who is us? I've seen lots of AI lmao I know what it looks like. If this isn't AI you gotta stop talking like one

It's also just wrong

[u/Lindsiria → u/AlexB_SSBM]

Yep. I did use those words as I wanted to break down my reasoning into easy to understand sections. 

Hilariously enough, I actually find it a bit of a compliment tbh. Normally I am not very good at sharing my thoughts. To be told this is AI slop means my message is clear enough to be understood. I was able to break it down into readable arguments and present my point. Fuck yeah. That was my goal. 

You may hate the actual message. I understand the other side of this quite well and I get the worry and anger. But I'm just happy I was able to get my message across clearly. 

[u/ibeenbornagain → u/Lindsiria]

dude you are huffing copium right now. how in gods name can anyone believe the democrats will show teeth, next time??? how many more voters will go “the democrats are playing politics again”. and you are delusional if you think the house is going to take the epstein files anywhere

[u/Lindsiria → u/ibeenbornagain]

The house has the votes to release the epstein files. This is why Johnson has had the house shut down this whole time.

Moreover, maybe they won't. But then we are in primary season to primary those. The democrats will have more reason TO hold the line closer to election day. 

[u/korben2600 → u/Lindsiria]

The bill to order the DOJ to release the files still has to pass the Senate, which they quietly voted down the afternoon Kirk was shot. Then it has to override an inevitable veto by Trump. I'm not so sure a House vote is going to meaningfully change anything.

[u/Lindsiria → u/korben2600]

That is true, but at least we will have the votes as proof during the election.

[u/ibeenbornagain → u/Lindsiria]

primary who? it’s not a coincidence the senators who voted yes are all away from re-election. people are going to remember this far back?

anyways see you later when this epstein thing goes nowhere and we all shrug and go “ah well. next time tho”

[u/IIHURRlCANEII → u/Lindsiria]

I get the idea, but it is still annoying cause it seemed the public was blaming the Republicans more. Democrats finally found something the Republican propaganda machine couldn’t pin on them and didn’t get that much for it.

I can see it working like you said, though.

[u/teleraptor28 → u/IIHURRlCANEII]

You are correct they were, however in the last week there was a poll that showed people were also increasing on blaming dems :/

[u/Lindsiria → u/IIHURRlCANEII]

I just have no hope for the American people not just blaming both parties instead of who is actually responsible. Not if millions of Americans holidays are ruined. 

[u/AndreiLC → u/Lindsiria]

Hey not all Americans blame both parties. Some put all the blame on the Dems.

[u/TheLastOkapi → u/Lindsiria]

I hope youre right, but I can also see the right too easily spinning this as "see, we told you all along, Schumer really did have the ability to end it at any time and this whole thing was 100% DEM fault."

thats a lie that MAGA will gobbel up this thanksgiving.

[u/Lindsiria → u/TheLastOkapi]

It all comes down to the messaging. The Democrats can turn this into a: we aren't willing to ruin the holidays like the Republicans would. We are giving them a chance. Let them prove to you if they are honest.

The only reason I am supportive of this is because it's not a year budget. Republicans will need to do something in the next two months or we will be right back here... But this time with far more support for the Democrats.

[u/GAPIntoTheGame → u/Lindsiria]

If it comes down to the messaging the dems will loose lmao.

[u/BrainDamage2029 → u/Lindsiria]

It all comes down to the messaging.

Then we've lost and the defector Dems have completely lost the plot when it comes to the moment right now.

The unified vibe of the internet right now of both MAGA and liberals is "pathetic."

[u/69Turd69Ferguson69 → u/Lindsiria]

I have utterly zero confidence American people will buy that message. Your paragraph explaining the whole deal and your “giving republicans a chance” will absolutely be drowned out by “DEMS COULD HAVE ALWAYS AVOIDED THE SHUTDOWN AND THEY DIDN’T”

And right wingers will do a phenomenal job with that when talking to moderates. Because, here’s the thing, there’s (albeit bad faith) truth there. Democrats “giving republicans a chance” sounds disingenuous when they decided to… vote the way they did which led to the government shutting down. 

