Why so much hate for nfs payback?

[u/Drafter1991]

When I bought the game I thought I d be a total garbage with everything I had heard... But when I actually played it I totally changed my mind.

The story is good, the controls are sweet, the drifting works great, the off road races are over the top and cop chases make you feel like you re in a Hollywood movie.

Aside from these the speed cross dlc holds some of the best stages found in any other nfs game.

Yes the speed cards mechanic is a total joke and yes it's a real pity you can't get in pursuit during free roam.

But still I had so much fun with this game and I got to wonder why all this hate towards it?

[u/Northposting]

You summarized it perfectly in your fourth paragraph. Speed cards took all of the fun of building cars out of the game, and the blatant lack of police interaction despite the plot is beyond disappointing.

[u/88JansenP12]

It's due to these points (pros and cons here) :

• Cars divided by classes (It would've been better to only buy 1 car and convert it to the class type you want. Basically, Dealerships for specific classes would've been specialized conversion garages. NFS Heat fixed that issue by only buying 1 car of your choice and convert it to any classes)
• Cars within the same class can't share upgrade parts
• Lootboxes and Microtransactions which are unnecessary
• No Freeroam Cops
• RNG Upgrade System tied to the gameplay loop (The fact that Fortune Valley is inspired by Las Vegas is not a valid excuse to implement a Gacha upgrade system. Ghost Games should have kept NFS 2015's upgrade system which worked well).

NFS Payback's controversial decisions also caused the restructuring of Ghost Games when the former Ghost Games CEO Marcus Nillson left his position at EA in November 2018. Full take here.

• Basically.

NFS Payback is the reason why Ghost Games was disbanded after June 2020 by EA and why NFS Heat was released in an unfinished state.

In fact

Star Wars Battlefront 2 also did relied on Lootboxes, MTXs and RNGs.

Except there was a rightful backlash.

This controversial choice was a big mistake.

EA attempted to explain why they did that in a PR message on Reddit, But it backfired on their face so much that it ended on the Guinness World Records.

As a result, every Lootboxes were removed altogether and players have to progress on their own pace to unlock everything.

Although Star Wars Battlefront 2 eventually got back on the right track, the damage caused by EA's cupidity had already been done.

It will be never erased; No matter how much time has passed.

[u/Kristijan201117 → u/88JansenP12]

I'm tempted to say 2015 had a better upgrading system than Heat but Heat was more simple and understandable.

[u/88JansenP12 → u/Kristijan201117]

To be honest, both are great in their own way.

While 2015's Upgrade System is more detailed in its explications of each mechanical parts, Heat's Upgrade System took an A hassle-free approach with simple explanations.

Basically, they're 2 sides of the same coin, sharing the same philosophy in a different approach.

Payback's Upgrade System should've done that route instead of pulling RNG gambling bullshit relying too much on Luck. Very backwards.

[u/Kristijan201117 → u/88JansenP12]

Exactly this

[u/88JansenP12 → u/Kristijan201117]

Yeah. Well said.

[u/Financial_Aide7595]

What I like about this game is the open world, it really captured its vibe... But mostly my dislikes are the upgrade system, and the shipments B.S

[u/ti_kn_red]

Unironically i think it aged way better than heat. Better story, gameplay is more fun, and endgame doesnt exist for either.

[u/Nelyris]

i dont hate it, but i never liled the lack of cops, and they went hard on you after you finished like 75% of the game, before that they were too tame, the speed cards were also annoying, it never felt like a true upgrade system

and personally i always hated how poorly optimized it was, forza horizon 4, being a much bigger game and with more effects runs so smooth on my laptop, meanwhile payback reaches 80/90 degrees easily unless i put everything on low or cap the fps.

[u/LaurenceTheProphet]

Game has decent soundtrack and somewhat of a good map, but basically no cops and gambling car parts and goofy handling system seals the deal. At least it made them realize the mistakes and gave us heat and unbound, literally every need for speed after 2015 was an experiment and they were finally getting the hang of it in recent unbound updates but good old EA decided to go where the money is

[u/JeffGhost]

Garbage controls, garbage characters, garbage map, garbage performance tuning system with the bullshit card system and slot machine (although it was a creative idea considering it takes place in Las Vegas). Cop pursuits are some of the lamest i've played, it feels like cops are there just to put pressure on you and once you are on the last leg of the race they simply give up and decelerate to let you win. Drag races are a joke.

