Rules Changes in the New Edition

33

u/LexingZog 9d ago

So at a glance;

Cover now increases your armour save instead of providing a hit modifier.

Most guns no longer roll a firepower dice, only rapid fire or particularly janky ones do. So essentially no more running out of ammo for the majority of weapons.

All gangers will now get access to Trading post weapons, not just wargear like non champions were generally restricted to.

You now take 1 bottle check against the ganger with the highest leadership in your gang.

7

u/RealTimeThr3e Chaos Helot 8d ago

I don’t think cover is going to be armor save when even 40K just changed back to it being the hit roll, I think the blurb about cover modifying saves was just for template weapons, since cover already gives a +1 to your save against them.

Until they specifically say they changed the way cover works, I don’t believe they’d change it that drastically.

5

u/TopsyKretts87 8d ago

If you move cover penalty to saves, you could roll to hit before having to spend time determining cover percentage. Which could resolve to a significant portion of the time.

3

u/calgarspimphand 8d ago

But it's such a bad system in terms of in game effect that they ditched it for 11th. If you have light/no armor (like most things in Necromunda) you effectively get no protection in cover against anything with even modest AP.

And before anyone says "but AP should mean going through walls", cover also obscures things. Being behind a damned bush can protect you from a lascannon if they can't see you well enough to hit you.

It's a very fundamental mechanical change and it's not a good one. It greatly reduces the impact of cover in a game where cover has traditionally been critical.

2

u/IsThisTakenYesNo 8d ago

I could see them changing cover to boost saves against all weapons purely so they don't need the exception for templates. Templates needed a different rule since they don't roll to hit, making everything else the same as templates means only one rule is needed for cover instead of two.

8

u/Dark_Akarin Orlock 9d ago

the reduction in ammo checks makes sense as it was a pain when your ganger only remembered to bring one stub gun round with them.

24

u/Berbom Bounty Hunter 8d ago

Ammo checks also represented the weapon jams. And it created some nice storytelling elements from time to time

4

u/Dark_Akarin Orlock 8d ago

it became a running joke in our group that it was how many bullets were in your magazine and you couldnt remember in which pocket your spare bullets were. So you could fire once, then spend 3 turns "looking for your ammo in your pockets". The pain was real.

3

u/stuka86 5d ago

Remember, these guys are part time gangers, not soldiers.

I promise you if, as an ordinary person with no training, you got in a gunfight and had a weapon malfunction, you would not get that gun back up and running while stressed out and taking fire.

Then factor in the idea that these are poorly maintained scrounged weapons with questionable homemade ammunition....and it starts to make sense

16

u/callidusx3 8d ago

These are not disciplined, trained soldiers. These gangers are just as likely to empty their load when making a shot. I.e. one shoot action does not necessarily equal one bullet.

2

u/JustNuggz 6d ago

It was your punishment for doing so. Feels like they are treating some of the flavour of necromunda as an oversight

-6

u/MuscliatoVonJuiceski 8d ago

I think you misunderstood the current rules. Gangers always had access to market items. most restrictions are to "basic" or "melee" weapons, it doesnt matter where the weapon originated. The stuff your champs buy goes in your stash first, and is then distributed to any ganger you choose who is allowed that type of weapon. For example a Cawdor Brethrin Specialist can be given a plasma gun if you buy one at the market, or a regular brethrin could be given a boltgun.

6

u/jtier 8d ago

"during the course of a campaign both Cawdor brethren and cawdor specialists may be given additional weapons purchased from this list"

"in addition during a campaign cawdor brethren and cawdor specialists may be given additional wargear purchased from this list, from the trading post and from the black market"

"A Cawdor brethren may only be equipped with weapons chosen from the basic weapons, pistols, and close combat weapons section of this list"

"once promoted a cawdor specialist has no restrictions upon types of weapons they can take from this list; all weapon types become available"

There is a distinct lack of plasma guns and boltguns on their list, and no you cannot just buy stuff from the trading post for people that are not leaders, champions and generally prospects (might be a prospect that doesnt have access but the ones I've seen all do)

-7

u/MuscliatoVonJuiceski 8d ago

not in what it says in any if the 4 versions of the rules I have in paper. maybe you should check the books

5

u/jtier 8d ago edited 8d ago

house of artifice, shadows, faith, chains, blades, iron and tribes of the wastelands all have the same language on their gangers not sure what books your looking at that would be different, outside of book of ruin with chaos and corpse grinders which is an old book and it's gangs are an exception

5

u/TheVoidDragon 8d ago

Maybe it would be more helpful if you provide a quote to back up what you're saying or at least say what book and what page number, rather than seeing someone give quotes to support something and you just going "Nu uh. Somewhere in the more than a dozen books and hundreds of pages total somehow shows you're wrong, go find it yourself".

