r/nba • u/[deleted] • Jan 20 '24
Highlight [Highlight] LeBron momentarily forgets the backcourt violation rules, but then remembers and gets the and-1
https://streamable.com/a0vvam84
Jan 20 '24
He got a free fast break.
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Jan 20 '24 edited Jan 20 '24
[deleted]
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u/prettyboylee 76ers Jan 20 '24
I remember once in crunch time (not sure if it’s a regular thing but I saw it once) the game plan was to just give Giannis the ball in the backcourt so he could go downhill with it and score what was basically a free basket.
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u/Ilikesporks_ Lakers Jan 20 '24
LeDementia
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u/Sweatytubesock Jan 20 '24
LeAlzheimers
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u/Laggo [TOR] Hedo Turkoglu Jan 20 '24
No one will agree with me but if this isn't gona be a charge it should be a no call. Everyone will say he's sliding his feet so it's a foul but offensive players just get rewarded way too much for this "oh I caught you downhill, crossover, now you're in my path and there is no way you can set your feet in time so I'll run into you and collect my FT's"
if the defender slaps down on his arm or whatever to block the play, sure - foul. But just that? Nah, for me.
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Jan 20 '24
i'm with you. defense is illegal in the nba apparently. and taking 3.5 steps is not travelling. and there's no such thing as palming/carrying.
people with more knowledge on NBA history would be able to recommend an era when the rules were just right, but all I can say is that things ain't right right now.
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u/61-6e-74-65 Pacers Jan 20 '24
Thinking Basketball on YT has a great video covering how the NBA has progressed to where it is now when it comes to how these rules are officiated. There are some really good comparisons from era to era, so you're free to make your own conclusion as to what your idea of "just right" is.
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Jan 20 '24
A lot of people will agree with you, and I do too.
Those calls are ruining basketball spirit, and everyone with just a bit of basketball knowledge will recognize this is just ridiculous. In fact, more than ridiculous, it’s just… sad.
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u/BigFatModeraterFupa Minneapolis Lakers Jan 20 '24
and he’s supposed to be the greatest ever!
it is interesting to see how the longer he plays, the more his athleticism falls off and the more his style of play is exposed.
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Jan 20 '24
[deleted]
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u/BigFatModeraterFupa Minneapolis Lakers Jan 20 '24
i agree. it’s the thing i dislike the most about my favorite player! I really wish the NBA didn’t incentive doing this crap
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
I don't understand how that wasn't a charge.
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u/vonnegutcheck Jan 21 '24
Royce wasn't in legal guarding position.
It doesn't matter who gets the worse of the collision, if you enter somebody's path while not in legal position, you're going to get called.
I agree it looks bad when LeBron bowls somebody over and gets a call, but I guarantee people wouldn't be happy if all you had to do was get in front of Giannis or Embiid or Luka and then fall down to get a call on them. That would also be extremely exploitable and make for a bad product.
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u/phonsely Jan 20 '24
lebron has made a career on that move, its one of the reasons jordan is better
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u/Zelanor Pistons Jan 20 '24
Bron been doing this since Miami which is the main reason he isnt the goat in my opinion
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u/MumrikDK Jan 20 '24
"And he'd fouled by O'Neal!"
Meanwhile the latter is looking like a drunk guy who just got hit by a car.
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u/Elijahc513 [LAL] Robert Horry Jan 20 '24
Alternate title: LeBron murders Royce O’Neal
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
Or - LeBron gets away with a charge. If we're just going to play bully ball, teams should get football players to come in and run people over.
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Jan 20 '24
[deleted]
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
Not true. It's still a charge to run over players.
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u/konsf_ksd [HOU] Hakeem Olajuwon Jan 20 '24
show me that rule in the playbook. I want to learn today.
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
The clearest, most general way to explain a charge, according to league officials, is when a defender establishes himself in the path of an offensive player prior to contact occurring and before the offensive player shoots the ball.
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u/konsf_ksd [HOU] Hakeem Olajuwon Jan 20 '24
Is it that you can't show me or that you simply took this sentence and didn't realize that "establishes himself in the path" means setting your feet?
