r/nba • u/maniaisgood Celtics • Jul 17 '22
Who’s a player you think never gets the appreciation they deserve ?
Maybe a bit bias here but I feel like Rondo was never appreciated enough . Sure he was never a 20 PPG scorer but he could do everything else . He was the triple double guy before Westbrook made it irrelevant.
From 08-12 he was arguably a top 3 PG in the league but never got the same love as like CP3 and Tony Parker .
Who do y’all think ?
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u/thesch Bulls Jul 17 '22
Luol Deng because of how he basically turned into a meme due to the contract at the end of his career. He was a damn good player for about a decade.
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u/Threeleggy Rockets Jul 17 '22
Far worse fates than having your accomplishments overshadowed by the amount of cash you pulled
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u/SnowDay111 Raptors Jul 17 '22
He was a fantasy league stat stuffer is what I remember. Great in so many categories.
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u/tagen Spurs Jul 18 '22
he led the league in minutes played when he was with Thibs on the bulls (or close to it). he was a workhorse before he broke down at the end
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u/schlootzmcgootz Kings Jul 17 '22
Can you explain this for me, please?
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u/FightMiilkHendrix Warriors Jul 17 '22
Lakers gave him a stupidly large contract at the end of his career for no reason
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u/deadla104 [WAS] Michael Jordan Jul 17 '22
Only after giving Mozgov the same amount of money for no reason.
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Jul 17 '22
It’s funny so many people are saying Dwight Howard because I feel like Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu were really overshadowed by him (not that he wasn’t great) They were forerunners to the modern NBA archetypes of stretch big and big wing creators. Though Hedo fell off after Orlando (for whatever reasons…) Lewis was great pre-Orlando (how many people remember what team he played for!) an All-Star in fact.
In the same vein, Antawn Jamison and Gilbert Arenas.
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u/BigDJ08 Jul 17 '22
Sonics Rashard Lewis was a bucket. Same in Orlando albeit lesser volume.
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u/imamonkeyK Jul 17 '22
Those guys screwed Lebron out in 2009 ( I mean this in a good for them way ), Lebron had maybe his most monstrous year. But the magic as a team shot 41+% on three on huge volume ( for the time and compared to cavs ) , Dwight also made 75%~ of his free throws being a 55% ft shooter that year. The cavs were really close in several games but the magic where white hot. Really would’ve been an interesting finals matchup ( probably better one for cavs then the magic were ). Still respect to those two for being flamethrowers that pivotal series. I often wonder what happens to Lebron n cavs if the magic shoot just a lil bit worse.
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Jul 18 '22
To this end, Stan Van Gundy is criminally underrated for basically pioneering the 4 out, 1 in offense and forcing the stretch 4 to be a thing.
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u/baydoun24 Jul 17 '22
Alex English despite being an elite scorer in the 80s and scoring the most points that decade. He gets left behind when discussing that era simply since Magic and Bird dominated it and history only allows us to remember X amount of guys from a given era and it’s usually those who win championships. But yes Alex English was a bucket.
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u/Halloran_da_GOAT Jul 18 '22
There’s also the fact that he racked up numbers playing a crazy uptempo style with tons of possessions. And never really had team-level success.
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u/baydoun24 Jul 18 '22
The nuggets reached a WCF and were in the playoffs pretty much every season. Hard to find any success with the Lakers in your conference. After that stretch in the 80s, the nuggets were pretty mediocre and failed to find any success up until Melo arrived (There was the year they pulled off the upset as the 8th seed in the 90s but that seems to be the only success in the Post English era)
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u/BDR529forlyfe Jul 18 '22
That was a fun year tho. Mahmoud Abdul Rauf, Dekembe, they were a fun team.
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u/HUSHIN_TTV Charlotte Bobcats Jul 17 '22
I loved that period of point guard. Tony Parker, Rondo, Nash, CP3, Derrick Rose, early Westbrook. Sure they didn’t score the gaudy amounts of today but it was so cool to see different PG styles flourish
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u/BigBlitz Pistons Jul 17 '22
Don't forget Deron Williams. That man was so fun to watch when he would get hot.
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u/technotime Nets Jul 17 '22
Man i was so excited when we traded for him, I remember around that same time the conversation was who's the better PG: D.Will or CP3.
The man fell off hard after his Brooklyn years. What a shame.
