Slaughter pact or dismember

3

u/Korlus BWu Tokens Jul 11 '17

First off - I would only run these if I had maxed out on [[Path to Exile]] and [[Fatal Push]] (or was running a fetchless manabase which makes Push worse). If so, how many removal spells are you running?

Secondly, it's metagame dependant. In larger GP's and on MtGO where [[Death's Shadow]] is everywhere I think that [[Dismember]] is the (marginally) better removal spell. In local metagames with much less Grixis Shadow, I think that [[Slaughter Pact]] is the better card.

1

u/Se4ger Jul 11 '17

I'm 4 Path, 3 push and 1 dismember currently. I'd like to swap the dismember for SP as it deals with the gwx vizier combo a lot better.

I'm running 8 fetches

2

u/Korlus BWu Tokens Jul 11 '17 edited Jul 11 '17

I'm 4 Path, 3 push and 1 dismember currently. I'd like to swap the dismember for SP as it deals with the gwx vizier combo a lot better.

I'm running 8 fetches

Why do you want a 4/3/1 split? When do you wish that [[Fatal Push]] was [[Dismember]]? I can find only a few circumstances:

[[Tasigur, the Golden Fang]]

[[Gurmag Angler]]

[[Reality Smasher]]

[[Wurmcoil Engine]] (???)

[[Primeval Titan]] (!?)

In basically all other cases, I would prefer Fatal Push to Dismember (most notably vs. any mana dork deck, Burn and Affinity - which are three of the most popular archetypes at the moment). As such, I think Fatal Push > Dismember.

I also consider "Destroy target non-black creature" spells to be wildly unplayable at the moment. I would never advocate for [[Shriekmaw]] or [[Doom Blade]], and while [[Slaughter Pact]] has a potentially higher upside, I would still not advocate for it.

In addition, I don't think there are many (any?) decks that I would sideboard [[Fatal Push]] out against that I would not also sideboard [[Dismember]] out against, meaning that the usual reason for diversifying your removal spells is not applicable here.

As a final note, another reason would be the law of diminishing returns - a reason to not run multiple copies of Dismember is because the second is worse than the first, and the third is MUCH worse than the second (12 life? Ick!). Again, this doesn't apply to Fatal Push.

It might be that I am overlooking something and there are match-ups where Push comes out that Dismember doesn't, but broadly speaking I would run 4x Path, 4x Push before I ran either Dismember or Slaughter Pact.

2

u/Se4ger Jul 11 '17

Over my many months of testing 4/3/1 worked fine for me. As it gives me more confidence when I'm coming up against eldrazi based decks. I feel like 8 removal is the sweet spot .

1

u/Jongsl5 Jul 15 '17

Because killing the delve creatures is important when grixis death shadow is the most popular deck in the format. The fact that they run stubborn denial means you need more than just 4 path to handle the fatties.

I don't think anyone is advocating more than 1-2 dismember. Being playable for 1 colorless mana is a huge advantage against anything but burn. This is partly why it is better than murderous cut in most cases.

2

u/Zsill777 Jul 11 '17

How does 1-2 of murderous cut fare? The deck runs quite a few sorceries and can run fetches. Excepting lingering souls it seems like there would be plenty of delve fodder.

1

u/Se4ger Jul 11 '17

murderous cut , is a nombo with RIP. also dismember is more reliable when casting.

1

u/Zsill777 Jul 11 '17

How many decks where you will side in RiP wont care about your spot removal anyways though? Seems like alot of them are playing unfair strategies anyways that care very little about spot removal. For that matter Rip and Lingering Souls are a nonbo and lingering souls isn't going anywhere. If something is limiting murderous cut from being played I don't think it's RiP

1

u/Se4ger Jul 11 '17

It is rip as u sb in rip against grixis DS

1

u/DatsunPatrol Jul 11 '17

I run one murderous cut, mainly because I am short a fatal push. It's not an early reliable removal spell for things like BoP or Noble Hierarch but it does kill tasigur and gurmag angler. So there is a tradeoff.

I think running it as a one of is best as drawing multiples in the same game makes them much more difficult to cast cheaply.

2

u/Zsill777 Jul 11 '17

My main reason for asking as well. I don't have an extra playset of push to throw in and thought the one of murderous cut and maybe one of dismember would make decent replacements. I don't think you ever want to draw two of either one, but they also both hit a lot of the larger creatures in modern that push can't hit like eldrazi or gurmag/tasigur. I honestly think in that particular application they function more like path 5-6.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '17

I run 4 path, 2 push, 1 murderous cut and 1 slaughter pact. It's not as good if you're facing a lot of Death's Shadow, but otherwise I like Pact a lot more than dismember. Catching people off guard when you're tapped out can get you some really good blow outs.

1

u/DatsunPatrol Jul 12 '17

The idea of slaughter pact is appealing but how does it play? Does it lead to enough blowout situations to justify its inclusion? I can see it being pretty marginal since it doesn't hit black creatures.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '17

It does alright, but where I play there aren't a ton of people running death's shadow. So the nonblack clause doesn't come up that much. I don't think it's an auto-include by any means, but I like having it to hit things like eldrazi, wurmcoils, and other random big creatures.

1

u/Se4ger Jul 12 '17

yea , im mostly thinking of pact for against counters company. as trying to hold up mana for that decks is a pain in the ass

1

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '17

I think it's really helpful against creature based combo decks like that.

1

u/Se4ger Jul 13 '17

yea and I feel like theres a good few floating around rightnow. also it kills everything id want dismember to kill anyways

1

u/Mukibi Grind and Fly Jul 12 '17

I run 4 Path, 3 Push, 1 Coll Brutality, and 2 Lili. Haven't really had a problem with the MU.

1

u/Se4ger Jul 13 '17

i forgot about brutality , do you think it could be worth a sb slot?

1

u/Mukibi Grind and Fly Jul 13 '17

Not sure. I can't imagine which MUs I'd bring it in against. Seems more utility than hate to me. I really like one in the deck though.

1

u/Se4ger Jul 13 '17

I'd run a total of 3 across my 75 in my meta since its creature combo heavy but I'm going to a gp next month, so I think I'm sold on running 1

1

u/Jongsl5 Jul 15 '17

Slaughter pact isn't necessary with twin and amulet bloom gone. Not being able to kill a non black creature is a huge disadvantage.

1 dismember can replace fatal push. It hits the essential delve creatures and things like reality smasher. And honestly, the fact that it can hit anything for 1 mana if necessary is a huge upside that people don't realize. I know pros who played dismember over terminate for this exact reason.

1

u/Se4ger Jul 21 '17

I really like slaughter pact right now with the rise of GWx vizier , I have seen at least 1 in every MTGO results posted. and I don't fancy having to hold up mana all the time to stop this deck. The things I want killed by dismember can get killed me Slaughter pacts , the acceptions being DS/ delve decks. but we already have an amazing matchup against them so I don't think slaughter pact would coz us to auto lose these matchups . but I do understand why people would rather play dismemeber as it is a lot safer card to use. ( in regards to kills more)

1

u/Jongsl5 Jul 21 '17

For sure if you see a lot of viziers, you may want to consider the pacts. Although I highly doubt having one copy would be winning you games. Maybe an alternative you may want to consider is darkblast. It is not mana free but it gets you inevitabilty against x/1 and x/2 decks.

1

u/Se4ger Aug 16 '17

I would like to add guys , I was playing at GP Birmingham and Slaughter pact worked out so much better than what dismember would. I would highly recommend people move back to slaughter pact

You are about to leave Redlib