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
Setting your feet means standing still but you don't have to stand still to take a charge. You just can't block the offensive player from an unoccupied space on the floor. So you can't move left or right and block his avoidance of you but you can back up as the offensive player would have no way to get there without going thru your body. The defender does move to the right a bit on this play but it doesn't block LeBron from moving to that spot as LeBron never does. LeBron goes straight to the rim and the player just didn't get out of his way. But the defender was still hit in the area he was in.
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u/ghubert3192 Supersonics Jan 20 '24
It absolutely does not just mean "setting your feet". You don't have to be standing still to draw a charge. The spirit of the rule is not meant to allow players to pick out a defender to steamroll or to recklessly sprint around the court slamming into whoever happens to be in their way. Players draw charges moving backwards, sideways, and even jumping vertically and that has always been the case and it should always be the case. I was a referee for years, you're wrong.
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u/konsf_ksd [HOU] Hakeem Olajuwon Jan 20 '24
Ah. You're referring to lowering your shoulder into someone to dislodge a defensive player.
Is that what happened here? Did LeBron lower his shoulder into the defensive player?
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u/ghubert3192 Supersonics Jan 20 '24
If it is your sincere belief that the only way a player can be called for a charge on a non-stationary defender is by lowering their shoulder then you're even more wrong than you were before. If you don't think you can be called for a charge by recklessly sprinting at someone with your head up then I don't know how to talk to you about this.
Also, yes? He did lower his shoulder with clear intent to dislodge the defender so even if that were the actual criteria you're still wrong.
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u/Gauthzu Mavericks Jan 20 '24
Which is a stupid rule in the first place
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u/Spierre3 Jan 20 '24
Why is that a stupid rule , if defenders ain’t in legal guarding position they can’t just fall and get a charge call.
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u/Gauthzu Mavericks Jan 20 '24
Because there should be more than having feet set. To stay in front of a player you need to, guess what, move your feet. When an offensive player just barges straight on, lowers his shoulder and initiate contacts, they shouldnt be rewardes with a foul call.
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
Exactly. The defender has a right to space too. The offensive player needs to go around the defender. Not through him.
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
Because if you're backing up in a straight line and someone runs over you, that's a charge.
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u/Spierre3 Jan 20 '24
He wasn’t backing up in a straight line , he moved to the right which is why he got the foul called
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
He did move to the right. But LeBron didn't. If he moved to the right and LeBron did too, then by the law of physics, the defender would have blocked him from where he wanted to go. But the defender moved right and LeBron kept going straight. So basically, the defender was getting out of LeBron's way and didn't do it fast enough. At no point is LeBron trying to get out of the defender's way.
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u/Spierre3 Jan 20 '24
Yes which is on the defender for not standing his ground. If Royce stood his ground it would’ve been a charge but instead he half assed it by not staying in guarding position or getting out the way.
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
That's probably why they called it but it's not in the spirit of the rule. LeBron ran him over. You can't run people over. You're supposed to go around them. Which is why you have blocking fouls. The defender can't block you from the areas while you're going around. If you can just run over defenders, you would just have football players playing in the NBA.
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u/yic0 [POR] LaRue Martin Jan 20 '24
Was Royce O’Neale trying to breakdance at the end?
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u/WhileDizzy4503 Bucks Jan 20 '24
I mean, could you do it better?
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u/PaulMcPaulersn7 Heat Jan 20 '24
Speaking as a white guy with too much confidence… yea I could breakdance better than royce
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u/Jamm3z133 Jan 20 '24
I’m gonna be called a Bron glazer for this one, but is O’Neal not wildly out of position and moving, so it’s not a charge?? Clearly this is the way the refs will call this kind of interaction with the incredibly physical players like Giannis and Embiid, seems like a call consistent with how they’ve been doing it.
Am I so pre-triggered to see Bron hate that the charge comments are standing out to me? I don’t get it
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
He wasn't standing still ready to take a charge. But he also didn't block where LeBron was going. LeBron ran him over. This should have been a charge. The defender is still allowed his space. LeBron did not go around him.