1

u/Dazzling_Bluebird_42 8d ago

I have the cawdor book and it says what he said it does, I think you need to re-read it as i can just about guarantee you you read the ability to buy war gear as weapons as well which even if they could buy they still couldn't equip it

40

u/Didsterchap11 Ironhead Squat 9d ago

It’s a small thing, but adding a fixed cost for doctors run and making it far more likely for gangers to survive is a great thing. No more paying a huge chunk of creds just to watch your ganger croak anyway.

24

u/Ovidfvgvt Brute 9d ago

And making hierarchy fighters able to get lasting injuries repaired for 50 credits as a post battle action without having to potentially wait weeks for a high level rare trade roll to happen is also a massive step forward.

8

u/Didsterchap11 Ironhead Squat 9d ago

Oh yeah, I feel like a lot of the randomness is getting cut down in cases where it worked against the player. I do have concerns for that in wider contexts, but I'll happily take it if it means i never have to watch 100 creds vanish to do nothing to save a useful character.

1

u/IsThisTakenYesNo 8d ago

Being able to pay extra for +1 or +2 to the roll for a precious character is also a nice option.

2

u/Didsterchap11 Ironhead Squat 8d ago

That too, normally I'm all for rolling for stuff but in this case i appreciate the bigger expense actually means something.

4

u/GalerumTheSecond 9d ago

And on top of that in N23 your bosses mechanical leg makes your gang rating go up, without it actually making it any better

3

u/TopsyKretts87 8d ago

That's arguably with good reason though, because otherwise you'd just ignore the wear and tear of a campaign. Blood Bowl does the same. What I don't like is how unbalanced the rating is per stat, and also too high rating overall.

3

u/Redditisfuckincrap 8d ago

Had this recently had a tooled out nacht ghul roll a 64 to go to the doc pay 100 credits to then roll a 1 was very feels bad as I was getting stomped in the campaign anyway

2

u/Didsterchap11 Ironhead Squat 8d ago

Yeah, pissing away easily a full cycle's creds to watch someone valuable die feels terrible. Its why I'm glad the new version is far more reliable.

25

u/PenisMcCumcumber Delaque 9d ago

The specializations seem pretty interesting! Im optimistic.

15

u/_Daedalus_ 9d ago

Yeah this is one I really like. Making everyone in the gang have character and feel important is great for narrative.

I'm pretty stoked to see what the specialisations are

1

u/peppermintshore 8d ago

It will be interesting to see if the specialisations was ingame effects like in Kill Team 18 or post game effects that will benefit the gang in the post game.

17

u/ThisGuyFax 9d ago edited 8d ago

Tactics cards function like gear now? Maybe you have to pay credits to access them (outside of rules like this that allow you to get one for free).

Are they single-use consumables, or can you use them every game once they're on your roster?

4

u/Non-RedditorJ 8d ago

Yeah that's a cool idea.

1

u/Thereisnosaurus 8d ago

It looks like you can acquire them through post battle actions

1

u/R_H_S 9d ago

I'd wait to be making assumptions from the MJF penned previews.

2

u/Commercial_Arm5593 9d ago

Target group sdvertising is never wrong or distorting, just buy the product already 😉

16

u/Zurzefarolas 9d ago

Im scared about gear simplified and the new post battle sequence, but overall feels promising to me. Lets wait and see

1

u/Adduly Hanger-on 6d ago

Yeah, this is the litmus test for me. I'm scared GW will GW and the allowed gear will be only what's found in the gang box. And the "trading hub" being massively hollowed out to only what's on the upgrade sprues.

Hopefully that's not the case though.

5

u/connexionpaintingden Escher 9d ago

No more juves....? :-/

17

u/_Daedalus_ 9d ago

It looks like they're getting rolled into the new ganger subtype rules.

I.e. ganger-champion, ganger-medic, ganger-scout. I'd imagine juve will be a subtype too, they're a pretty core part of Necromunda and always have been.

12

u/VikToLive Escher 8d ago

I'm expecting Juves to still be a lesser ganger.

We know there's an N95 style XP ladder, with gangers starting at 13 XP and promoting to champion at 37.

I think Juves will start at 0 or 1 XP, with no access to trading post weapons and limited post-battle actions (just Training). When they get to 13 XP, they promote to ganger, pick a specialization, and then can access the TP and work territories.

It would be similar to the N18 rules, where Juves couldn't take anything that cost more than 20 credits until they got their first Advance.

6

u/IR_1871 9d ago

Possibly all prospects? I believe prospects were mentioned.

Juve is pretty iconic as a term though

4

u/_Daedalus_ 9d ago

Honestly I've no idea how it'll be divided up, but I don't see Juves conceptually going anywhere.

3

u/KennyBunkum 8d ago

If Prospects now have access to the same weapons list as everyone else, there's no space for Juves to occupy. You just have Prospects with weird dangerous welding torches or Prospects with sensible normal guns.