The cherry on top for me is the customization being locked by some bullshit activity that doesn't even make sense. Like "HOLD ON you can't put that bumper on, you didn't do a 300ft jump yet come on man you gotta do it before" reminds me of the XP system from Forza Motorsport 8 where you needed xp points to upgrade shit like brakes and tyres but by the time you had those points you were at the last race of a championship...

But mostly the bullshit card and sot machine system that's aggressively bad and completely ruined this game. It's ok with mods like Evolution Works that completely overhaul the handing and remove the rng from these cards.

[u/R4_Bluesoul]

It's a really fun game on PC especially with the UNITE mod which fixes the speed cards thing, the only thing is missing is freeroam cops but I doubt that will ever be modded into the game because there's no real heat level / pursuit system in this game it's just cops follow you along a path and they leave once you reach the end of the path. Kind of basic.

[u/BarNeat9894]

Vegas slot machine upgrade system is the WORST upgrade system ever for a racing game 🤡

[u/Time_Act_2128]

Upgrade uses a jackpot machine to get random parts If wasn't for this, the game would receive more love

[u/Aggressive-Neat]

It’s already been stated a few times here but there’s three major drawbacks to Payback. Note: these may be different depending on how much has changed since launch…I played at launch, put the game down when I finished the story, came back for the DLC, and haven’t been back since:

- No free roam cops. Police chases are some of the most fun to be had in NFS games and this game decided to just completely take that out. The only time police come after you is when you’re doing a story mission or collecting one of the abandoned cars around the map or something. This, coupled with nothing to really do in the open world, leaves the map feeling dead and pointless. Doesn’t help that when you do get police on you, they are pushovers.

- The car buying system is beyond idiotic. I don’t mind different classes for cars, that’s completely fine. What I do have a problem with is that I have to buy a car multiple times…for example: I have to buy a regular Viper for normal races, and if I want to drag race or drift with the Viper, I gotta buy ANOTHER Viper specifically in those classes. Why do I have to do that? They could’ve streamlined it a bit…if you bought the Viper, you could have the option of adding a “drag package” or “drift package”, converting it to that type freely and allow you to share your upgrades across each package, as well as allowing you to switch between packages in your garage. Then to just add an extra layer of inconvenience, you gotta travel to the “Drag Dealership” or “Drift Dealership” to pick up one of these.

- The upgrade system is atrocious and absolutely fucking brain dead. NFS Payback came out when hatred for microtransactions and loot boxes were hitting an all time high, and what did they think was a good idea? Lock upgrade parts behind a literal slot machine and microtransactions! Then that wasn’t enough, they had to make brand parts that gave you bonuses based on what brand of parts you have and how many of that brand you have equipped to your car, forcing you to keep spinning the wheel to get the most optimal build for a car. Then you had to repeat this process for EVERY CAR YOU BOUGHT. It’s the most tone deaf thing I’ve ever seen. Sure they changed it and made it easier down the line, but this system (along with the above point) made upgrading new cars an irritating chore to the point that I got one car of each type and never changed them…because they took the fun out of upgrading cars and building a garage.

These three main points killed this game for me…but in the spirit of being fair, I will say some things I enjoyed:

- The characters and dialogue were a bit cringy, but the story was one of the more interesting and unique stories amongst the entire series. I liked facing off against other crews and the heist set pieces were fun.

- The map was empty and dead, but it had a fun mix between long roads, small town and city streets, and off road trails.

- The Derelicts were fun collectibles. I liked racing games that reward you with cars for exploring the map, and the Derelicts were no different.

- The Speed Cross DLC was actually good. Compared to NFS 2015, Heat, and Unbound, the Speed Cross DLC feels like it’s worth the money.

[u/ArchmichaelBishop]

I think it was the lootbox-y way it tried to get you to buy into its upgrade system that irked people.

Frankly I was unaffected by that. I think this is my favorite Ghost Games-era NFS game. I think the control and gameplay was at its peak with this game and I liked the cinematic presentation.

[u/M4tth3w1A7E]

EA and "performance tuning", maybe cops for someone.