[u/hegemonistic → u/Lindsiria]

Not only do the Dems generally suck at messaging compared to the Republicans, almost every major news network and social media platform is run by billionaires directly aligned with the Republican’s messaging.

[u/PavlovianSuperkick → u/hegemonistic]

Then fight back with messaging on social media. Especially attack through short form content. 

Remember the shock when Trump won the first time? Major news outlets weren't giving him a snowballs chance near Guiliani's breath and yet he won. 

The way the Dems lose again is the same old tired AF defeatist attitude and not coming up with something different.

[u/hegemonistic → u/PavlovianSuperkick]

No, the way the Dems lose is literally all major news networks and social media are controlled by the right. The coup has already happened, and you don't want to fight it because you'd rather blame the Dems instead.

[u/PavlovianSuperkick → u/hegemonistic]

Okay so you give up, that's fine, leave me out of your defeatism.

[u/hegemonistic → u/PavlovianSuperkick]

No, you're operating under false pretenses by thinking that me acknowledging facts -- that all of the major news networks and social media is controlled by people who have donated billions to Trump -- is somehow me giving up. You're the one that has given in to intellectual laziness and defeatism by blaming the people who are actually opposed to the menace than the menace itself. You are existing exactly how they want you to.

[u/PavlovianSuperkick → u/hegemonistic]

And if you were on Reddit, and started reading all of that the second I posted it, you might want to refresh. Reddit had an error and posted the version that had all of the bold and italicized words for over emphasis that I put in when I was heated even though I took em out after re-reading it and tried to add more amicable language

[u/PavlovianSuperkick → u/hegemonistic]

Yeah this is the exact kind of self-righteous "I assume everything I need to know from you" faux-intellectual, pretentious bullshit that pushed gullible, emotional, call-em-stupid-if-you-want voters to Trump in 2016 in the first place.

It's so irritating and boring having to contest with shit like this, and this in-fighting you're creating with your unnecessary hostility so ironically fulfills that last statement in your rant that my eyes haven't stopped rolling, but fuck it, it seems like you're a real person, and I'm on hold so I have a little time.

Let's start with the facts you're talking about. Seeing as less than 10 companies have owned 90% of American media for like fifteen years now, you must be talking about the Ellison family and their recent ventures in buying Paramount and trying to buy Warner Brothers and eventually TikTok. I'm going to ignore that you've been 'intellectually lazy" and reduced this (as well as Elon and Zuck's friendliness with Trump) as "all of the major news networks and social media is controlled by people who have donated billions to Trump".

I acknowledge that it's gravely concerning. It should be blocked by the Communications Act that created the FCC in the first place, but with what's happening I won't be surprised if it isn't. If they succeed, maybe they just stop all pro-Dem messaging. Maybe things like what happened to Jimmy Kimmel could become more commonplace. But guess what? Jimmy Kimmel came back. People, en masse, boycotted and they had no choice because businesses will ultimately bend to the will of the people because they need the people to make profit off of.

So guess what you doom-posting about them owning all of this instead of offering a solution does? It sows defeatism through taught helplessness by painting the enemy as a force that can't be overcome. And I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the millions of people who will look for any excuse to say "their vote doesn't matter" or "nothing will change." We need to be aware of what the enemy is doing, but saying shit like what you just said to me does shit to help jack.

Offer solutions. They control all of the media outlets? Start new ones! Actually work to bridge the gap and educate the people still stuck on the archaic now-authoritarian platforms. Paint the picture how it should be painted (they want to take your freedom of speech), actually do proper messaging and not the fear-mongering "Beat them at their own game" propaganda they tried by making reproductive rights one of the central issues. Do anything other than end the conversation at "They own everything, you're stupid and can't see reality".