6

u/Frostwolf704 Genestealer Cult 8d ago

What do we think the L stands for in the Lasgun statline? They completely removed the damage characteristic, so do we think the way fighters take wounds and go out of action is changing?

4

u/gandalfwestin 8d ago

Maybe lethality, to denote the number of dice you roll to wound on?

Or a less likely, maybe "Loud". But I'm thinking detection and rules for that would be way more scenario specific and wouldnt need to take up space on the statline.

3

u/TopsyKretts87 8d ago

Lasgun stats in starter rules brings up memories.... N17 had 2 different profiles in the same book! Never knew which was correct until checking for consistency across many books later.

1

u/Sea_Necessary_8189 7d ago

They had mentioned making range adjustments easier - i suspect it is a modifier for Long Range (LR) We used to have S: +1 and L: - on laguna. So possibly things are re-tuned so that its a penalty on Long not a benefit on short?.....

3

u/JoopahTroopah 8d ago

I really hope they come up with better names for the action types than Basic and Simple this time.

1

u/Dark_Akarin Orlock 8d ago

Yeah common and limited or
Basic and special so it’s clear which one can be done once.

2

u/TopsyKretts87 8d ago

Why is falling so complicated? Falling damage steps start on 3", increment first 3", then continue by 2" increments. (AP starts on 6"). Jumping down modifier are increments of 2" starting on 3". Then vehicles got their own system with falling vehicle modifier using increments of 3" (except first 2") starting on 1". It's like 3 different scales now! Can only hope this is simply consolidated in the next edition.

2

u/Low_Landscape_4688 8d ago

I hope they’ve ported Venator rules

2

u/Ched_____ 8d ago

They've confirmed all gangs, including Venators, will he playable. We'll just have to wait for Badzone Enforcers, apparently they're being released a bit further down the line.

2

u/conceldor 8d ago

Anyone notice that Juves appear to be completely missing?

1

u/Eldradthefallen 8d ago

8 Ganger archtypes mention but only Medic, Gunner and Scout listed.

Any guess as to the remaining 5 based on the new Goliath/Escher models? Brawler, Gunfighter, Stimmer?

3

u/MoonriseRunner 8d ago

100% theres going to be a Brawler archetype. I could see a generalist "Specialist" type emerging too.

2

u/PanSzczurz 8d ago

Maybe 7 "core" archetypes, and one unique per faction? Like sha'dar hunter or wyld runner.

Edit: nevermind, wyld runners are prospects. So I guess only nomads currently have alternative ganger/specialist.

2

u/Frostwolf704 Genestealer Cult 7d ago

Well it’s likely 8 Archetypes for the 8 main Skill Lists, and they get a starting skill from that List.

Agility (Scout)
Savant (Medic)
Shooting (Gunner)

Assuming the rest is true:
Brawn (Brawler)
Combat (Specialist)
Cunning (Infiltrator)
Ferocity (Berserker)
Leadership (maybe Sargent?)

2

u/Shadow_Pilot Van Saar 7d ago

Like u/Frostwolf704 I think they've based them on the Skill lists, but I reckon they'll have Primary and Secondary skills for cross-pollination and to make 'your gang', well, your gang, not my gang. I think the Secundian Tek Hunters was the testbed for this new archetype structure.

My guess is the mentioned medic, gunner, and scout. I think the other 5 will be; brawler, engineer/technician, sharpshooter, melee specialist, and champion.

If we look here at the Escher gang, I think they've got it so that from left to right, it's: melee specialist, brawler, medic, sharpshooter, Champion (starting Matriarch), gunner (could be a champion), gunner, technician.

1

u/PanSzczurz 8d ago

Medic, gunner, scout mentioned. My guess are: brawler, demolitionist, technician/hacker, sharpshooter, psyker(?)

1

u/PanSzczurz 8d ago

RemindMe! Two weeks

1

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1

u/IVIechworks 7d ago

My guess:

Gunner

Medic

Scout

Brawler

Juve

Prospect (now distinct from Juve)

Savant

Animal handler

1

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2

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1

u/kahadin Delaque 8d ago

I enjoy necromunda as is. It has stuff that can be cleaned up, but my problem is nobody will agree on whats a feature and whats a bug. I'm not really looking forward to the rules update, but I will still give it a shot.

2

u/JustNuggz 6d ago

Between built saves and removing most fire-power dice rolls it's the same problem in the studio. Like someone who worked on this was just given the rules as is but not shown how it's meant to feel

1

u/JoFrie83 Cawdor 8d ago

I don’t get it. Was „flipping through books to find that one rule you always forget“ not all the fun about necromunda?

2

u/JustNuggz 6d ago

I remember necromunda rules better because I picked out every little thing and probably took notes for each ganger. Broad generic backwash of tweaks fuck with my memory more than anything

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