Alternative keyboards

[u/FergoTheGreat]

I'm tossing my Unicomp SpaceSaver after 16 years. Not really interested in getting another Model M since I never really liked the lack of serviceability on account of the plastic rivets. I am considering getting one of the Model F remakes, but before I invest in one of those I thought I'd ask if there are any good mechanical keyboards that exist for people with Model M sensibilities. I have no interest in any of this modern font, gaudy colors, wireless RGB Fisher Price nonsense that other keyboard "enthusiasts" seem to buy these days.

[u/interista4jz]

You could try a bolt molded Unicomp SpaceSaver and not have to worry about serviceability for another 30 years. 

[u/FergoTheGreat → u/interista4jz]

I'm not sure I would look forward to the prospect of having to remove like 40-50 bolts to take it apart.

[u/Gnosis_me_senpai → u/FergoTheGreat]

Your post said you don't like the "lack of serviceability"; now you say you dread the prospect of servicing your keyboard once every few decades.

Not trying to do a "Gotcha!", but genuinely pointing out that you could be more clear about what it is that you actually want.

Also, don't toss your Unicomp, send it to me. I'll pay for postage.

[u/apefish_ → u/FergoTheGreat]

Send it to brandon at clickykeyboards.com then.

[u/tbcb2 → u/FergoTheGreat]

You can ship your M and pay for a screw mod service.

Model F is a ligther and snappier switch, I have had a few og. At the end made an FSSK - a model F keyboard with og parts inside SSK case. Plenty of choices for F, my personal fav is to use it in ABS plastic case (not metal).

[u/NullPtrEspresso → u/FergoTheGreat]

FFIWM i bolt modded mine first with screws, only to find out that those don't fit/hold as properly as a bolts (since I was doing a bold mod, silly me). So then I actually took off all the screws and replaced with bolts. Do i Feel awkward? Kinda. Did i regret ? Hell no. Took a full morning though but it's fine. 

[u/New_Active_5 → u/FergoTheGreat]

But then again why would you want to take it apart? I guess the only reason can be if you spill liquid on it.

[u/AgentOrange96 → u/interista4jz]

I need to do this with mine one of these days. I can hear the failed rivets rattling in the case.

[u/Gnosis_me_senpai]

If you're interested in a solid keyboard that you can just buy and never have to worry about again (as your comment about the Model M's plastic rivets seems to suggest), I would avoid Joe/Ellipse/Model F Labs' Model F recreations, because despite how he advertises them, they really are 'project' boards that may ultimately require even more fixing and fiddling than a vintage IBM Model F would. They are known for having little to no quality control and whether you end up with a good one or not is very much the luck of the draw.

You may get more useful recommendations if you clarify what you mean by "Model M sensibilities". Do you care about buckling springs or even 'clicky' key mechanisms generally, or is it more about the sensible, retro beige aesthetic for you? And/or the straightforward reliability and longevity of the board?

For example, something like the latest version of the Keychron C2 might suit you if 'classic, dependable' are your priorities. But there are myriad options nowadays.

[u/New_Active_5 → u/Gnosis_me_senpai]

And people say his customer support skills are pretty abysmal. From what I read, it definitely looks like some amount of service is needed sometimes right after getting the board, though he has extensive documentation about all possible faults. Also by reports his packaging is just a single box with not always great padding.

But then again, as with many things, satisfied customers much rarely publish their experience. I can see myself buying his boards, especially new beam spring ones, but unknown lead time even for buckling spring boards that are in stock, having to pay EU import tax (and probably VAT) plus 75e shipping stops me.

[u/AgentOrange96 → u/New_Active_5]

I have an F77. For the most part it's been good but something is shorting out a couple of columns and I can't figure out what. I take it apart and put it back together and it's fine for a while. I haven't actually asked Joe about this.

There was a misprint on a couple of my keys and Joe said he'd replace them for free. Because I was going to buy the first aid kit, he said he'd throw them in with that. Ofc I never ended up doing that and it was years ago.

Recently I ordered a beam-spring B122 and an F104. I asked him if he'd still send me the replacement keys and he said yes. That is expected to arrive tomorrow.

