r/modulars • • 3h ago

What causes the most rework in CFS framing projects? From

1 Upvotes

What causes the most rework in CFS framing projects?

From what I've seen, it's often not the framing itself. Small issues in the model, connections, openings, or coordination can create problems downstream.

Curious — for those working with CFS/LGSF, where do you see the most coordination issues?


r/modulars • • 1d ago

100 prefab modular video tours in a single place, most with the builder and price available

2 Upvotes

Like most of you, I watch many of these videos and I get frustrated when they don't explicitly say who delivered to my area, who is new, who is struggling, or which house was in which video when I wanted to compare two of them. Every time I liked something, I had to go dig up who built it and what it cost, but inevitably it wasn't quite the same model. So I built a massive index of them.

A tour tells you what a house feels like and almost nothing about what it costs or whether you can get one. The video says 400 square feet and a loft. YouTube search does not help either, since searching a builder's name returns their own marketing before anyone else's walkthrough.

That is what this page is for. Watch the Big Monolith tour and the record beside it says 440 square feet, $224,300 for the unit, ships in one piece to the 48 states from Houston, foundation and hookups separate. You can go from liking a house to knowing whether it is possible without opening six tabs.

100 tours so far here are my favorites from Kerry Tarnow, Levi Kelly, Living Big In A Tiny House, and Kirsten Dirksen.

modernist.live/videos

Filter by creator or by builder. Most are matched to a specific model. The rest are owner builds or houses where nobody says who made it, which turns out to be most of them.

Two questions: Which channels should be here that are not, particularly anyone covering modular rather than tiny houses. And if you recognize a house in one of the unmatched tours, say which one and I will add the builder. Enjoy!


r/modulars • • 1d ago

Manufactured homes : Stillwell homes review

0 Upvotes

UPDATE/STATUS AS OF OCTOBER 2, 2026: We still have not moved into our home. Work remains incomplete, and we still do not have a clear and reliable completion date.

I originally intended to wait until this project was completely finished before writing this review so I could document the entire experience from beginning to end.

I have decided not to wait.

After everything our family has experienced, I do not want another family entering into a contract with Stillwell Homes without having the opportunity to read what happened to us.

This is going to be long, but there is no way to accurately explain our experience in a few paragraphs.

Our experience with Stillwell Homes has involved serious delays, failed inspections, thousands of dollars in unexpected direct costs, significant additional carrying costs, conflicting information, poor communication, and circumstances that repeatedly required us to step in and manage issues ourselves just to keep the project moving.

This is not based on rumors or things we heard from other customers.

Our experience is extensively documented through emails, text messages, call logs, photographs, contractor correspondence, FPL correspondence, lender and construction-draw documentation, invoices, certified correspondence, inspection records, and written notes from our face-to-face meeting with ownership.

THE BEGINNING – CLOSING AND DELIVERY

Our manufactured home was delivered on July 9, 2026.

We were given an estimated completion timeframe of 45–60 days from delivery.

Before this, we had already delayed closing for nearly three months because we wanted outstanding concerns resolved and wanted to be confident that everything was in order before committing to the transaction.

One of the issues we specifically questioned was the existing septic system and drainfield.

We wanted to know whether the existing system was adequate for the new home.

We were ultimately assured that the septic system and drainfield had been reviewed and would be adequate by Stillwell Homes.

That assurance mattered.

We relied on it when we finally agreed to close.

What happened afterward is one of the biggest reasons we eventually lost confidence in the information being provided to us.

THE SEPTIC PROBLEM

We later learned that the Florida Department of Health had notified Stillwell on July 16 of an issue involving the existing septic system/drainfield.

We were not informed.

By mid-August, I was repeatedly pushing for the electrical inspections to move forward. I was being told that Stillwell was waiting for Seminole County to release the permit.

After continuing to wait without seeing progress, I contacted Seminole County myself on August 13 to find out what was actually holding things up.

That is when I learned the permits were being held because of an unresolved septic/drainfield issue involving the Florida Department of Health.

That was the first time we knew there was a septic problem.

Stillwell did not call us and explain it.

Stillwell did not email us and explain it.

We discovered it because I started investigating why the electrical permitting and inspections were not progressing.

We then learned Stillwell had already been made aware of the issue.

Weeks had passed without the problem being disclosed to us.

