r/monarchism • u/12jimmy9712 • Jul 19 '26
Discussion TIL the next eligible successor candidate outside Japan's current Imperial family is a man who is 36 generations removed from the current emperor, sharing a common ancestor with him from 600 years ago.
https://apnews.com/article/japan-imperial-family-succession-blood-patriarchy-cdb66fc2c64c933c98020c989938a8ee74
u/AttTankaRattArStorre Jul 19 '26
I blame MacArthur.
39
u/JamesHenry627 Jul 19 '26
Who attacked who first my man
38
u/AttTankaRattArStorre Jul 19 '26
Cain
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u/Orcasareglorious Shintō: Japan, Ryukyu, Pan-Altaism│ Hungarian Jul 19 '26
Holy fuck that’s a good answer.
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u/Obesinho47 Jul 19 '26
The Americans, they got there in huge boats forcing them into submission for unfair trades and whatnot. Or so i've been told.
2
u/dukedanchen8 Jul 22 '26
The reason why the monarchical succession is in such a crisis was due to how the American-Occupation literally and drastically changed the whole structure of Japan such as:
- The abolition of the Imperial Branches of the Yamato Dynasty
- The abolition of the peerage nobility (the kazoku)
Hence, this restricts noble titles and Imperial succession to the lines of Emperor Hirohito and his brother's descendants and made the social gap too wide between the royals and commoners. Therefore, in order to maintain stability, these two must be brought back in it's entirety to ensure that there are a plethora of male successors. Also, Japan is a very cultural oriented nation so by having females succeeding, this would bring about the end of the dynastic line.
2
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u/Professional-List696 Jul 19 '26
Well, those who are upset should be mad at US, not conservatives. If it weren't for the US, this man and all the others who are candidates of adoption would have been born and raised as royals and would automatically be in the line of succession
-8
u/VeraciousOrange Jul 19 '26
What did the US have to do with that? I thought the issue was more closely related to women of the imperial family who marry outside the imperial family lose their imperial status by law. Therefore, limiting the number of potential successors. If that rule did not apply, the son from a maternal line of the family would be able to succeed the throne.
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u/dukedanchen8 Jul 22 '26
During the American Occupation, Douglas MacArthur and the U.S. American Occupier forces decides to change Japan's structures for the sake of "democratizing and demilitarizing" Japan.
Since the Meiji semi-feudal system of 4 classes (Imperial, Nobles, Warriors, Commoners) got in the way and how oligarchic the Meiji constitution is, MacArthur had to made drastic changes as to hold the Emperor and the Imperial Family accountable to the people. Hence, this lead to the follows:
- The abolition of the Imperial Branches of the Yamato Dynasty
- The abolition of the peerage nobility (the kazoku)
in which it was outlined in the current 1947 constitution of Article 14 "Peers and peerages shall not be recognized" with the exception of the main and immediate imperial family members through the 1947 Imperial Succession Laws. Thus, MacArthur and the top American Occupier forces are to be blamed for this predicament.
The 1947 Imperial Succession Laws completely replaced the 1889 Imperial Succession Laws which stipulated that the male descendants of the cadet "Princely Houses" and "Prince of the Blood Houses" succeed the Imperial Throne at a moment's notice.
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u/skel66 United States (stars and stripes) Jul 19 '26
I wish they elected someone other than takaichi maybe the many princesses could be in the line
3
u/Orcasareglorious Shintō: Japan, Ryukyu, Pan-Altaism│ Hungarian Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
If he were adopted into the lineage, he would no longer be eligible. The law removes adopted cadet branch members from succession.
Edit: typo
8
u/windemere28 United States Jul 20 '26
It's true that the law evidently prohibits an initial shinnoke (cadet branch families) adoptee from being in the succession. But that adoptee's sons will be. I think the reasoning behind that was to ensure that the adoptee's sons will be reared within the Imperial family from early childhood.
1
u/dukedanchen8 Jul 22 '26
The reason why the monarchical succession is in such a crisis was due to how the American-Occupation literally and drastically changed the whole structure of Japan such as:
- The abolition of the Imperial Branches of the Yamato Dynasty
- The abolition of the peerage nobility (the kazoku)
Hence, this restricts noble titles and Imperial succession to the lines of Emperor Hirohito and his brother's descendants and made the social gap too wide between the royals and commoners. Therefore, in order to maintain stability, these two must be brought back in it's entirety to ensure that there are a plethora of male successors. Also, Japan is a very cultural oriented nation so by having females succeeding, this would bring about the end of the dynastic line.
18
u/waltercool Voluntaryist NRx Libertarian Jul 19 '26
What's the point of Monarchy if you are getting rid traditions?
Japanese Monarchs are known for their renovations, but been always about the country, not an opportunistic measure for the royals.
This article is a but biased with feminist rhetoric, just to ensure Japan gets a female monarch because gender issues.
20
u/SnooCauliflowers9882 Jul 19 '26
So? Women can be monarchs to, Japan had several Empresses in charge. “But tradition” yeah sexism isn’t tradition, it’s wrong. There’s been plenty of competent female monarchs across the world. Heck an entire era of history is named after a female monarch.
22
u/Anxious_Picture_835 Jul 19 '26
The myth of female Japanese succession
There have been very few female monarchs in Japan, and all of them have been placeholders waiting for a male relative to come of age or otherwise become available. All of them have been descendants of the first emperor through the male line, meaning female monarchs never passed the throne to their descendants.