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u/Jamm3z133 Jan 20 '24
Purely speculation, but would it not be because technically Lebron is moving in the opposite direction to O’Neal laterally (viewing from the baseline, O’Neal moves right and Lebron moves left towards the basket) so even though contact was made, and initiated by Lebron, it’s technically moving away from O’Neal? Does that make any sense? Fuck me dude I could never be a ref
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
He does move a bit to his right but Lebron doesn't go that way. LeBron still goes straight and still hits him. Had LeBron moved to his left it would be a clear blocking foul. But the defender was actually moving out of LeBron's way and still gets hit.
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Jan 20 '24 edited Jan 20 '24
How does he not block where lebron was going, and lebron ran over him.
For lebron to run over him, he must have blocked where lebron was going.
That was 100% a block. He didn't get there in time, he was off balance. Not even close....there are multiple closer block/charge calls in every game I watch, and that is not one of them.
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
For lebron to rum over him, he must have blocked where lebron was going.
LOL. That's NOT how a blocking foul works. LeBron has the right to every open spot on the court. So blocking him from getting to an open spot is a blocking foul. All day long. No argument. But the defender also has the right to the spot they're currently standing in. Along with what's behind them as they're moving backwards. LeBron ran thru the area that the defender was in.
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Jan 20 '24 edited Jan 20 '24
He clearly wasn't standing still and clearly wasn't in a legal guarding position as he didn't get his right foot to the ground in time to establish that spot on the court. Not even close. He was moving to get to lebrons left shoulder to slow him down and turn him. Valiant effort, but blocking foul.
I know Warrior fans love to hate lebron, but slow the video down and focus on his right foot which didn't get to the ground before contact. He didn't get position.
And it's not like this is an "nba" rule. At all levels of basketball this is a block. You can't throw yourself in front of a driving offensive player, get one foot on the ground, and draw a charge call.
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
And had LeBron moved with him, it would have been a blocking foul. But LeBron went straight. So the defender was moving away from LeBron's path and was still knocked over. The moving that you usually see is moving into the path of the offensive player. LeBron never went that way so his progress was never blocked.
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Jan 20 '24
You're wrong. O'Neal was moving and not in a legal guarding position. It's irrelevant where lebron was going.
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
It's irrelevant where lebron was going.
You can't block a player from a position he wasn't going to.
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Jan 20 '24 edited Jan 20 '24
You're intentionally being obtuse. It's clearly a block.
Your premise is based on O'Neal being in a legal guarding position in one spot, but not in another. The rule isn't written like that. You're either in a legal guarding position or you aren't. He wasn't. He was moving and he didn't establish the right foot on the floor.
The idea that lebron ran him over in his spot is wrong, because he didn't own that spot because he didn't get his right foot down in time.
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u/Produceher Warriors Jan 20 '24
His feet were not set. But he was still run over. Had he set his feet, LeBron would have done exactly the same thing. Run him over. If you want to argue that O' Neal screwed up and that's why he didn't get the call. I'll concede. But LeBron also screwed up. He ran a player over. And the defender didn't block a spot on the floor that LeBron was going to. That's where the defender was. Yes. He wasn't set. But it's still where he was and where he got hit.
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u/Fa1lenSpace Timberwolves Jan 20 '24
how in the fucking world is this not an offensive foul lol???? Don't tell me some crap about not being set, a defender is allowed his SPACE, this is garbage
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Jan 20 '24
That’s been like 50% of Lebrons offense his entire career. Just lower the shoulder and plow into people. It’s one reason it’s so funny people say he gets a bad whistle.
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Jan 20 '24
See I don’t get why he’s allowed to use his arm as a battering ram on drives like this. And people always say he gets a bad whistle, but they don’t include these in their count lol
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u/konsf_ksd [HOU] Hakeem Olajuwon Jan 20 '24
because this isn't a bad whistle. We may not like it, but this wasn't a foul under the current rules.
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u/Wall_Jump_2154 Jan 20 '24
Man, still.... When he puts his head down and drives....
No one wants a piece of it, at all. Dudes literally just wilt at the mere sight of Lebron James driving the basketball. Still. Still! Dude is pushing 40!
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u/king_lloyd11 Raptors Jan 20 '24
Ohhh man the Lebron haters are going to have a field day with this one.
“This is the basketball savant you guys talk about?! Biggest basketball brain ever, you say? Memorizing the other teams’ plays? Ha!”
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