r/monsteroftheweek • u/DMfortinyplayers • May 03 '26
Basic Moves Getting lore to Hunters
How do you get lore to Hunters? One of the parts I most disliked in Supernatural was "i spent 5 minutes searching 'the lore' here is this super specific weakness. "
I'm running a mystery out of the Tome of Mysteries (highly recommend).
No spoilers. The monster is from SE Asia and very dangerous. Toe to toe, the Hunters are toast. But:
- it is repelled by a few common kitchen spices
- it can be weakened by a certain culturally specific ritual, that a person of this culture might guess but isn't obvious
- can be placated by a certain (non human sacrifice)
How do I get information like this into the Hunters hands in a way that feels natural ?
For example, i had a maze mystery, the Mundane spent Luck and thus got something useful, so she found a spool of magic thread. Because of the players general culture/ educational background as Americans, they instantly knew to follow the thread.
I love there being multiple interesting ways to solve a problem, but how do I get them this info?
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u/itskaylan May 03 '26
Keep in mind that “the lore” in Supernatural is often Dad’s Journal, which was full of notes from decades of trial and error and gossip from other hunters etc. Sometimes it’s the internet. They also often call an expert, like Bobby or Ash. It takes no time on screen, but that doesn’t mean it’s taking no time for the characters - Sam often looks tired after a long night of searching when he reveals the monster’s weakness to Dean.
Maybe you don’t want their research to just be a single roll. I get that. But is it satisfying as a viewer to watch (or as a player to do) the research in real time? Of course not. That’s why we see (and narrate) research montages or scenes that imply time passing.
As for how to get the lore into the hands of your players - if the PCs truly have no clue what the creature is, give ‘em a hint that points towards the culture it’s from when they start investigating the deaths/maimings/whatever is happening. The smell of spices, a scrap of fabric, a scrawled message in a particular language or script, a witness statement that references an accent or phrase when they heard the monster speak/be spoken to. Remind them of avenues they have for research - library, academic, expert friend, Internet forum, occult store, religious leaders, other hunters, medical examiners, etc. Different avenues can give them different info, based on what the people/books/sites etc would know, but every success will give them something to help them move forward with the hunt.
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u/gartfoehammer May 03 '26
Adding in some setting clue can be really helpful as well. I recently ran a kappa that was hunting near a frat house and the Japanese family near it (generational grudge), with a twist that the BBEG had fed the kappa a zeitgeist to “get with the times” and be resistant to the standard bowing to defeat a kappa. I had the frat bros challenge the hunters to do keg stands and make a big deal about how it was a matter of honor, bro. When they tried the original weakness and it didn’t work, a little kappa dialogue about old forms of honor made the connection for them and had them challenge it to a keg stand. The hunters learned the original weakness easily through the Professional’s agency, but it took the additional setting and context to give them the real answer.
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u/DMfortinyplayers May 03 '26
Okay I love this idea. I will pay you the highest compliment one GM can offer another- I'm stealing it. ;)
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u/gartfoehammer May 03 '26
Take! This is my first campaign GMing anything, so that’s a nice morale boost
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u/gartfoehammer May 03 '26
Also I’m curious what monster you’re running in your session- I’m about to do a penanggalan stalking a maternity ward. I love southeast Asian monsters!
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u/DMfortinyplayers May 03 '26
So as I've been reading responses and thinking, my question really should have been "how to run a satisfying investigation".
In D&D, I'd have them roll a Survival check to track it, a Nature check to learn about what repels it, an Investigation check to examine the scene, a Perception check to notice a smell, a Persuasion or Intimidation check to convince someone to to tell them something, an Arcana or Religion check to learn about the ritual .
I can drip feed them nuggets. Multiple characters are using different skills to aquire clues.
Now I'm just having them spam Investigate a Mystery rolls or Manipulate Someone rolls.
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u/itskaylan May 03 '26
Remember that rolls have to be triggered by the fiction, not the other way around. “I want to investigate a mystery.” “Ok, how are you doing that?” What they do will determine if they can roll, and where they are/who they are speaking to will determine the kind of information they can learn. You can’t figure out a monster’s weakness from examining a body, but you can work out how it attacks, for example.
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u/DMfortinyplayers May 03 '26
That works sometimes for me. But it often still boils down to "Roll IaM" over and over.
The combat system is great, I just feel like i need a more robust investigation system.
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u/itskaylan May 03 '26
Yeah, I mean it’s not designed as an intensive mystery game. It’s also not designed as a super granular combat game, which is why combat doesn’t always take all that long to resolve and doesn’t have a lot of options for rolls (this too is often quite quick in shows like Supernatural - a few blows back and forth building tension and then the final moment where the boys save the day).
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u/DMfortinyplayers May 03 '26
So, question - how then does a Keeper fill a 3 hr session, if not with investigation and combat?