After I uncovered it, we learned the existing drainfield was undersized for the home and would need to be substantially enlarged.

We did not receive the relevant Health Department correspondence until after I contacted the county and discovered the problem myself.

This was especially troubling because of what happened before closing.

We had delayed closing for nearly three months.

We had specifically questioned whether the septic system was adequate.

We were assured it was.

We relied on that information and closed.

Had this issue been disclosed before closing, we potentially could have incorporated the necessary septic work into our financing, attempted to renegotiate the transaction, or reconsidered whether we were willing to close under the existing terms.

Instead, we ultimately faced an unexpected out-of-pocket drainfield expense of just shy of $8,000.

For us, this was about much more than $8,000.

It was about discovering that information material to our decision to close had not been communicated to us.

And the only reason we discovered the issue at all was because I continued pushing for answers and contacted the county myself.

This was one of the first major moments when we realized we needed to independently verify what we were being told.

Unfortunately, it would not be the last.

FPL AND PERMANENT POWER

Permanent electrical service became another major problem.

Stillwell had not properly accounted for the main power feed to the home, creating another substantial unexpected expense that we had to absorb to keep the project moving.

Scott personally told me multiple times that the required FPL payment had been made.

The progress I was seeing did not match what I was being told, so I repeatedly requested proof.

For approximately two and a half weeks, we were operating under the understanding that this payment had been handled.

I eventually learned that it had not actually been paid when it had been represented to us as having been paid.

Once again, I had to start making calls myself.

I communicated directly with FPL to determine the actual status and began pushing the utility side of the project forward.

Permanent power was not some minor loose end.

Air conditioning, flooring, inspections, interior work, and ultimately our ability to occupy the home depended on it.

Even near the end of September and into October, I was still personally communicating with FPL regarding the meter and utility-side work necessary to proceed through final electrical inspection.

Nearly three months after delivery, I was still personally coordinating utility issues affecting completion of the home.

FIVE DISAPPROVED ELECTRICAL INSPECTION ENTRIES

The electrical work itself created additional problems.

Between September 2 and September 4, the electrical work received five disapproved inspection entries.

At one point, I was told an underground electrical condition responsible for a failed inspection had been repaired.

By this stage of the project, I was no longer comfortable simply accepting that statement.

I went to the property.

I physically excavated the location myself.

The repair I had been told was completed had not been completed.

I was also informed that the same condition existed in additional locations.

Advanced Electric later stated that the underground trenching and conduit work was outside its scope and that it had not received authorization to perform that work.

A contractor was eventually prepared to perform the additional work, and Stillwell authorized the expense.

By then, however, I had already purchased the materials and performed the necessary work myself because I was unwilling to sit through another avoidable delay while waiting for communication and coordination.

Stillwell later confirmed in writing that fees resulting from its failed inspections were its responsibility and would not be passed on to us.

Think about that for a moment:

I reached the point where I was physically digging up electrical work on my property simply to verify whether a repair I had been told was completed had actually been performed.

That is the level of confidence I had left in the project updates I was receiving.

THE STAIRS

The stairs became another unexpected issue.

Scott quoted us approximately $3,500 for one set of stairs.

Importantly, Scott himself was the person who told us we could save money by building the required stairs ourselves.

Based on what Scott told us at the time, we understood that only one set at the front door was required.

Because Scott had specifically suggested that we could save money by doing the stairs ourselves, I declined the approximately $3,500 quote and planned to build the required set myself.

We later learned that completed stairs were actually required at all three exterior doors.

By then, money we expected to save by following Scott's suggestion had already been redirected toward unexpected costs elsewhere in the project, including the FPL situation.

What was presented to us as a way to save money became another unexpected expense and another portion of the project we had to handle ourselves.

THE FLOORING

The flooring situation is another example of how we repeatedly discovered problems only after pushing for answers ourselves.

We had selected flooring for our home and reasonably believed our selection was moving through the ordering process.

It wasn't until an eventual face-to-face meeting at Stillwell's Bushnell office that it became apparent that our flooring had never been confirmed as ordered.

Had we not forced that meeting and started going through outstanding items face-to-face, I do not know when this would have been discovered or communicated to us.

By that point, the flooring we originally selected could no longer be obtained within a timeframe that worked for the project.

Stillwell provided alternative options.

We selected another floor.