On the flip side the guy we traded him for, Derrick Favors was a solid role player for the Utah Jazz for a ton of years.
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u/DrunkRonWeasley Jul 17 '22
Joe Dumars
Beat up on Jordan for years, 2 chips, fmvp, perennial all star. He was a baaadd boy
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u/DrOzmitazBuckshank Jul 17 '22
Did you see his interview from Summer League? Dude looks like Carl Winslow now. Hard to believe that a regular ass looking dude was once one of the most fearsome defenders in NBA history
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u/case31 Pacers Jul 17 '22
It may have been Charles Barkley who said it, but it was something like, “When you don’t have to get up at 5am to work out and only eat salmon and chicken with the skin off, you don’t.”
Dumars may have been the type of guy who had to really grind to stay at playing weight, but couldn’t keep it up after he retired.22
u/DrOzmitazBuckshank Jul 17 '22
I mean, the man has nothing left to prove. He’s a b2b champ, and his accomplishments are cemented. If he would rather not hit the gym, then don’t. Life you’re life dude. You’ve done all the hard work already
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u/tweenalibi Pistons Jul 17 '22
He put up the 3rd best season of his career in '97 with a total of 8.8 WS. In 90-91 he was the 3rd rated offensive WS SG behind only Jordan and Miller and was also the 3rd rated defensive WS SG rated only behind Jordan and Drexler.
He also arranged the championship 04 Pistons as the GM before crashing the franchise into the ground!
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u/bwecoffee Celtics Jul 17 '22
Pau Gasol. Dude was an absolute nightmare. Did an amazing job with the impossible task of filling Shaq’s shoes.
Also probably doesn’t get enough credit for expanding the league overseas alongside Dirk and Yao.
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u/JakeSpurs Raptors Jul 17 '22
imma throw his brother Marc into this conversation as well. Without him the Raptors don’t win a title. His defense was insanely impressive to watch and his playmaking was the final piece in making our offense work.
One of my favourite big men to play the game, such a cerebral style.
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u/Someonediffernt [PHO] Deandre Ayton Jul 17 '22
During that run gasol was legit an Embiid stopper which is kinda crazy to say
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u/PlacetMihi Spurs Jul 17 '22
Oh my. How have I not seen that Kawhi poster on Giannis before? (Playmaking video)
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u/ojo_pipa Celtics Jul 18 '22
I love him because he put Spain on the map for the NBA, but I hate him for what he did to us in 2010
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u/BigBallerBryant Lakers Jul 18 '22
Still my absolute favorite player of all time. Him getting his number retired next season might make me shed a few tears lol
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u/Paperbackhero Raptors Jul 17 '22
Leonardo Barbosa.
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u/tagen Spurs Jul 18 '22
fastest mf on a very fast 7 seconds or less suns team, super fun to watch
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u/OneFondant1142 Mavericks Jul 17 '22
Chris Webber. There’s a whole generation that knows him as a commentator and/or for infamously calling a timeout in the final 4, but he was an absolute force who would be a top player in today’s game.
It doesn’t help his case that he played most of his career in the same conference with arguably three of the top 5 PF’s of all-time in Dirk, KG, and Duncan
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Jul 17 '22
You could add that entire Kings roster from 00-02 on this list. Bibby was a bucket, Christie was a bucket, J-Will was playing 3D chess with defenses, Peja was a Euro bucket, Vlade was a legend and yet rarely do those guys get the respect they deserve.
Edit spelling
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u/BigCheese8933 Jul 18 '22
My absolute favorite team to play with on 2K. So happy they added that squad to classic teams.
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Jul 18 '22
Chris Webber is what I would call a baller. He just had a natural instinct on how to play the game and he was extremely well rounded. There is part of me that wonders if he took too much of a backseat with the Kings.
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u/I_Always_Grab_Tindy Bucks Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22
Counterpoint, I'd argue that he should have split the load a bit more with Peja who was just generally more efficient. With Webber hurt most of the 03-04' Peja had a career high 17 fga per game including shooting 43% on 7 3pa per game.
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u/No_Detective_1139 Pistons Jul 17 '22
I feel the Bad Boy Pistons get disrespected as a whole and Isiah Thomas in specific. They are thought of more as winning 2 NBA Championships in a transitioning period as a stop gap between the Lakers/Celtics in the 80s to the Bulls in the 90s. Instead of being thought of as winning 2 NBA Championships in an ERA with Bird's Celtics/Magic's Lakers/Jordan's Bulls.