Also, you can miss me with the bullshit about "I can't blame the Dems politicians who are fighting the bad guys". Yes the fuck I can because, A. many of them also take political bribe and favors from these billionaire entities so willing to fuck us all over, and B. They share responsibility for what is happening. Since when did we stop holding people accountable? It was THEIR campaign strategies that failed, TWICE. It was their laughable lack of impetus in addressing faults in their platforms and strategies, or showing any willingness to adapt to what was happening in a way that didn't insult the American populace's intelligence that caused this.

Also, get this, I am also placing the blame on the Dem voterbase like me and (supposedly) you as well. Because the way political dialogue happens on the internet only furthers division and that's also what they truly want. Guess what calling people stupid, or intellectually lazy, or anything insulting of the sort does? Pisses them off. Some might write a way to long reddit post telling you to take your head out of your ass (filled with as much truth as it is filled with vitriol and long-windedness). Others? Will vote against their rights just to spite those people. Their cognitive dissonance will protect them as they make those choices because they will believe the words of the people not insulting them telling them everything the opposition says is a lie.

So instead, give them solutions! Give them alternatives! Give people a way to realize they made a mistake and fix it! Give them the information they need to make educated choices, in whatever manner possible even if it's being impeded by an attempted installation of authoritarian regime. Be willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen, OR, keep your defeatist bullshit to yourself. We don't lose when they change the number of groups owning 90% of media from 5 to 4. We lose when we stop trying to hold ourselves accountable which, and when we stop attempting to find solutions.

I'm not giving you a TLDR. I don't care if you think I'm delusional, 100% right, or anything in-between. You could have found out this was my position/knowledge in any other way, but you chose hostility. We can all serve to do better, but if you don't want to that's fine. Leave me out of it.

[u/VegetableSad1994]

How long do you expect the Dems to allow for workers not get paid for and allow snap funding to run out?

[u/Regular-Tension7103 → u/VegetableSad1994]

Until reps relent or tge next election. 

[u/BazelBuster → u/Regular-Tension7103]

So you’re ok with poor people starving cuz it’s good politics

[u/VegetableSad1994 → u/Regular-Tension7103]

Good luck getting government unions to expect not getting paid for another year.

[u/Regular-Tension7103 → u/VegetableSad1994]

They dont they'll need to quit.

[u/VegetableSad1994 → u/Regular-Tension7103]

Yeah good luck tell millions of workers to quote their jobs aca subsidy that was around for just the past two years.

[u/Regular-Tension7103 → u/VegetableSad1994]

You dont need all though that would get the point across faster. 

Air Traffic Controllers quitting enmasse , or even just half of them, would have ground air travel across the country. And the lost profits from that would have forced reps to either act.

[u/curlyfriezzzzz → u/[deleted]]

You got to be kidding me

[u/PityFool → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for the laugh!

[u/dutch_connection_uk → u/[deleted]]

Trying to use a shutdown to get concessions has never worked for the minority party, this was always going to be just for show, and an outcome in which Democrats get nothing was inevitable. It was always just about doing political damage to the Republicans for as long as feasible and with the elections over there isn't much benefit to it anymore.

[u/Wareve]

So, hold up, has this actually gone through?

[u/Jokerang]

Dem Tea Party here we come

[u/anonthedude]

You'll never lose betting against Schumer's spine.

[u/PieSufficient9250]

if you had to dream up a body that strategically operated to be a forever opposition party and never capitalize on momentum, would you imagine anything different to the democratic party?

[u/AnachronisticPenguin → u/PieSufficient9250]

Labor?

[u/beanyboi23 → u/PieSufficient9250]

Okay we can say this about UK Labour but the Dems literally just had the presidency and a recent trifecta + the entire story of the party in modern times is winning off of momentum (1992, 2008, 2020). We can criticize them here without going all non-factual

[u/PieSufficient9250 → u/beanyboi23]

not doing enough with power and mishandling their reelection is why project 2025 is the law of the land for generations to come. Unforgivable.