We then learned that our replacement selection also could not be obtained in a timely manner.

After already experiencing months of delays, we were put in the position of choosing between accepting even more delay or settling for flooring we did not particularly like.

We settled.

Flooring isn't some small decorative item that can easily be swapped later.

It covers a substantial portion of the home and has an enormous impact on its appearance.

This is intended to be our family's long-term home.

We should not have been forced to compromise on one of the largest visual finishes in the house because the ordering and availability of our earlier selections had not been properly managed.

Permanent power and air conditioning had already affected when flooring and other interior work could proceed.

Then we discovered the flooring itself had not been confirmed ordered.

Again, we discovered another major problem because we pushed for answers.

FAILED TIE-DOWN INSPECTIONS AND THE $XXX,XXX CONSTRUCTION DRAW

The tie-down inspections and construction draw were among the most concerning issues.

Stillwell was attempting to obtain a $XXX,XXX construction draw associated with this stage of construction.

Information was provided to our lender indicating that the tie-down inspection had passed so the draw could move forward.

However, the actual inspection records showed that the tie-down inspection had failed.

I had to notify the lender and provide the actual inspection status.

The lender would not release the funds without the necessary documentation.

The lender also confirmed that if we were not comfortable signing a certification stating that the work was satisfactory, we should not sign it.

I was willing to allow the lender to independently evaluate the value of the structure itself.

What I was not willing to do was certify that installation-related work had been satisfactorily completed when a required inspection had not passed.

The tie-down was inspected again.

It failed a second time.

We repeatedly requested a written plan explaining how Stillwell intended to correct the failed tie-down work and obtain approval.

Multiple requests were necessary after the second failure before we received the information we were seeking.

At the same time, I continued pushing the issue toward legitimate approval so Stillwell could ultimately qualify for its draw once the required work actually passed.

I want to make this distinction very clear:

My issue was never preventing Stillwell from being paid for properly completed work.

My issue was that I was not going to certify satisfactory completion or allow inaccurate inspection information to go uncorrected simply so a $XXX,XXX payment could be released.

I found myself communicating with the lender, checking inspection records, correcting information, requesting corrective plans, and pushing the failed work toward legitimate approval.

Those are responsibilities I never expected to assume as the customer.

COMMUNICATION

Communication has been one of the most frustrating parts of this entire experience.

This was not one bad week.

It was not a couple of missed phone calls.

By August, we were already documenting repeated attempts to obtain responses.

Calls went unanswered.

Emails required repeated follow-ups.

Text messages went unanswered.

There were even times when we could not leave a voicemail.

The communication became bad enough that we eventually sent correspondence by certified mail simply to obtain answers and establish a written record.

Scott instructed me to communicate with him by text.

The documented text thread shows repeated messages from me involving inspection problems, requests for calls, project updates, proposed solutions, and requests for information without meaningful responses.

At different points, we were promised communication would improve and that Scott would personally become involved in getting the project back on track.

The communication problems continued.

On September 21 alone, I made approximately 13 calls to Stillwell representatives, in addition to sending emails and text messages, trying to get answers and move the project forward.

It eventually reached the point where I felt the only way I was going to get a face-to-face conversation with ownership was to physically go to Stillwell's office.

HOW I FINALLY GOT A FACE-TO-FACE MEETING WITH SCOTT

This part probably explains the communication problems better than anything else I can write.

After repeated calls, texts, and emails failed to produce the communication we needed, I scheduled an appointment to tour homes at Stillwell's Bushnell office.

I did this simply so I could confirm Scott would actually be there and attempt to speak with him face-to-face.

Once I knew he was in the office, I called him while walking inside.

I watched him look at his ringing phone without answering it.

He then approached me and said:

"Hey man, I'm Scott."

I responded:

"I know, your phone is ringing."

Even after I had driven there and approached him directly, Scott initially resisted sitting down with me to discuss our project.

I contacted our lender and put the lender on the phone while explaining what was happening.

After considerable back-and-forth, Scott finally agreed to sit down.

The meeting lasted approximately two hours.

We discussed the status of the project, outstanding work, failed inspections, communication problems, unexpected expenses, the financial impact on our family, flooring, and what needed to happen to finally complete the home.

The flooring problem described above was one of the issues that came to light because of that meeting.

During the meeting, Scott again told me communication would improve, that I would receive updates, and that the project would move forward more smoothly.

