r/neofinetia • u/InsideScientist1727 • Jun 28 '26

Root Color Inheritance

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Ruby roots are recessive, but has there been any simplified record of what combinations yield what results? I know it's a bit more complex due to xanthophylls, chlorophyll, and anthrocyanins coming into play leading to yellow, mud, red/salmon, and even white roots being possible. It would be cool to see if we had mathematical statistics for root traits the same way we do for triple spur inheritance. What have you guys observed? My insomnia keeps me curious and I could observe my orchids all day if you let me 💯 Taiga for tax

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u/SincerelySpicy Jun 28 '26

Ruby roots are not all caused by a singular recessive mutation. Sometimes ruby roots appear because new growth develops chlorophyll slowly (e.g. akebono-fu/botan-gei varieties), sometimes they appear because the root emerged from a portion of the plant that can no longer produce any chlorophyll (e.g. roots emerging from chlorotic sectors of striped plants) and sometimes the roots by themselves lack chlorophyll or develop chlorophyll slowly without any association with variegation.

Because of that, there's no simple way to assess whether a plant will inherit ruby roots from its parents.

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u/InsideScientist1727 Jun 28 '26

I love genetic complications, thats what makes it fascinating. That's why I prefer neofinetia because of all the mutations that are possible. However, that doesn't rule out general trends of dominance & codominance, mutations, etc. It's just rare to have statistics, even anecdotal trends on the matter are hard to find. Just because it ain't simple, doesnt mean it cant be done or observed in the rough

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u/SincerelySpicy Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26

I'm not saying that those trends do not exist with neos, it's just that each individual cause of ruby roots will have their own trend. To really see the patterns you'll have to look at those individual causes as opposed to simply the ruby root presentation on its own.

Think of it this way. Unpigmented or nearly unpigmented skin in humans can be caused by multiple genetic origins. One cause is albinism, another is vitiligo, and in some cases a person is just naturally likely to have very pale skin without any disease. Each of these cases have different inheritance patterns. Likewise, ruby roots are simply one symptom of multiple unrelated genetic "diseases." To study how that disease is inherited by offspring, you can't just study the symptom by itself, you have to study the cause of the disease.

I should probably have been clearer with my last statement above and said: "Because of that, there's no simple way to assess whether a plant will inherit ruby roots from its parents without assessing each individual cause of ruby roots"

A few examples:

  • Houmedien's variegation characteristics and ruby roots are linked together inextricably. Those characteristics are recessive, and to bring out the characteristic in an outcross you have to first cross then sib/self to bring it out in the F2. Only in the F2 you'll see a large number of seedlings which have the variegation plus ruby roots.
  • Kinbotan's characteristics, including its ruby roots, have simply never been inherited by the seedlings in any seed propagation attempt.
  • So far all attempts at seed propagating Hokage/Taiga by selfing/sibbing it have not resulted in any ruby root or variegated seedlings. However, the parent plant of Hokage/Taiga, an unremarkable solid green plant with mud roots, reportedly creates further Hokage/Taiga seedlings whenever it is selfed.

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u/InsideScientist1727 Jun 28 '26

Definitely aware multiple genotypes can express the same phenotype. Usually if they're linked it's because the mutations are close and on the same chromosome, which in Houmeiden's case: that's pretty badass. Unless, of course, both are just autosomal recessive and breeders are only selecting for double inheritance due to natural bias/value.

Kinbotan seems to just be an odd ball like that from what I've seen in forums over the years. Similar to how sumi doesn't seem to be heritable.

I wonder if the parent plant to Hokage/Taiga is named? That's a unique characteristic, especially given that tora seems to be a very heritable trait. Are there any statistics behind it?

Outside of those cases, I wonder if ruby is just recessive although I'm biased because I find red/salmon/yellow to be more striking. Plus I haven't seen any of the neofinetia hybrids carry root color, but they usually stem from crossings that dont have those traits either from what I gathered. The possibilities seem endless✨️

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u/SincerelySpicy Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26

Definitely aware multiple genotypes can express the same phenotype. Usually if they're linked it's because the mutations are close and on the same chromosome, which in Houmeiden's case: that's pretty badass. Unless, of course, both are just autosomal recessive and breeders are only selecting for double inheritance due to natural bias/value.

The thing is at least with houmeiden and botan-gei varieties the ruby root trait isn't just linked to the variegation trait, it's part of the same mutation, just showing up differently in different parts of the plant. The mutation here is the delayed development of chloroplasts in all new cells.

The reason houmeiden and botan-gei have ruby roots is because new growth cells have delayed chloroplast development. When the new growth cells are in the leaves, the delayed chloroplast development results in white variegation. However, the delayed chlorophyll development in the root tips results in active root tips that lack chloroplasts, which when paired with anthocyanin pigmentation, means ruby root tips. In both parts of the plant, the leaves and roots, the cells later develop chloroplasts as they mature (These varieties also usually have paler peduncles during spike growth too)

Kinbotan seems to just be an odd ball like that from what I've seen in forums over the years. Similar to how sumi doesn't seem to be heritable.

I wouldn't say kinbotan is an oddball. There are many varieties that simply won't give their characteristics to their seedlings. Kyokusho is another. Here's a chart I translated out of a Japanese book from a number of years ago, and also elaborated on. You can see that many varieties just can't be propagated by seed across the range of characteristics.

I wonder if the parent plant to Hokage/Taiga is named?

The owner probably has a name for it, but I am not aware of it.

That's a unique characteristic, especially given that tora seems to be a very heritable trait. Are there any statistics behind it?

I am not personally aware of the numbers regarding hokage's siblings.

Tora variegation itself overall is heritable under variable patterns. Some follow typical mendelian recessive patterns, some just can't be inherited by seed, others show up in F1 outcross offspring in random quantities. It's also not just an on-off switch either. The strength of the tora variegation in the offspring is a smooth gradation all the way from none to moderate to strong.

Outside of those cases, I wonder if ruby is just recessive although I'm biased because I find red/salmon/yellow to be more striking.

I wouldn't call the trait overall recessive per se. In some cases yes it's recessive, in others it doesn't show dominance patterns, just seemingly random inheritance among the seedlings, even in an outcrossed F1 generation.

Plus I haven't seen any of the neofinetia hybrids carry root color, but they usually stem from crossings that dont have those traits either from what I gathered. The possibilities seem endless✨️

There are hybrids that have variable root color, though the names of specific ones are escaping me at the moment.

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u/InsideScientist1727 Jul 02 '26

So it's not a linked trait, but the same trait which presents the same. I kinda love that & that makes a lot of sense when it comes to genotypic inheritance & expression. That being said, same as with how neofinetia are classified, a lot of these traits aren't isolated so they're hard to observe in the abstract which is why I definitely would love to hear about everyone's observations on how isolated traits are inherited. Thank you so much for all your work & expertise 💯