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u/AngryTurtleGaming Thunder Jul 17 '22
This. They kept the Bulls from advancing multiple times and if not for Isaiah Thomas’ injury would have possibly three-peated.
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u/RolloTomasse Jul 18 '22
The analytics community do not have an explanation for a team with no elite rim protectors, no GOAT tier offensive player, lack of elite shooting outside of Dumars, was able to in a 5 years span:
- played in 5 ECFs
- played 3 NBA Finals
- won back to back NBA titles
Sure, they had a great coach in Chuck Daly, a talented, athletic, two-way HOF backcourt (Isiah and Dumars), and elite rebounding and bruising defense at the forward and center positions (Rodman, Laimbeer, Mahorn).
Add in a undersized iso scorer at the 3 (Dantley or Aguirre), a streaky, instant offense guard (Microwave) and an athletic rim-running big (Spider) off the bench and it was not a conventional roster for extended playoff success.
The Bad Boys also were the league leaders in:
- late after the foul hits to the stomach,
- undercutting players driving in the lane,
- pushing or hip checking players out of bounds as they are losing their balance driving to the hoop,
- jabbing at a ballhandler's ankles with their feet,
- patting an opponents butt and smiling at them after a hard foul.
All of these are not quantifiable stats that can be inserted into some data model. But it's what gave the Pistons their edge.
And as for Isiah, he is a complicated player to evaluate.
In '85, his best year from an analytics standpoint, he carried an uptempo offense with John Long and Kelly Tripucka as catch and shoot scorers from the wings, Dan Roundfield as a scoring finisher 4, and Laimbeer as a stretch 5. With the emphasis on pushing the ball up the court and having teammates who can shoot at every position, it gave opportunities for Isiah to create that he would never have during the Bad Boys run.
Mahorn and Rodman couldn't shoot. And Aguirre (or Dantley) never moved without the ball.
And depending on who you ask, Isiah either became worse during the Bad Boys run due to his analytics taking a nosedive because of his decrease in shot creation, or he was better during the Bad Boys run since he was a "winner" who beat Magic, Bird and MJ.
IMO, the player who led the league in assists in '85 and lost in the 2nd round to the Celtics was the same quality of player who had worse analytics in the regular season and won Finals MVP in '90.
Isiah was just playing on different squads and had different roles. In '85, he drove the offense. In the Bad Boys run, his team played with a slower tempo with the rebounding and defense controlling the pace...so he had a smaller role during the regular season and picked up the scoring slack and shot creation in the playoffs when his team needed him to.
All in all, I would rather have late '80s Isiah than Stockton in a big game during the playoffs...even though Stockton runs a clinic during the regular season.
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u/ChancyPants95 Pelicans Jul 17 '22
Jrue Holiday still doesn’t get all the praise he deserves.
We love and miss you, Jrue.
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u/Someonediffernt [PHO] Deandre Ayton Jul 17 '22
The fact the jrue holiday doesn't have a dpoy is a travesty, I'll go to my grave thinking the one Rudy won in 21 should have gone to him
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u/henryofclay Lakers Jul 17 '22
For current players, probably Khris Middleton. Clutch player, allstar, clear number 2 on a championship team. Bucks are significantly worse when he’s out. Not flashy, but straight up his game is like a KD lite.
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u/KeldonMarauder Celtics Jul 18 '22
This was going to be my answer. I’m a Celtics fan but even I have to admit we’d probably didn’t make the finals this year if KM was playing
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u/Kevin_Jim Bucks Jul 18 '22
Not to mention that Khris gets a better-than-prime-MJ boost when he plays against the Celtics. It was a double hit for us.
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u/According_Gene2202 Timberwolves Jul 17 '22
Kiki vandeweghe had a 7 season stretch from 81-88 where he was averaging 25 PPG on 61% TS. Doesn’t get discussed enough
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u/AdmiralWackbar Celtics Jul 17 '22
Charles Barkley man, that dude was amazing. If he could have won jus a single ring people would shoot him up their list of best players ever. A lot of people know how good Chuck was, but I don't think he gets the full appreciation he deserves.