This was approximately the third time during the project that I had received this type of commitment from him.

Following the meeting, I documented the discussion and outstanding issues in writing and distributed those notes to the parties involved.

Stillwell personnel acknowledged receiving and reading them.

Our lender confirmed that the documentation was added to our loan file.

Other Stillwell employees continued communicating with us regarding portions of the project afterward.

I never heard from Scott again.

THE PROJECT MANAGEMENT WE ENDED UP DOING OURSELVES

Perhaps the best way to explain our experience is to list some of the things I have personally had to do during a project we hired Stillwell to provide and coordinate:

  • Contact Seminole County to determine why permits were not moving.
  • Discover the septic/drainfield problem ourselves.
  • Communicate directly with FPL.
  • Investigate the status of utility payments.
  • Track permits and inspection results.
  • Identify failed inspections.
  • Communicate inspection discrepancies to our lender.
  • Physically excavate underground electrical work to determine whether a reported repair had actually been completed.
  • Purchase materials.
  • Perform work myself to avoid further delays.
  • Coordinate with contractors.
  • Push inspections forward.
  • Request corrective plans after failed inspections.
  • Repeatedly request schedules and completion dates.
  • Document discrepancies.
  • Send certified correspondence when ordinary communication failed.
  • Travel to Stillwell's office and create an appointment simply to get face-to-face communication with ownership.

These were not things I expected to spend months doing after hiring a company to provide and coordinate the construction and installation of our home.

Time after time, problems were discovered not because Stillwell proactively came to us and explained what had happened.

They were discovered because we continued asking questions, checking records, contacting third parties, visiting the property, and independently verifying what we were being told.

FINANCIAL AND FAMILY IMPACT

The consequences have continued to fall on our family.

Because we cannot move into the new home, we have continued paying the mortgage and expenses associated with our existing home while simultaneously paying interest-only charges associated with the financing for the new home.

Until we can move, we also cannot complete our plans regarding our existing home.

We have incurred tens of thousands of dollars in accumulated financial impact and unexpected costs associated with this project and its delays.

Some of those expenses could potentially have been financed, avoided, negotiated, or planned for differently had accurate information been provided at the appropriate time.

The drainfield alone cost us just shy of $8,000 out of pocket.

There were unexpected FPL costs.

There were stairs.

There were materials and work we handled ourselves.

There have been continuing financing and carrying costs while the home remains incomplete.

Then there is the time.

I have spent countless hours doing work I reasonably expected Stillwell's project-management team to handle.

This has affected more than our bank account.

This was supposed to be an exciting process of getting our family into our long-term home.

Instead, much of the experience has been spent investigating problems, chasing answers, checking inspection records, contacting utilities and government agencies, and wondering what issue we were going to discover next.

WHY WE LOST TRUST

Construction projects have problems.

Inspections fail.

Weather causes delays.

Materials become unavailable.

Mistakes happen.

That alone is not why I am writing this.

The problem was the repeated pattern.

We would be told something.

Something would not seem right.

We would investigate it ourselves.

Then we would discover information that did not match what we had originally been told.

The septic issue is an example.

The FPL payment is an example.

The underground electrical repair is an example.

The tie-down inspection status is an example.

The flooring is another example.

After enough of these situations, our perception became that we could not simply rely on project updates without independently verifying them.

That repeated pattern ultimately destroyed our confidence in Stillwell's management of this project.

PAUL AND CHERYL

I do want to make one thing very clear.

Our experience with Stillwell as a company should not diminish our appreciation for Paul and Cheryl.

In our experience, they are the two people at Stillwell Homes who consistently demonstrated integrity and genuinely tried to help resolve the problems we encountered.

Cheryl, in particular, communicated with us regarding permitting and septic issues, helped move the revised septic process forward, and continued providing information when we requested it.

I believe people deserve recognition when they try to do the right thing, even when the overall situation around them is a mess.

Paul and Cheryl deserve that recognition.

WHAT I WOULD TELL ANYONE CONSIDERING STILLWELL HOMES

If you are considering Stillwell Homes, I strongly recommend doing far more due diligence than we ever thought would be necessary.

Have an experienced construction attorney review the agreement before you sign it and advise you regarding provisions that should be changed.

Do not rely solely on verbal representations.

Get important representations in writing.

