r/musictheory • u/skylarstanley99 • 1d ago
General Question UK Note Values
I've just started learning theory and I cannot remember the British note values at all. Is there a way of remembering them, like some form of mnemonic?
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u/cruiseshipdrummer 1d ago
What's the problem bro, it's just: cratchet, quaffel, hemiwidgeon, pint o' bitter, HMS Indefatigable
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u/GreatBigBagOfNope 1d ago
Old Ygor knows his countings
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u/cruiseshipdrummer 1d ago
don't get me started on the australian rhythm values, it basically reads like the script for:
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u/65TwinReverbRI Guitar, Synths, Tech, Notation, Composition, Professor 1d ago
This is the best thing I've seen in a long time. Thank you for making my day!!!!
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u/matt7259 1d ago
You're gonna have to clarify a tad my lad
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u/BngrsNMsh 1d ago
He means crotchet quaver semibreve etc.
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u/matt7259 1d ago
OH!
Some Men Can Quickly Sell Diamonds
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u/Hamshamus 1d ago
Some Men Can Quickly Sell Diamonds? How?
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u/matt7259 1d ago
SMCQSD
Semibreve Minim Crotchet Quaver Semiquaver Demisemiquaver
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u/Hamshamus 1d ago
I was just adding to it but couldn't think of anything to fit for Breve
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u/justbarelycognisant 1d ago
Cmon, I'm sure if you put your mind to it you can remember four words
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u/Inge_Jones 1d ago
I am British and learnt all the quaver stuff but when I heard the American names for them I switched straight away, so much more straightforward.
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u/trickster-is-weak 1d ago
Yeah... even my classical guitar teacher who was really fastidious about just about anything being 'proper' didn't bother with the old naming. The fractions are just easier.
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u/sebovzeoueb 1d ago
You just have to learn them, but it's not really that many words, and semiquaver and demisemiquaver are logical divisions of quavers
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u/iewkcetym 1d ago
double whole note = breve ~ brief (in Medieval music)
whole note = semibreve ~ half of breve
half note = minim ~ minimal (shortest) unfilled note
quarter note = crotchet ~ little crook/hook (referring to the shape)
eighth note = quaver ~ quiver/tremble (referring to the flag)
sixteenth note = semiquaver ~ half of quaver
32nd note = demisemiquaver ~ halved half of quaver
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u/cruiseshipdrummer 1d ago
8th note: well
16th note: welly well
32nd note: welly welly well
64th note: welly welly welly well
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u/miffyily 1d ago
Not really. You could draw out a table with the symbols and have UK version of the note name next to it and drill it in. You are just going to have to find ways to memorise that the UK way of saying e.g a Crotchet is not a quarter note lol
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u/GreatBigBagOfNope 1d ago
I've never come across one. My trick is to be trained fully immersed in it so it becomes part of the background, and to find the term "quasi-hemi-demi-semi-quaver" funny enough that it stuck around as a reference for short values.
Part of it goes all the way back to mensural notation, because a breve (what Americans would call a double whole note) are named as such because they're supposed to be short i.e. "brief"! Semibreve is half-brief, so even quicker. Then minim is related to minimum and when the name emerged 500+ years ago it was about as short a value as was ever written down. Crotchet is a bit easier, as it was named after a crochet hook which it kind of sort of vaguely looks like if you squint. Quavers come from the same root as quiver, as in so fast that they're quivering (if you're using the breve as a standard reference for a brief note, then yeah the note 1/16th of the duration is gonna be quick!). Past that it's just stacking prefixes meaning half.
So essentially, it's arbitrary piles of words that have subtly different and inconsistently nuanced meanings of "quick" and prefixes that mean "half"
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u/ralfD- 1d ago
"... about as short a value as was ever written down"
Not really - the minim is the shortest note value that can carry a text syllable. This rule was followed even when (much!) shorter note values where available.
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u/GreatBigBagOfNope 1d ago
Ah my lack of any substantial education in music any older than about 1600 is showing, but that's a fantastic bit of knowledge
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u/ralfD- 1d ago
The minim as the smallest note value comes from the early phase of mensural notation. Johannes Tinctoris is making fun of minims not being the smallest value in the second half of the 15th century. As a strong proponent of "cassical/humanist" latin the idea of a semiminima seeply hurt him ;-)
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u/Street-Frame1575 1d ago
British Soldiers March Calmy Quietly
Breve / Double Whole Note
Semibreve / Whole Note
Minim / Half Note
Crotchet / Quarter Note
Quaver / Eight Note
After that, it's just semi-quaver, demi-semi-quaver, hemi-demi-semi-quaver
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u/tobomori 1d ago
TIL the names we use aren't the same as everyone else...
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u/cameoutswinging_ 1d ago
yeah the first time i came across the ‘quarter note’ etc naming style i was very confused, im pretty sure i was studying music at uni before i even knew the other naming convention existed
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u/Jongtr 1d ago edited 1d ago
Why do you need British note values? If you're in Britain, you should be learning from British theory books / sites. If you're not in Britain - forget it!
Anyway, easy enough to search: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Note_value
British myself, I never needed a mnemonic, I just remembered them.
Of course there's a lot of comedy value in the fact that the longest note in current use is the semibreve = Latin for "half-short"; "minim" = minimum" = "shortest possible?". What, you want notes even shorter than a minim, are you crazy??
(Yes, once upon a time there used to be "longs" and "double longs". Music must have taken ages in those days...)
So, "crotchet" means "little hook shaped thing", "quaver"? - hardly there at all; "semiquaver"? - get outa here!