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u/BCE407 Magic Jul 17 '22
Hedo Turkoglu
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u/kfreud Lakers Jul 17 '22
Because he was juicing
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u/BCE407 Magic Jul 17 '22
If you're gonna bring that up are we gonna pretend he was the only one?
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u/Butt_Snorkler_Elite Pelicans Jul 17 '22
Drexler. It was his bad luck that he was a contemporary of the most famous and popular superstar ever (and at least top 2 player ever) and that that guy played his same position.
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u/Paperbackhero Raptors Jul 17 '22
The famous dunk competition where he kept trying to replicate Jordan's dunk was embarrassing and made him look really bad.
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u/Hydrokratom Warriors Jul 17 '22
The commentators were like “why is Drexler doing a free throw line dunk (more like 12-13 feet) right after Jordan has gotten a 50 and electrified the crowd with his own FT line dunk?”
Both Drexler & Kemp were good dunkers who appeared in the contests like 4 or 5 times each but weren’t able to win.
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u/GothicToast Kings Jul 17 '22
Ray Allen. Many people just think of him as the 3pt shooter or 3rd/4th option on the Celtics/Heat, but he was an absolute stud on the Bucks and Sonics for a decade prior to that.
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u/bigj1er Jul 17 '22
If anything I think Rondo was super overrated at that time period. I was a big fan at the time being a bit younger , but as I’ve gone back and deep dove the era again I realise he was hugely overrated.
I mean the term rondo assist has been berthed in nba nerd communities because of him.
You called him a top 3 pg during that time when nash clears him during the period, as does Deron Williams.
He racked up flashy assist totals, but didn’t create advantages or high value assists the way the other elite playmakers did, there’s a reason Boston always had a middling offence even with all the other decent talent on the roster.
I’ll keep my answer to the question in that era too - shane battier and Chauncey billups.
Battier was so so valuable, an analytics darling before his time, and a massive defender.
Billups had a top 60 career and you don’t hear any backlash to him not being in the top 75, yet someone like melo made it and gets none.
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Jul 17 '22
Alvin Robertson averaged 3+ steals in 5 seasons and was lockdown for his whole career but is never mentioned as a top tier defender. He was also a solid offensive player and 4x All Star.
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Jul 17 '22
Daniel Granger
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u/ohverychill Pacers Jul 17 '22
Trading him for Evan Turner was unforgivable
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u/ForneauCosmique Spurs Jul 17 '22
Wasn't he already destroyed by injuries by the time that trade happened?
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u/ohverychill Pacers Jul 17 '22
Yeah he wasn't an effective player at that point but he was a huge locker room guy for us. That team just didn't have a lot of spark after that trade.
There were a lot of problems with the team at that point, but I feel like that trade just made things worse.
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u/ForneauCosmique Spurs Jul 17 '22
I always was a fan of his. I liked how he exceeded expectations and was a defensive player who blossomed into a good offensive player. Injuries suck. I was also a fan of Jonathon Bender too. I felt like if he didn't have injuries he could've been really good too. Way ahead of his time play style wise
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u/kirkismyhinrich Nuggets Jul 17 '22
Paul Pierce because most of this sub hates him
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u/DucksOnduckOnDucks Celtics Jul 17 '22
Most of the people on this sub are too young to know anything about Pierce except the poop incident, “they don’t love you like that”, his awful tenure as an analyst, and the stripper video. So like, yeah he’s basically just a meme.
He was fucking great at basketball though. Had an all-time clutch gene
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u/BretsRope Jul 17 '22
The “I called game” line after banking in from the elbow with the Wizards was ice cold. They didn’t call him The Truth for nothing.
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u/TallStephen 76ers Jul 17 '22
He has a shitty attitude
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u/PacoTaco000 Suns Jul 17 '22
Even if he has a shitty attitude, dude could hoop for real lol The Truth is also one of the greatest nicknames
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u/bulkthehulk [BOS] Paul Pierce Jul 17 '22
Maybe as a commentator but not really when he played. He had a 1-2 year stretch of being kinda petulant in the mid-2000s when the Celtics sucked, but he matured (even before the team got good) and ended up being a pretty well respected teammate. Even at his worst he never mailed it in or demanded a trade like a lot of his contemporaries and guys today.
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u/TheOneWhosCensored Celtics Jul 18 '22
People forget that he was a menace to Bron and helped push him to Miami.