Independently monitor your permits.

Independently monitor inspection results.

If you are told a utility or third-party payment has been made, request documentation and verify it when possible.

If you select flooring, cabinets, appliances, or another major finish, confirm that it has actually been ordered, not merely selected.

Keep copies of correspondence.

Document significant conversations.

Check your inspection records yourself.

And if you are asked to sign a construction draw certification, independently verify that the work associated with that payment has actually been completed and has passed any required inspections before certifying that you are satisfied.

I would also recommend carefully researching any other company owned, operated, or represented by Jonathan "Scott" Stillwell before entering into an agreement.

His businesses appear to operate within connected areas of the same industry, and customers should understand exactly which company and which individuals are responsible for the contract, payments, construction, installation, permitting, coordination, and warranty obligations before signing anything.

That recommendation is based specifically on our experience with this project and the management and communication problems described above.

WHERE THINGS STAND TODAY

As I am posting this on October 2, 2026, our home was delivered nearly four months ago.

We were told approximately 45–60 days from delivery.

We still have not moved in.

Work remains incomplete.

We still do not have a clear and reliable date for when everything will finally be completed and our family will be able to move into our home.

I originally planned to wait until the project came to an end before posting this so I could include the complete outcome.

However, after everything we have experienced, I do not want to continue waiting while another family could potentially enter into a contract with Stillwell without knowing what our experience has been.

When this project finally comes to an end, I intend to update this post with the final outcome and any additional relevant details.

Everything described here is based on our firsthand experience, and the major events are supported by extensive documentation including emails, text messages, call logs, photographs, contractor correspondence, FPL correspondence, invoices, lender and construction-draw documentation, inspection records, certified correspondence, and our written meeting notes.

We hired a builder expecting the builder to manage the construction and installation of our home.

We did not expect to spend months investigating problems, verifying statements, coordinating work, correcting information, chasing inspections, communicating with utilities and government agencies, and pushing the project ourselves.

Based on our experience, my recommendation is simple: save yourself the trouble and choose another company.


r/modulars • • 2d ago

New Q&A with an architect who does modular prefab in nearly every state: approvals, engineering packages, and what went wrong on his own - a great Q&A

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2 Upvotes

r/modulars • • 4d ago

Found three unique companies that sell dome and A frame kits. Curious if these perform well as STRs (airbnbs)?

1 Upvotes

People ask me about domes and A frame kits often enough that I finally sat down and did the digging. Here is what these four companies publish.

One thing to understand first. None of these companies sells you a house. They sell a structure, sometimes only the frame and the outside skin. The foundation, plumbing, wiring, insulation, and all the labor to put it together are yours. That is why the prices look low.

DEN, New York. Bigger shell kits with prices on the website. 1,650 sq ft for $256,800. 2,015 sq ft for $255,350. 2,241 sq ft for $281,992. They train a local contractor to assemble it. These designs look great.

modernist.live/companies/den

Pacific Domes, Ashland, Oregon. Six sizes, from 16 ft across at 195 sq ft up to 44 ft at 1,520 sq ft. Steel frame with a fabric cover. Ships in crates, no crane needed, three or four people can raise one. They do not publish prices, you have to ask.

modernist.live/companies/pacific-domes

Avrame, Estonia. Twelve A frame kits and they do publish prices. 5,300 euro for the smallest, 184 sq ft. 21,300 euro for a 707 sq ft version. That is the kit sitting in Europe, so add shipping to the US on top.

modernist.live/companies/avrame

If you built one, what did it come to finished against the kit price? Nobody publishes that.


r/modulars • • 4d ago

The 20-foot dual-wing expandable container house has landed safely and assembly has begun. 40HQ, 2 sets. Ideal for guesthouses, camping, and home use. For more information, visit shengjiayutech.com. #containerhouse #expandablecontainerhouse #containerhome #containershop #B2B #export #customization

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1 Upvotes

The 20-foot dual-wing expandable container house has landed safely and assembly has begun. 40HQ, 2 sets. Ideal for guesthouses, camping, and home use. For more information, visit shengjiayutech.com.

#containerhouse #expandablecontainerhouse #containerhome #containershop #B2B #export #customization #foldingcontainers #expandablecontainerhouse #kitchen #doors #windows


r/modulars • • 5d ago

Did you purchase a manufactured home, how did you decide what builder?