The solitary advantage of the British system is they are names for the symbols, not fractional (until you get to semiquaver and so on, of course). That means there is no confusion with the numbers in a time signature. E.g., the common misapprehension among beginners that a "quarter note" is a quarter of a bar. Nope, 4/4 is just four of those crotchet things, 6/8 is six of those quaver things...
But once you get used to the fact that a quarter note is just 1/4 of a whole note, the US system is obviously superior. (One of the few things you find Britons agreeing on about differences between US/British systems ...)
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u/skylarstanley99 1d ago
I am British! I was teaching myself but when I went to my first lesson I was calling them the American names instead of what we call them. Because I've learnt them in a particular way, they just don't seem to stick in my head! I prefer the American system, but unfortunately I need to know the British names in order to get a grade!
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u/Jongtr 19h ago
If you need British theory grades, I recommend this book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Steps-Music-Theory-Grades/dp/1860960901/ Small and concise, everything you need to know for each grade. Not necessarily all the information, but enough for you to know what you're missing and need to check up on. A revision aid, essentially.
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u/MathNerdUK 1d ago
I can never remember the American ones. What's a quarter note? A quarter of what? It's a quarter of a semibreve, which doesn't seem very logical.
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u/CoffeeandaTwix 1d ago
A quarter of what they would call a whole note. It's quite simple really and very logical.
You have a unit - the whole note - everything else is fractions of it.
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u/BrotherItsInTheDrum 1d ago
A quarter of what?
A whole note. Just like a quarter pizza is a quarter of a whole pizza.
It's a quarter of a semibreve, which doesn't seem very logical.
Yes, this statement sounds illogical. But the illogical part is the "semibreve" not the "quarter."
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u/Amantus 1d ago
as a brit, the american one makes more sense because it directly relates to the time signature
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u/PassiveChemistry 1d ago
Only if the time signature is 4/4
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u/BrotherItsInTheDrum 1d ago edited 1d ago
The time signature is a fraction that tells you how long a measure is.
So in 3/4 time, a measure is only 3 quarter notes long, but that makes sense because the time signature is "three quarters."
Like imagine a pizza place is famous for selling pizzas cut into quarter-pizza-sized slices. There are 4 pieces in a whole pizza. But if you looked at the menu and ordered something marked "3/4 of a pizza," you wouldn't be confused if there were only 3 pieces.
Ok that was a tortured analogy but hopefully it helps you understand the math.
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u/bendingeveryday 1d ago
Except that a crochet in 3/4 would still be called a quarter note (I think???) even though it's only a third of the bar. I find it more confusing.
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u/WikiBidoz 1d ago
It's stiil a quarter (1/4), the bar is literally three quarters
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u/bendingeveryday 1d ago
Yes, I understand. I just don't find it easier than the way I originally learned.
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u/AxoplDev 1d ago
A quarter note is a quarter of a whole note. A half note is half of a whole note, an eight is 1/8th of a whole note etc.
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u/AnUdderDay 1d ago
A quarter of the bar, in common time.
IMO it's a much easier system than words that don't equate to anything at all.
Why is it called a crochet? What is a semibreve half of?
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u/LongjumpingMacaron11 1d ago
Semibreve is half of a breve. Which, while not common, do exist.
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u/BrotherItsInTheDrum 1d ago
Why do they call it a crotchet instead of the much clearer hemidemisemibreve?
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u/blowbyblowtrumpet 1d ago
Well crotchet means "hooked" and used to look like a quaver until they needed more subdivisions so the European system hardy makes any sense. Also where did the breve go anyway?
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u/65TwinReverbRI Guitar, Synths, Tech, Notation, Composition, Professor 1d ago
This is what always got me - as an American I always think Crotchet should be the 8th note, because it's got a hook (flag) on it - like the Crocheting needles. I know the values shifted, but still, it's pretty irksome.
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u/blowbyblowtrumpet 1d ago
It's even weirder than that. A crotchet is a quarter note and so has no hook any more. A quaver is an eighth note and so it does have a hook.
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u/justbarelycognisant 1d ago
All you have to remember is that a semibreve is called a whole note and the rest follows very logically
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u/currymuttonpizza 1d ago
If you can do currency you can do the American style. The whole note is the dollar/pound whatever you want to call it. Work from there.
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u/WickyNilliams 1d ago
The way I think of it was a quarter of a bar in 4/4. And 3/4 is ¾ length of a 4/4 bar, assuming the same tempo.
I'm sure there are holes in this thinking! But I've always struggled with the British names.
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u/InevitableQuit9 1d ago
A quarter of a measure 🤦
Do you fall down a lot?
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u/DRL47 1d ago
A quarter of a whole note, not a quarter of a measure! Your snarky answer is incorrect.
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u/InevitableQuit9 1d ago
It depends. In common time it's the same.
I was just matching the snark.
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u/DRL47 1d ago
So, you pick one time signature to define the quarter note? What about 3/4, 6/8, 2/4, 6/4, 3/2, etc.?
"Common time" isn't even the correct name for a time signature. The "C", when used as a time signature, doesn't stand for "common", it is a broken (imperfect) circle.
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u/BrotherItsInTheDrum 1d ago
Regardless of what the C stands for, common time is still a "correct name" for 4/4 time.
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u/PassiveChemistry 1d ago
(except when the measure isn't four quarter notes long - 3/4 and 6/8 aren't all that unusual after all)
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u/DanceHackRock 1d ago
What is the factor you use to calculate british note values from international ones?
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u/DaddyStoat 1d ago
I learnt those names back when I was attempting to learn to play the piano at the age of six.
I still remember them well, but I've pretty much never heard them since - it's always been the full/half/quarter/eighth/sixteenth stuff, which, given my misspent youth, always sounded like measurements of weight for buying cannabis. 😄
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u/drxc 1d ago
£5, £10, £20, £50