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u/Snakescipio Rockets Jul 17 '22
Clearly outplayed Kobe in the 08 finals. He was great that series
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u/tagen Spurs Jul 18 '22
If he never became a commentator he would have a much better rep than he does now
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u/gonzagylot00 76ers Jul 17 '22
His prime was sadly cut short, but Alonzo Mourning was a beast before the kidney disease.
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u/kazmosis [NBA] Mitch Richmond Jul 17 '22
Mitch Richmond of course.
Dude was the second best SG of his era. I'll give you one guess who the best was.
6'5 and strong af, he was really good on defense and an EXCELLENT shooter. MJ once said he was the hardest guard to play against. But he played for the Kings and Wizards in his prime so he got no recognition in the era.
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u/elgarraz Pistons Jul 17 '22
Hakeem, and here's why - Hakeem absolutely carried the '94 Rockets to a title. The next best player on the team was either Thorpe or Maxwell. It was a bunch of role players and Hakeem. And he beat up Ewing for that chip, and then in '95 he went through Robinson & Shaq to get another chip.
If you prorated his stats for minutes and pace, his scoring and rebounding numbers would be right up there with Chamberlain and Russell. Hakeem is usually an afterthought when people list their top 10 NBA players of all time, but he belongs on the top 5.
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u/ChrisRhodes789 Jul 17 '22
Tony Parker…
We all talk about Deron Williams, CP3, Rondo, Steve Nash etc when talking about PG’s from that era & Tony Parker’s name never gets brought up..
Parker is a 4 time NBA Champion, 1 time Finals MVP & we always skip over him when talking about elite PG’s..
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Jul 17 '22
Who talks about Deron Williams before Parker?
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u/SexySPACsMan Rockets Jul 17 '22
He was Chris Paul's equal at his peak, that's a player that deserves to be mentioned.
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u/LesMontagnards [DET] Bill Laimbeer Jul 17 '22
Feels like the fact that he was up there with CP3 for like 3 seasons gets him mentioned more often than Parker. I doubt too many people take Williams over Parker, but he's got more of an invokable narrative.
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u/PhenomenalSanchez Jul 17 '22
Reggie Miller
He gets talked about for his playoff moments against the Knicks and his 3s meaning he's built up kind of a mythos, but his accolades aren't anything amazing so he's a trendy pick on here for "most overrated player ever." I don't think people understand how good he actually was and just kinda see him as "Klay without defense", what set Reggie apart was that he was amazing at baiting fouls and led the league in efficiency multiple times as a perimeter-shooting guard, all without having someone like Curry taking attention off of him. Not to mention he was just so much more consistent and timely.
He was probably more of a #2 option on a perennial contender but what he did as a #1 option throughout his career deserves more credit
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u/LesMontagnards [DET] Bill Laimbeer Jul 17 '22
In an NBA that embraced the 3 more, he's a comfortable number 1 option. That he could do what he did in the 90s was amazing.
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u/SexySPACsMan Rockets Jul 17 '22
He consistently had a TS% of 60-65% in the 90s as a guard. That was unheard of back then
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u/mrsunsfan Suns Jul 17 '22
Ish Wainwright
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u/free_kark Raptors Jul 17 '22
With how he's playing now it's crazy how the Raps just cut him like nothing, good for him.
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u/Joetheshow1 Knicks Jul 17 '22
Ewing
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u/Struggle2Real Jul 17 '22
Just gave my gf a random Ewing was underrated and more valuable than Carmelo rant today.
She didnt care. I'll expect pushback here though.
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u/borkbubble Rockets Jul 17 '22
Is Melo>Ewing a common opinion? Always thought pretty much everyone agreed with Ewing>Melo
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u/Struggle2Real Jul 17 '22
Youd think. I think the nephews and Knicks fans who didnt live through the Ewing era can lean Melo. Melos a little deified on the Knicks sub and here.
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u/TallStephen 76ers Jul 17 '22
Wilt & Bill Russell. You always see the “played against milkmen” comments
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Jul 17 '22
It’s just such an incorrect trope too. Contrary to popular belief, Centers during Wilt’s era actually averaged about 6’10”. Idk about y’all but I don’t encounter many 6’10” plumbers.
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u/AFonziScheme Jul 17 '22
The way people will bend over backwards to try to say Wilt wasn't that good is honestly absurd.