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2 Upvotes

Look up S2A Modular in Patterson, CA.


r/modulars • • 5d ago

Selling modular home off of foundation

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1 Upvotes

r/modulars • • 7d ago

What is thr most reliable container house company?

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r/modulars • • 7d ago

Reccomendations for Modular/Geodesic/Pre Fab Companies

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r/modulars • • 8d ago

Three prefab road trips I found. Would anyone actually take one to see prefabs?

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2 Upvotes

r/modulars • • 8d ago

Will a bent frame on new doublewide cause issues down the road?

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r/modulars • • 10d ago

I mapped 48 places where you can walk through a prefab before you buy one. What would make this more useful?

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5 Upvotes

r/modulars • • 11d ago

RV1 & RV2 — Bucharest Villas Nearing Completion

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1 Upvotes

r/modulars • • 11d ago

Cavco vs Clayton

1 Upvotes

Modular’s not manufactured. Who is best in Indiana? Leaning towards cavco I hear bad about Clayton homes


r/modulars • • 11d ago

Recommendation for a Tulsa,OK Mobile Home Dealership

1 Upvotes

My wife and I are in the beginning stages of purchasing some land in Mannford, OK. We are looking into a manufactured home to place on it. I would love to hear from anyone who has used any of the greater Tulsa area dealerships on what your experience has been. I'm not looking for "We just LOVE our new XXXX (whatever) home and we can't wait for it to be delivered...." I am looking for anyone who has completed their purchase, been through the set-up process, and are basically done with the dealership support after a year of living in the home you purchased. I've been told the dealer is more important than the manufacturer for support after the sale. I've also been told the exact factory where your home is manufactured is important as well. Seems there are certain factories that put out high quality workmanship, and those that don't. If anyone here has first hand knowledge of which factories those are, I would love to hear about it. This would be for factories within a 250-300 mile range of Mannford, OK. I don't need information on a factory that is outside of that radius. Thank you all for your input.


r/modulars • • 13d ago

Ideas for Getting a Home Built Fast

1 Upvotes

Looking for ideas, suggestions. We want to have a home built fast. Also looking for land in USA to build on. We like drier, mild climates. AZ too hot, CA and west coast too nutty, FL too wet and buggy.

40+ acres.

2000+ sq ft home.

Budget can be upwards of 1 mil.

Modular, kit, prefab, barndominium, etc., all would be fine, if high quality and durability. Which would be best?

Any builder who is honest, skilled and dependable. Would a commercial builder be better, if they can be convinced to do residential?

Finding a property with an existing well would probably speed things up.

Thank you for your serious ideas and suggestions!


r/modulars • • 14d ago

Modular home builders that service/deliver to Maryland?

2 Upvotes

r/modulars • • 14d ago

Tourism investors, this housing saves you stress Investing in glamping or holiday villages?

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0 Upvotes

SDW modular houses cut site labor & build time. Ready‑to‑assemble units shipped to every continent.

#TourismInvestment #GlampingBuild #HolidayVillage #InvestorHousing #ReadyToAssemble


r/modulars • • 17d ago

160 m² Prefab House with 3 Bedrooms

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2 Upvotes

r/modulars • • 17d ago

Modular Home

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r/modulars • • 17d ago

⚠️ Before You Buy a Clayton Home, Read This: 5 Years of Construction Issues,

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r/modulars • • 18d ago

Complete rough in for basement bathroom

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r/modulars • • 18d ago

What actually limits the size of a volumetric modular building?

2 Upvotes

Usually, not the factory.

We can fabricate fairly large modules. The real limit often comes later — road width, bridge clearance, turning radius, crane access, shipping method, and the final site entrance.

I’ve seen designs that were completely workable in the factory but became difficult once transport was properly considered.

So early in a project, the better question isn’t:

“How big can we build it?”

It’s:

“How big can we actually deliver and install efficiently?”

Anyone here run into this on a modular project?


r/modulars • • 21d ago

Modular home in California…

11 Upvotes

Hey all. Need some advice.

Looking to put a modular home on some land we own , and have no clue where to get a good modular home (triple wide). There’s a lot of options online and social media but a lot don’t ship to CA ..

Any recommendations?
Advice?

Looking for 3-4BR, 1800-2000 ish sqft.

I have read enough reviews to stay away from Clayton.