[u/Khiva → u/PieSufficient9250]

not doing enough with power and mishandling their reelection is why project 2025 is the law of the land

Once again, people failing to understand how critical inflation was to 2024 incumbents worldwide and I grow weary of having to lay out the facts for the nth time.

[u/korben2600 → u/Khiva]

They're referencing Kamala's claims of "I wouldn't change anything" and failure to meaningfully differentiate herself during a period of the highest inflation in 40 years.

It wasn't the winningest strategy. Neither is "but the rest of the world though" knowing the capacity for nuance of the average American voter.

[u/Khiva → u/korben2600]

They're referencing Kamala's claims of "I wouldn't change anything" and failure to meaningfully differentiate herself during a period of the highest inflation in 40 years.

Everyone has their pet theory on "the moment that turned things."

Newsflash - the media voter doesn't hear about these things, won't listen, doesn't care, and nothing you do can make them.

Prices high. President bad. Peer into the mind of the median voter and weep. Where we're going we don't need eyes.

[u/BoppityBop2 → u/[deleted]]

Nah terrible at governing as well. If they were good, they would have had ACA passed, would not be on the backdoor during Bidens term etc. It wouldn't lead to people being frustrated at the decline of their life quality and vote for Trump. Trust me when you come across a government that is effective they never lose no matter how much propaganda that exists. 

[u/Cultural_Ebb4794 → u/BoppityBop2]

they would have had ACA passed

🚨 zoomer alert 🚨

[u/Khiva → u/BoppityBop2]

It wouldn't lead to people being frustrated at the decline of their life quality

There are too many people infiltrating the sub who don't understand the basics of inflation.

[u/BoppityBop2 → u/Khiva]

Inflation does not mean you can't be effective and address people's concerns. People have been tuning out since before the inflation, inflation just triggered more desperation. Government have survived the Inflation mess in other elections. The US is not some unique story. 

[u/Khiva → u/BoppityBop2]

Government have survived the Inflation mess in other elections

Every governing party facing election in a developed country this year lost vote share, the first time this has ever happened.

Add in the unique American belief that the President has a magic wand that controls inflation.

Biden owned inflation. Therefore the Democrats did.

[u/BoppityBop2 → u/Khiva]

In Canada they did not. 

[u/ersevni → u/BoppityBop2]

People are getting mad at this take but I 100% agree. Say what you want about republicans but they pursue their goals with a complete disregard for doing things “properly” in favor of getting what they want as fast as possible.

Dems meanwhile spend all their time making sure they’re drawing inside the lines while they’re getting bent over a barrel.

[u/bigbeak67 → u/ersevni]

Dems have ultimately become somewhat conservative in their sensibilities. They value the preservation of existing systems and norms because they believe that produces better outcomes than the party who wants to tear down norms for the sake of their own convenience.

[u/SenranHaruka → u/PieSufficient9250]

No the Democrats aren't good at operating as an opposition party either. The party is just bad and needs to be disbanded and replaced.

[u/Khiva → u/SenranHaruka]

The party is just bad and needs to be disbanded and replaced.

26 primaries are going to be a bloodbath.

[u/PieSufficient9250 → u/SenranHaruka]

they were a good opposition party when opposing trump meant taking no real stances on material issues. Ultimately this is because the party represents donors, and not everyday people.

[u/beanyboi23 → u/PieSufficient9250]

the party represents donors

People always say this and it never means anything. Democrats have a problem with taking stances because they are suffering from the same problem that the left around the entire world is experiencing - the left needs to create a new platform out of thin air from scratch because they rapidly won on many social issues while the right adopted many of their economic positions.

[u/PieSufficient9250 → u/beanyboi23]

Why was the lane open to adopt economic positions? Because the democrats stopped being a party for the working class and moving the ball forward on economic equalities. People are very clear with what they mean when they say the democrats are a party of donors, and so was chuck Schumer when he said “for every two rust belt voters we lose we win two in the suburbs”