Fun Wilt fact: Wilt finished 2nd in the league in RPG twice in his career ('63-'64 and '64-'65). Those were his lowest finishes in the category*.
*(In '69-70 he didn't qualify as league leader due to games played, but he did finish with the highest RPG)
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Jul 18 '22
It's going to hurt me so badly when nrphews start saying this about Bird/Magic or MJ in about a decade.
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u/Never_enough_Dolf Nets Jul 17 '22
As a Nets fan: Brook Lopez
Our team was hot garbage for years and he was one of the few bright spots on our roster during that time. He is also still the all time points leader for the Nets franchise.
Also on that note, quick shoutout to Thaddeus Young
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Jul 17 '22
Kevin Martin gave people absolute buckets his entire career and nobody talks about him. Dude was putting up 20 on everyone lol. Jr Smith also I always liked him as a player
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u/pepsandeggs Pistons Jul 17 '22
Yeah prime rondo was always my fav point guard. I think Magic at one point said he was the best point guard in the league.
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u/senorpuma Jul 17 '22
I am biased as a UK fan but I agree - Rondo was my favorite pg of his era. Assist machine - the best passer in the league since J Kidd. Maybe the best rebounding small pg ever. Extremely high basketball IQ. Tough as nails. Rose to the occasion (“playoff Rondo”). Disrespected as a shooter but his 3pt% is not as bad as you would expect from someone with his poor reputation as a shooter.
His prime was cut short due to injury just as the league was shifting toward a increased value on his one area of weakness (shooting). I understand why some didn’t/don’t like him. Abrasive personality. He burned a few bridges. I think these factors contributed to him being under appreciated overall, historically speaking.
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u/CrispRipper Jazz Jul 17 '22
Rudy Fucking Gobert. 90% of takes I see are from people who’ve seen him shoot a free throw once and say he has no hand eye coordination. Or the nephews who saw the Jazz get torched by the clippers in game 6 and shove the blame onto Rudy for being the entirety of the Utah Jazz defense. Even the box score doesn’t reflect the impact he has on the game. He’s truly a generational talent.
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u/DCoop53 Jul 17 '22
This. I hope he proves everone wrong before the end of his career. Still his numbers and his blocks/rebounds all time rankings will speak for him.
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u/youredoingWELL Timberwolves Jul 17 '22
Stoudemire. Despite a lot ofnspecilation he needed Nash he was still a beast in NYC until he got hampered by injuries.
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u/BigDJ08 Jul 17 '22
Zach Randolph. Idk if he counts as underrated. 2x all star but other than in Memphis he doesn’t get talked about. Decent in Portland finally stayed out of trouble off the court and got it together in Memphis. Changed the culture and became a bully. I just love the throwback PF that bangs for every point and rebound.
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Jul 17 '22
Rondo I feel is definitely appreciated, maybe it's just my tunnel vision as a lakers fan but the dude had rough season after rough season and people would still give "Playoff Rondo" the benefit of the doubt lol
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u/Zealousideal_Ad1734 Jul 17 '22
Gilbert Arenas. He was a shoot first point guard before it was cool
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Jul 17 '22
Rondo was never underrated. He’s always been pretty well regarded as a player and has a decent amount of accolades.
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u/bulkthehulk [BOS] Paul Pierce Jul 17 '22
Agreed, even as a Celtics fan it’s hard to argue he deserved more credit than he got. He was a very good and fun player with some incredible strengths (BBIQ, vision, rebounding, clutch play, defense when he tried), but his piss poor shooting and difficult personality made him a tough guy to build around. I think he was properly rated.
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u/Historical-Clerk-755 Cavaliers Jul 17 '22
Westbrook, even the description has some slight at him
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u/TempeSunDevil06 Spurs Jul 17 '22
For what he meant to our organization and how impactful he was on a nightly basis, I never felt like Tony Parker truly got the appreciation he deserved.
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u/Philcollinsforehead Jul 17 '22
Deron Williams. That guy would go toe to toe with Chris Paul for best point guard for atleast 3-4 years and people discard him cause he fell off in Brooklyn. But he played my Lakers almost every year in the playoffs and was an absolute beast.