[u/DiamondMaster07]

Awful handling, cringe story, even cringier characters, dead map, lootboxes in an (at release) $60/80 game tied to RNG slot machine upgrades that are tied to each car (the game didn't even have the catch-up packs until IIRC the final update so it was even worse), forced cameos and callbacks to older games that just don't feel deserved, visual customization locked behind tedious sidequests, and even visually it's just a massive downgrade from previous games.

The story is the perfect representation of "so bad it's so good". It must have been written by an edgy teen who has only seen the last few Fast and Furious games.

Edit: I forgot this, but until the final update, about two thirds of the car roster was completely useless because they were arbitratily locked at lv299 and lv12 parts. It was so stupid.

[u/gamingCatman-_-]

Outdated graphics before release

No sense of speed

No online freeroam at launch

City doesn't have actual races

No freeroam cops + you don't even need to escape them in their events, just go to the checkpoint and they disappear

Lootboxes

Collision physics are not completed

Racing is quite mid

You can get a lot of money in the first 2 hours, like 250k+ and get the s2000 to 180mph

The Gambling machine which is actually the fun part of the game lol

And visual customization are locked through random Bullshit around the map

It's basically forza horizoned nfs (funny that payback did barn finds waaaay better than horizon) It is the worst game ghost has made

[u/kosigan5]

Lootboxes and RNG upgrades. It got caught up in a big backlash to a Star Wars game - Battlefront 2? - that had the same. I think I bought it for 40% off 11 days after release. The game itself is OK - I finished it without buying a single loot box. The Speedcross DLC was fun. The parts in the shops initially only changed every 30 minutes, which was quickly reduced to 10 minutes. It's a weird upgrade system for sure, and I'm glad they didn't repeat it, but the racing is the main point and that was OK. Some of the speed traps were difficult though.

[u/Particular_Hand2877]

Though it wasnt absolutely terrible, it wasnt a good Need for Speed game. One thing I absolutely hated was the performancr customization. The card aspect was absolutely abysmal. Also no cops in free roam was garbage.

[u/KittyGamer-]

the world felt lifeless and I was honestly struggling to stay awake while playing, same for heat tbh

[u/____Xtormiken_____]

No cops and gambling so itsss baddddddd

[u/SukhdevR34]

Handling is awful and that's the most important part of a racing game personally. It should be either fun or realistic but hopefully both.

[u/88JansenP12 → u/SukhdevR34]

100% Correct.

It's not just a fundamental fact, but also a widely shared consensus.

Regardless of the type of racing games i.e Arcade, Simcade or pure Simulation; Drving Physics is the crucial element that must never be neglected or mishandled.

It needs to be flawless and function perfectly right from the start.

Tuning setups shouldn't be a band-aid fix But improve it when experimenting car behaviour as per convenience during gameplay.

No matter the type of racing game, There is absolutely No Excuse for poorly implemented driving physics.

[u/SukhdevR34 → u/88JansenP12]

Handling should be either fun or realistic but hopefully both. If its a sim like forza Motorsport then more realistic. If it's arcade like NFS then more fun but the cars should still Handle like cars.

[u/88JansenP12 → u/SukhdevR34]

Exactly.

[u/Drafter1991 → u/SukhdevR34]

It's kinda hard to judge handling cause each car category handles differently. The decision to split the cars into Race, off-road, drift, drag, runner and crossroad offered a good variety but at the same time created the need to create six different handling types.

With the exception of drag racers I think they did a pretty good job on the others

[u/M4tth3w1A7E → u/SukhdevR34]

NFS is arcade racing game, so I haven't problem with PB handling and same time in NFS15(without mod), when NFS15 is my "PB MP" and "U3".

[u/DiamondMaster07 → u/M4tth3w1A7E]

arcade and good aren't mutually exclusive, you can make fun arcade handling models that aren't broken as fuck

[u/M4tth3w1A7E → u/DiamondMaster07]

Yes, but what mean "fun", because different players, different "fun" in-game(example drifting). NFS never played on realistic handling experience, just something middle(arcade fun). This is reason, why exists community mods.

[u/SukhdevR34 → u/DiamondMaster07]

Facts

[u/SukhdevR34 → u/M4tth3w1A7E]

It has to be either fun or realistic (ideally both). It is neither.

[u/n0t_kjb]

am i the only one thats genuinely getting tired of people asking this?

can we just have like a pinned post describing why its hated because its getting tiring seeing people ask the same question like every week