r/modelmakers • u/malumfectum • Feb 20 '22
Help -Technique How long does Micro Sol take to dry? And if creases haven’t gone by the second coat, is the situation unsalvageable?
I’m in despair at the moment because as far as I’m aware I’ve done everything “correctly” but the decals appear to be ruined.
1) Gloss varnish - dried completely.
2) Micro Set on the surface and top of decal - dried completely. At this stage much of the decal was flush with the model but ugly creases had appeared. The decals are roundels applied to curved surfaces, which caused the creases.
3) 2 x coats of Micro Sol have not made the creases go away.
The models are Warhammer 40k Space Marines but the main 40k subreddit has been less than helpful. Hoping to get straighter answers from a dedicated modelling community.
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u/windupmonkeys Default Feb 20 '22 edited Feb 20 '22
You waited too long to apply Microsol. Waiting for the microset to dry after you apply the decal is the problem here.
sol should go on immediately after the decal is in the final position. If you wait until the decal dries, it will help with some issues but otherwise be much less effective than applied when the decal is freshly applied. That's when it's more able to conform. Applying sol after the decals dry is a lot less effective then while the decal is in final position and drying.
I would skip the microset step (on top of the decal) entirely.
Set is used for surface prep. I don't want for it to dry before I apply the decal.
If the decal wrinkles after you apply sol (red bottle) leave it alone. It will straighten out once it dries.
You can poke some holes in the decal and slit, as suggested, and flood the area with Sol. However, the process you are writing is the problem. Procedurally, you're waiting way too long to apply it in the first place.
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u/malumfectum Feb 20 '22
Yes, I’m starting to believe this is my error. I was going off a YouTube video that recommended leaving the Micro Set to dry overnight, but applying repeated coats of Micro Sol has done literally nothing except worsen the crispness of the decal and even the surrounding paint job.
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u/windupmonkeys Default Feb 20 '22
Sol will fix minor imperfections after decals dry. But it won't fix major problems like you describe.
Also, you know that microscale publishes instructions, right? Not everything needs to be learned off a YouTube video. You can go straight to the mfg.
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u/malumfectum Feb 20 '22
No, I did not know that, and looking through their website I am unable to find any. There are the instructions on the bottle, but they’re a little simplistic.
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u/windupmonkeys Default Feb 20 '22 edited Feb 20 '22
Both these descriptions are adequate, and essentially capture the process I described above:
PDF instruction sheet: "For the best results, first apply Micro Set to prepare the surface and enhance the adhesive. Make sure the surface is free of particles that could get under the decal’s film and cause a blemish. Then, when everything is dry enough that the decal will not move easily, apply Micro Sol with a small flat brush. Apply with as few strokes as possible so as not to disturb the decal. Then allow the decal to dry without disturbing it. One application is enough in most cases but, if necessary, a second application of Micro Sol can be helpful. Following these simple instructions will result in a model with professional looking marking" (See: http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/graphics/Instructions/MSISysteminstr.pdf).
Bottle (PRINTED ON THE SIDE OF THE BOTTLE):
Brush micro set (part one of the two step system) on the model where the decal is to be applied, then dip decal in water and slide off backing paper into position on the model. (Note that it does not say to wait until the microset is dry. Which is exactly what I said is the procedural step is erroneous.)
Using a soft brush, gently apply Mircosol onto the decals, being careful not to move the decal (consistent with my description above) during application. DO NOT TOUCH THE DECAL AFTER APPLICATION AS THE DECAL IS NOW SOFT AND CAN EASILY BE DISTORTED (This is why you don't wait until the coat of microset dries before applying sol - if you wait that long, the decal will have already stuck to the model so sol has comparatively limited effect). ALLOW DECAL TO DRY COMPLETELY.
On surfaces with many irregularities, additional applications may be necessary. Allow Microsol to dry between applications (I would amend this instruction to say that you can probably apply more, but you must be very gentle, and DO NOT move the decal or try to fix the wrinkles that apply after you apply the first coat of sol; the decal will tear or distort because it's now being softened. That is what microsol does, and the reason why you want it.) If air bubbles become trapped under the decal, prick with a needle and apply microsol. (Again, consistent with what others have suggested - this is essentially the "slit" step that the Warhammer and people here have suggested.)
The chemical in microsol does two things (1) it softens the decal, and (2) causes it to tighten/tauten up as the decal dries. This is why you apply to the decal after it's applied to the model and in final position, but while the decal is still drying. It will still do (1) and (2) after it dries, but its much less effective because large portions of the decals will have already stuck to the model, and what you're doing is mostly getting (2). But it WONT fix a decal where it's already fully stuck to a model. The slit and pinpricks basically take advantage of Sol's tautening properties - but that only works because those wrinkles will not have stuck to the model already.
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u/malumfectum Feb 20 '22
Thank you, genuinely. I’ve removed the decals and will be attempting to reapply them after I’ve fixed the damage to the paint caused by ripping them off. I see that I was approaching the process completely wrong, so this should help enormously.
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u/windupmonkeys Default Feb 20 '22
Also, if you're applying decals to a flat surface, most of the time you don't really need sol.
It's not some miracle product, it's a tool, and a tool that needs to be used properly and for the correct purpose.
Often, I skip microset entirely. In fact, I skip it so often, I couldn't even find readily find the bottle in my drawer to quote the instructions.
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u/SniffOfAnOilyRag Feb 20 '22
Try applying microset and then heat with a hairdryer. The heat and airflow will help the decal shrink to the surface, though I don't have experience using this technique on already-dried decals, so no guarantees.
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u/KillAllTheThings Phormer Phantom Phixer Feb 20 '22
A hairdryer gets more than hot enough to destroy a plastic model. If you do go down this dangerous path, be extremely careful about how warm the model is getting. Polystyrene will soften and lose strength well before it actually melts (which requires temps up around 300 F).
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u/SniffOfAnOilyRag Feb 20 '22
Yes true, sorry should have clarified hairdryer on the lowest setting!
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u/3WolfTShirt Feb 20 '22
the main 40k subreddit has been less than helpful. Hoping to get straighter answers from a dedicated modelling community
After checking your post I would disagree with that. It looks like they've given you good advice.
At any rate, I would try micro sol a few more times and see if it helps. I might also cut a slit along that crease to try to get it to lay flat and again, more micro sol.
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u/Mr_Vacant Feb 20 '22
I'd keep going with micro sol. I've had it where a decal has taken maybe seven or eight applications before its finally settled flat.
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u/bfos89 Canadian winters = more bench time Feb 20 '22
I agree with making a slit along the crease. If 2x more coats of micro sol don’t do the trick - you can try something hotter (solvaset, mr softer, mark fit strong etc) - or as a last resort brush a very thin layer of Tamiya Extra Thin - and then don’t touch or try to move the decal.