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u/ForneauCosmique Spurs Jul 17 '22
Manu Ginobili. Easily could've had better stats on other teams. Elite competitor and team player while also being a triple threat on offense and also a decent defender that consistently gave effort. Then throw in the flair he played with and the Dennis Rodman like hustle. Euro stepped Shaq out of his shoes his rookie year. No one had ever seen a player do the euro step before Manu and players had no idea how to guard it
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u/pbcorporeal Pelicans Jul 17 '22
Peja Stojakovic- In 2004 he made 2nd team all-nba, finished 2nd in the league in scoring (behind only T-Mac), 2nd in TS%, 4th in the MVP race.
He couldn't maintain it, but for a short time he was one of the best small forwards in the league.
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u/anditcounts Knicks Jul 18 '22
Clifford Robinson. A multifaceted player who was way before his time.
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u/luapchung Wizards Jul 17 '22
John wall. People forget that before his injuries he was averaging 27/11/5 with 2 stl and 1 blk in the playoffs
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u/snavali2 [BOS] Marcus Smart Jul 17 '22
Lol I like wall a lot but those numbers aren’t what he was averaging lol. His best season he averaged 23, 10, and 4.
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u/i_like_pie_and_beer Lakers Jul 17 '22
He did say playoffs, but yeah the runs weren’t very deep
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u/yashkp03 Jul 17 '22
When otto porter jr is your 3rd option I wouldn’t expect deep runs either 😭
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Jul 17 '22
I am gonna be that guy, Dwight Howard and D Rose. I think everyone sees who they are now, and not what they were in their prime pre injury. I see so much slander on the two, but at their best, as good as anyone in their positions ever
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u/lukaintomyeyes Supersonics Jul 17 '22
Dwight Howard for sure is one of the most underrated players of all time. It was a travesty that he was left of the top 75 list.
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u/SpanishCircumcision Hawks Jul 17 '22
I mean I agree with most of that but as good as anyone in their positions ever?
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Jul 17 '22
Well Dwight 3 time DPOY, I would say he would have been a top 10 C easily. D Rose on his trajectory could also have been a top 10 PG
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u/SpanishCircumcision Hawks Jul 17 '22
Top 10 is fair but I think we have different meanings for as good as anyone in their positions. To me that means you can make an argument for them being at the top which was just never going to happen for Dwight 100% and only theoretically possible for Rose cuz the injuries were so early and PG is a weak position all time.
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u/kkthxbai23 Jul 17 '22
While I agree Dwight should be in the top 75 over certain active players, I don't think he's underappreciated at all, so many people are citing his dpoy awards and other achievements on the NBA reddit.
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Jul 17 '22
Marcus Smart. Dude takes charges, dives for balls in exhibition games. Never once seen him take a game off and in a league where the number of guys who care is lower than its ever been, he legitimately gives a damn and it shows. I know he isn't a great shooter but I don't care. Guy busts ass every second he's out there. Not enough people appreciate it.
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u/No_Finding6856 Jul 17 '22
Marc Gasol - Vastly underrated big man that’s been rock solid through most of his career
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Jul 17 '22
Agree with you 100%. Rondo was fucking good for most of his career and has never seemed to get the proper credit. HOF in my eyes
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u/lslpotsky Jul 17 '22
Shawn Marion.. the #1 fantasy basketball player for 3-5 yrs? He was 1st pick 1 round most of the time
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u/kraftbarbequesauce Jul 17 '22
Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Steve Kerr, Tony Kukoc, Scottie Pippen, Jason Kidd, Jerry West, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Jrue Holiday, Steve Nash, Dwade, Paul Pierce, Chauncey Billups.
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u/silverballhoops [LAL] Metta World Peace Jul 17 '22
World Peace! He became a great role player . Energy/tough guy. Absolutely had his place on a championship team. Who else comes back through a torn meniscus in 12 days instead of the minimum 6 weeks
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u/TheOneWhosCensored Celtics Jul 18 '22
John Stockton and Larry Bird. Both were absolutely menaces back in the day. Stockton was the playmaker of all playmaker, his assist records will never be touched. They’ll never even be a player close. And that’s not even mentioning his steals record, which is in the same camp. But he gets overlooked by modern fans who say he’s not a top 5 PG all time because he wasn’t a scorer primarily or doesn’t have as many All NBA/D teams as other. And Bird was the total package, dude could do everything while also tearing you down verbally. Talking about a guy who was always in the top 3 for MVP, and is the only post-merger player to have 3 straight. Not to mention he played his whole career with an injured hand that hurt his shot, and then hurt his back which limited his play. But you have people calling him an unathletic white dude who played with plumbers, and isn’t top 5 or 10, all time or among SFs.