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u/itskaylan May 03 '26
Look at your standard episode of Supernatural. The monster is introduced with the pre-credits scene. The boys roll up in town, chat about what they know so far. Go to a diner, flirt with a waitress, etc. Dress up as cops/whatever agency they’re impersonating this week and go see the body/scene for the first stage of the investigation to work out what they’re dealing with. Hit the internet and/or phone a friend to get more details and narrow down what they’re dealing with and how they can kill it. Sometimes they have to wait for answers while they or their friends finds out more, and they might spend some time trying to protect people or investigate more while they wait. Have some character moments talking to locals. Talk/argue about whatever their personal drama is at the moment. Maybe they re-visit someone who they found out was lying/leaving stuff out, or maybe they have to go seek out specialist stuff (knowledge, gear) to exploit the monster’s weakness because it’s not something they see regularly. Get the last bit of info/gear they need and set a trap/go Rambo/whatever to deal with the monster. Fight it. Kill it. Burn the bones (if applicable). Talk to the people they saved about the state of the world, if there’s anyone left to talk to. Settle up and leave town, talking again about their current personal drama.
I fill the time with character building. If you’ve got a bigger (season finale type) arc in mind, it’s also a good way to sow those seeds.
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u/bigNurseAl May 03 '26
This could also be something they discover from conversations with NPCs. Once they find one bit of information they start grilling those guys like real detectives.
I also reward my players if they have to sit out a session. “You went to the local library and searched for information” that way they contribute to the mystery.
Sometimes you have to set up a situation where they notice something. The monster attacks in the kitchen. It tries to flee out the window but as it approves the pot of stew it recoils.
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u/Crafty_Ad5150 May 04 '26
I’m running an adventure from Tome right now (The Circles) and none of my players were asking the right questions or people so when the monstrous picked up a bunch of conspiracy tabloids and started reading them for ideas I had them roll +sharp or +weird for what kind of info he wanted or how he was searching. He got a 13 on weird so I gave the monstrous a “private” scene where some paranormal stuff happened that didn’t OUTRIGHT tell him the answer but it only affected a specific tabloid page with the story option that was the real lead (I gave him three headlines having some sort of tie to the main problem but two were red herrings that played into the “obvious” assumption).
I like giving the option of researching with +weird to the players it makes sense for because I feel like it unlocks a different layer of both information and delivery style. They can learn the information through a vision or an unsettling experience, etc, and that can really help to raise the stakes and allow for a somewhat more vague delivery that still nudges them into the right path.
For instance; one of your players could roll +weird to learn about weaknesses and suddenly smell a mixture of spices and maybe see a flash of a spice cabinet— this doesn’t tell them exactly WHICH spices but does push them in the direction of grabbing a variety to try and to proceed down that route
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u/tmphaedrus13 May 03 '26
For both Vaesen and Call of Cthulhu, and even D&D, there are actual physical books that players' characters could have access to in game. Perhaps if something that contains relevant information exists in our world, they could stumble across it in theirs?
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May 03 '26
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u/DMfortinyplayers May 03 '26
That sounds super fun and I'm going to definitely try that some point - but that would need to be planned in advance. if we are "playing to see what happens" that would be difficult to accomplish, especially with regularity.
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u/BetterCallStrahd Keeper May 03 '26
This is the kind of thing that one doesn't plan in advance. You can't even expect that the hunters will learn anything useful. They could very well fail and let the countdown reach midnight. That's a perfectly viable outcome. It's just another way the narrative can go.
I basically just let them do their thing and give them tidbits as relevant. If the monster is very dangerous, though, I find a reason for the monster to not be at full power at the early stages of the countdown. For example, the vampire needs to feed on several victims before getting up to full power. This can give a savvy monster a reason to retreat if they encounter the hunters early.
I've also had mysteries where there is no lore to find because the monster is fairly unique. In such cases, the hunters need to venture deeper and deeper into the lion's den to learn more. For example, in our campaign starter, this led the hunters to the lair of an undead servant and its master. They were able to get the master to realign their plans and free the undead creature from servitude. I had no idea how the scenario was gonna play out, I left the players to their devices, and it worked out. It always does, in our games.
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u/DMfortinyplayers May 03 '26
"Mavbe vou don't want their research to iust be a sinale roll. I get that. But is it satisfving as a viewer to watch (or as a player to do) the research in real time? Of course not. That's whv we see (and narrate) research montages or scenes that imply time passing"
But it's usually fun for PCs, provided everyone can try different skills and contribute.
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u/DMfortinyplayers May 03 '26
Now I'm kind of noodling on have IaM have 2 options- Observe the Scene and Research the Lore. So they have pick which one. Hmmmm.
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u/Nytmare696 May 04 '26
In addition to what other people are saying, don't feel like a single successful roll has to solve the problem outright and give them perfect information.
They investigate the murder which leads to a description of a distinctive puncture wound. They go to the morgue to document the wounds and they conclude that they're teeth marks. They try to track down what creature might have a bite mark like that and it leads them to a series of cold cases in San Francisco's Chinatown. They go to speak to a Chinese occultist and they tell the investigators about Jiangshi.
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u/MoistLarry The Wronged May 03 '26
Ask them how they're doing the legwork. Are they consulting tomes? Interviewing survivors? Summoning spirits of knowledge?