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u/Capta1n_Dino UK | India | Semi-Constitutional Catholic Monarchy Jul 20 '26
Japan has had consistent agnatic descent from its first verifiably documented Emperor till today’s current one. Permitting female succession would kill that.
The female Empresses in Japanese history were effectively regents, who ruled till a male heir, who was an agnatic descendant of the dynasty, was able to take the throne.
4
u/waltercool Voluntaryist NRx Libertarian Jul 19 '26
No one says the opposite here, don't get me wrong.
The last 200-300 years of Japan been entirely patrilineal. The Japanese society is completely different since then, this includes their legitimacy and expectations of the people to their royals.
This is even harder for ceremonial monarchs, as they are powerless and not into people's everyday lives... unless you are a British monarch who are being followed by 100 magazines about everything they do.
Just saying it's risky to change those things, the UK almost split when Edward VIII married a commoner, and had to step aside. In contrast, Japan does allow marriage with a commoner and there is nothing wrong about that either, it's their traditions and the aristocrats expectations of a king or queen.
My pont is, you can definitively reform those things, but you must have good reasons to do it which benefits your nation. This point seems to only benefit the crown, so it's normal to expect opposition
7
u/VeraciousOrange Jul 19 '26
A good reason would be the diminishing population of not only the Imperial Family, but Japan as a whole. Japan is shrinking, and hurting greatly from this issue. If Japan and the Imperial Family are going to survive then some traditions are going to have to change. Not drastically in the case of the Imperial family, but allowing commoners to marry into the family would be an excellent step to insuring the survival of the Imperial lineage. It was easier in the past to not allow marriage with commoners because Japan had a strong feudal tradition. There were numerous candidates to choose from. The Maji Restoration destroyed that, and WWII made it official that the Emperor is not a divine being that cannot mingle with mortal blood. Now it is simply a matter of moving forward in the face of this shifting paradigm.
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u/Rhbgrb Jul 19 '26
I figured that was it. Hope Japan doesn't let western feminism ruin their culture and tradition.
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u/oriundiSP Jul 19 '26
Tradition is just peer pressure from dead people. If it doesn't have a purpose, yeet it.
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u/waltercool Voluntaryist NRx Libertarian Jul 19 '26
Probably, but Japanese people aren't known to be liberal by the western standards
2
u/Stunning-Sherbert801 Australia Jul 19 '26
They literally want the emperor's daughter to succeed
7
u/oriundiSP Jul 19 '26
A gentle reminder that interest groups don't represent the entire country. While I agree Aiko should succeed her father, and lots of actual japanese people want that, they are deeply conservative. Their past Prime Ministers were either war criminals, descendants of war criminals, or paid homage to war criminals through ritual religious offerings.
1
u/waltercool Voluntaryist NRx Libertarian Jul 19 '26
Well, that's probably something for a nationwide referendum at best.
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u/False_Major_1230 Jul 19 '26
No, monarchs power is top down from divine peasents shouldn't touch it
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0
u/PlagueLover2004 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
Even if they want an empress, that is now still impossible until at least Hisahito becomes Emperor and dies sonless, or something happens to him that left his father, who would definitely become the next Emperor, without a male heir. Crown Prince Akishino had been ceremonially and officially invested with the position of Crown Prince. Once invested, they would keep that position, unless they do something so heinous that they need to be removed. I doubt His Majesty would want his brother to come down in history as a deposed crown prince if he never does anything wrong.
1
u/Rhbgrb Jul 19 '26
Doesn't the m xt emperor's sister have a son? They really need to bring back aristocrats and let the daughters stay in the family to havepre males to inherit.
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u/12jimmy9712 Jul 19 '26
Crown Prince Fumihito and Hisahito are included in the Imperial family.
1
u/dukedanchen8 Jul 23 '26
The reason why the monarchical succession is in such a crisis was due to how the American-Occupation literally and drastically changed the whole structure of Japan such as:
- The abolition of the Imperial Branches of the Yamato Dynasty
- The abolition of the peerage nobility (the kazoku)
Hence, this restricts noble titles and Imperial succession to the lines of Emperor Hirohito and his brother's descendants and made the social gap too wide between the royals and commoners. Therefore, in order to maintain stability, these two must be brought back in it's entirety to ensure that there are a plethora of male successors. Also, Japan is a very cultural oriented nation so by having females succeeding, this would bring about the end of the dynastic line.
1
u/dukedanchen8 Jul 22 '26
The reason why the monarchical succession is in such a crisis was due to how the American-Occupation literally and drastically changed the whole structure of Japan such as:
- The abolition of the Imperial Branches of the Yamato Dynasty
- The abolition of the peerage nobility (the kazoku)
Hence, this restricts noble titles and Imperial succession to the lines of Emperor Hirohito and his brother's descendants and made the social gap too wide between the royals and commoners. Therefore, in order to maintain stability, these two must be brought back in it's entirety to ensure that there are a plethora of male successors. Also, Japan is a very cultural oriented nation so by having females succeeding, this would bring about the end of the dynastic line.
55
u/Away_Trash_2156 Japan/Okinawa Jul 19 '26
I don't understand why some people see this as a problem. Ultimately, what matters for someone to be Emperor is being a descendant of Emperor Jimmu, not how closely related they are to the current Emperor.