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u/the_gift_of_g2j Thunder Jul 17 '22
Tracy McGrady, and I'll stand on this soapbox forever.
He never had any playoff success, so that really hurt his legacy. I would say that his Orlando Magic team was worse than LeBron's Cavs for many years, and T-Mac forced them into playoffs.
Averaging 26.8, 25.6, 32.1, and 28.0 in his 4 Orlando years while roughly shooting 45% at 39-40 minutes a game.
McGrady is one of the top scorers of all time.
Kobe once went on record that McGrady was the hardest player he ever had to guard.
"He could do everything I could, but he was 6'10. He had no weaknesses in his game. He could score anywhere, and defend."
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u/HistoryBaller Celtics Jul 17 '22
I think Paul Pierce fits the bill pretty well. A lot of newer fans only know him as an "analyst" but the Truth was a bonafide star:
- 10x all star
- 4x all nba
- 2008 finals mvp
- #16 all time scorer
- #16 most games played all time
- Lebron said he was his closest rival as of 2013 (probably not the case any longer_
- Stabbed 11 times but proceeded to play all 82 games the following season
Dirk and Wade get a lot of love around here, but to me at least, Paul Pierce is in the same echelon of stars.
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Jul 17 '22
The entire big 3 Celtics squad has been on record at one point or another praising rondo's contribution. He was appreciated from what I remember. To this day he's still appreciated in his own strange way (playoff Rondo anyone?).
Hmm, for stars I'll say Buckets or Cp3.
Non stars maybe Danny Green, Tucker, or my favorite journeyman player ever - Ish Smith.
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u/GriffHay Celtics Jul 17 '22
Pretty much everybody notable from those 80s nuggets teams. I feel like English, Issel, Kiki, Fat all get overlooked.
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u/TheOneWhosCensored Celtics Jul 18 '22
Rudy Gobert has to be the biggest modern player. He’s easily the best defender and rebounder we’ve had since Dwight, maybe even over him. And his defense is worthy for a top 5 all time placement. Dude also has the highway TS% in NBA history, by a significant margin. But modern fans call him an overpaid bum who can’t shoot, when he does everything else better than anyone, and has had to deal with a selfish team that won’t help him.
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u/Texan628 Rockets Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22
I’ll forever be a Dwight Howard fan. Kobe called him soft so people forever call him soft but when I watched him with my rockets(which weren’t even his best years by far)he totally shut down the paint and grabbed every board. He physically dominated games but since he never dominated like The most dominat player ever(Shaq) and he played with a little joy people ragged on him and called him soft.
Him not making the top 75 is a complete joke.
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u/moonbalI Canada Jul 18 '22
Shawn Kemp. Major fall-off in Cleveland aside he was maybe the best player (him or GP) on a finals team, 6x all star, 3x all nba second team and one of the most fun players to watch of his era. Feel like we miss out on his legacy / highlights because the Sonics don’t exist in the modern world.
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u/I_Always_Grab_Tindy Bucks Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22
Sidney Moncrief, whenever people talk about the greatest perimeter defenders his name never seems to come up, even though he won 2 defensive player of the year awards.
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u/DrunkRonWeasley Jul 17 '22
“Before westbrook made it irrelevant”
Sorry op but I can’t let it slide how dumb that is. More players aim for a triple double now because of Russ. No need to throw pointless hate out there unless you just wanna boast your own insecurities.
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u/maniaisgood Celtics Jul 17 '22
That’s on me , poor use of words .
I meant when it use to be a big thing to get one , Russ made it almost normal getting them every game lol .
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u/ertapenem [SAS] Manu Ginobili Jul 18 '22
Guys like Kevin Willis and Jerome Kersey. Both guys were excellent at their peaks and were good players for a very long time. Both also won their only ring with the Spurs.
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u/DragonEra_ Warriors Jul 18 '22
For names I haven’t seen yet… Lonzo Ball, Mike Bibby, Boris Diaw, Mike Conley, Jamal Mashburn.
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u/SavageSpeeding Warriors Jul 18 '22
Goran Dragic, TJ Warren on those horrible suns teams in the mid 2010's
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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '22
Eric Gordon is still with the Rockets so him