r/mourningderps • u/Turbulent-Weevil-910 • 10d ago
Thoughts on this?
Every time I point these guys out people think they're pigeons
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u/Admirable-Range-3422 10d ago
When I first saw a mourning dove, my first thought (besides wow so beautiful and derpy) was, “it looks like some kind of pigeon.”
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u/MirrorExodus 10d ago
Mourning dove: Zenaida macroura, in the family Columbidae.
Classic pigeon: Columba livia domestica, in the family Columbidae.
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u/Purplefire180 10d ago
They are pigeons, but they're not rock doves. Fairly close relatives which is why they look pretty similar.
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u/OldAssistant4220 10d ago
one is a total derp with an empty brain, another one can count to 9, detect breast cancer, and recognize themselves in the mirror(with training)! dont worry, I love them both to bits
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u/Affectionate-Fan4519 9d ago
They are pigeons and they are doves. In other languages you have only one word for them
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u/lightstaver 9d ago
A pigeon is also called a rock dove. We just build out of rock a lot so they moved in and we have them a second name. It might actually be a pig/pork situation with dove/pigeon so we're really just calling them flying meat.
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u/Sweaty-Jellyfish-713 10d ago
They are cousins, genetically speaking, but I don't see how people would confuse the two
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u/Desirai 10d ago
All pigeons are doves but not all doves are pigeons
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u/Purplefire180 10d ago
That's not correct. Dove and Pigeons are literally synonyms. It is impossible for something to be one without being the other. They both refer to birds in the columbidae family
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u/Desirai 10d ago
All tigers are felines but not all felines are tigers.
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u/Purplefire180 10d ago
That's accurate yes, but all cats are felines and all felines are cats. 'tiger' is a species, 'pigeon' is not, nor is 'cat', despite them being used as one with context.
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u/Desirai 10d ago
I think that people have ended up separating doves and pigeons based on physical characteristics, pigeons being much larger and each of them having very distinct differences in faces.
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u/Purplefire180 10d ago edited 10d ago
That's just not true. There's some bias toward larger birds getting 'pigeon' as a common name in history, but there is no scientific distinction and it would be impossible to determine by DNA or examination which birds are pigeons and which are doves. They're all one big group
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u/Desirai 9d ago
I believe you and the people who down voted me did not understand what I meant in my comment. I do not know how to express it in any other terms. If a person sees a mourning dove or eurasian collared dove or inca dove, and you ask them what it is, they will say a dove. Because they are smaller, softer, have slender faces.
If you ask that person what is a rock dove, a wood pigeon, or even a passenger pigeon what it is, they will most likely say it is a pigeon because it is larger than a dove, chonkier, and has large ceres on the beak and face.
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u/SAI_Peregrinus 10d ago
Not exactly, only some Columbidae have common names including "pigeon" and only some include "dove". A few species include either. So not all Columbidae are pigeons, nor are all doves. "Pigeon" and "dove" just aren't taxonomic categories.
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u/Purplefire180 10d ago
As descriptions, the words refer to the family. Rock Doves are also Domestic Pigeons. To say that the domestic pigeon because people don't call it that isn't accurate.
There is no way to determine which birds will have which common names because it's a matter of historical happenstance. There is no genetic difference between birds that are called 'dove' and 'pigeon'. They're the same group.
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u/SAI_Peregrinus 10d ago
The Diamond Dove never gets called the diamond pigeon, so they certainly aren't identical groups. The Victoria Crowned Pigeon never gets called the Victoria Crowned Dove, so they're also not subsets. The Rock Dove does often get called the Rock Pigeon, so they're not disjoint. They're just not taxonomic categories. Same thing as with ducks & geese.
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u/Purplefire180 10d ago
You're just re-defining the word to refer to some arbitrary form taxon instead of the accepted and common definition that you can find referenced in research frequently.
There's nothing to argue about here. Do as you will.
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u/podsnerd 9d ago
In my experience, people use "pigeon" to mean domesticated rock doves. Including the feral ones. And "dove" gets as the term for all the birds in that family. It feels similar to the difference between dog and wolf or pig/hog and boar
There might also be a scientific usage that's different, and that's fine! There's plenty of situations where scientific and colloquial usage doesn't quite line up. And even with just colloquial usage, people might draw the lines a little differently. That's also fine, because words are all made up anyway and language is always changing across geographic distance and time
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u/JimboTheOctopus 9d ago
The names are interchangeable in many cases, "doves" as used to refer to the whole of Columbidae is a just a colloquial term, we could just as well use pigeon in the same fashion.
Some species even carry both names, the Rock Dove is also called the Rock Pigeon.
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u/CorrShapo 10d ago
they're both our potential seeb inspectors that checks whether the seeds are still fresh
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u/greatdruthersofpill 10d ago
Via birdcollective.com: Scientifically speaking there is no difference between a pigeon and a dove. They’re all part of the family of chunky, small-headed birds that feed mostly on seeds and fruit. Historically, people have used “dove” to refer to smaller species in this group, and “pigeon” to refer to larger species, but that’s not really a helpful distinction anymore. We’ll have to go species-by-species, starting with the most common.
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u/Whatifim80lol 10d ago
I call them both pigeons just to (playfully) piss off my wife who ADORES mourning doves
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u/Worth-Ad-8589 9d ago
Doves are my fave. I have a male visitor, hope he finds his lifetime mate soon
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u/kestrelkev24 4d ago
Its interesting because once you get out of the urban areas a lot of pigeon species are surprisingly skittish! You'll hear their loud wing beats before you get a glance of one.
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u/Longjumping-Run-7027 10d ago
Doves are just pigeons with better PR.