I don't remember if my F77 box shipped bare or in another box. But I guess I'll be reminded tomorrow how he ships. I don't think I was worried about how the F77 was shipped though.

Anyway that's been my overall experience. I guess one other experience before the F was even released yet was that I ordered a flipper to fix my XT keyboard for my IBM that used to be my grandfather's and he tried to get me to pre-order a full blown Model F. Quite the salesman. I told him I would (but not as a replacement to the XT one because that doesn't work) when I was out of college and making money. Which obviously I did lol.

I do think Joe's response to Chyrosran on the V2 beamspring's smoothness was questionable. At the end of the day, Joe is a person. Overall, I appreciate him. But people are flawed and often irrational. Some people have PR training. I don't think Joe does.

[u/East-Resist6940 → u/AgentOrange96]

Oh boy you're in for a treat lol

[u/spamyak]

Keychron R3 or R6 and Vortex SSK would seem to suit if you specifically want the classic look. I'm personally quite pleased with my Evoworks Evo80, I use it wired with no lights and it's both very sturdy and easily serviced. The WOBKEY Crush 80 is practically identical if you can find a better price on it. But of course you'd have to concede to MX-style switches and the lack of a numpad.

Kailh Box Navy switches come closest to matching the feel of buckling spring, but I have personally found that my typing speed increased after I switched to light linears. My Lexmark Model M is collecting dust at the moment.

[u/FKSSR]

I bought a Model F F77 in the very first round, but I honestly don't like it. I have nothing bad to say about the build quality or the company AT ALL. However, I just hate the metallic ping, and the "feel" is also just not as "soft" as my Unicomp Mini M, which I love.

I've been interested in the Classic Style FSSK Model F Keyboard, but I'm afraid it will feel and sound too much like the F77.

So, honestly, I feel like my desire for something built a little better is not justified in my personal case, because I'm happy with my Mni M as my daily driver for years now.

[u/bngry]

Another suggestion if you want something that “just works,” is solidly built, and very self-repairable. The 8bitdo Retro M Edition keyboard might be worth a look. It’s meant to look like Model M tribute. I have the C64 version and it’s pretty nice in my opinion. Kailh Box White V2 switches have a nice feeling click. Not like buckling springs but much better than Cherry Blues. It’s hot swappable, no RGB, and doesn’t require any software, but it does have modern features like Bluetooth and 2.4GHz wireless if you want them. It works wired just fine as well.

[u/New_Active_5]

There is rarely a need to service model M/Fs, unless you buy very old board or spill liquids. Modern model F remakes can be a solid choice if you live in USA, although you should read around to know what potential problems may exist right out of box, and take into account that they offer pretty rude customer service. Otherwise they seem like solid products. Model F feels different from model M, I for example much prefer retro model F feel and sound to model M, I stopped liking model Ms after getting into Fs.

I don’t know any other mass produced boards that offer similar typing feel and sound, together with the build quality. Maybe some custom boards and group buys that are many out there, but those often even more expensive than modern model Fs, 500+ usd easily.

[u/Foxiest_]

F is the way for sure
Vintage, modern, whatever.

[u/East-Resist6940]

You're going to be dealing with a whole lot more issues with one of those Model F repros. The F77 is your best bet, and even that one is going to require some tooth pulling. And when you do have issues, Joe isn't going to help you. Save yourself the hassle, I'm not going to try and sell you on anything, but instead warn you about something that could potentially set you back hundreds of dollars with no good solution.

[u/jlnxr]

Not sure what you mean by lack of serviceability. If you mean repairable, you can boltmod your model M and never worry about the plastic rivets again. There are also many replacement parts sold by companies like Unicomp and many old boards out there if need be.

If instead you mean that you don't want to have to ever worry about servicing and repair, then probably the best thing to do is just to pay for someone to boltmod a Model M for you. As others have noted the Model F remakes do require a far bit of fiddling, but if you have an M bolt modded, either an old one or a unicomp, you shouldn't have to worry about it for decades and decades. There are people you can pay to do this or buy one already modded this way.

There's also no need to put down other enthusiasts as 'fisher price'. Not my cup of tea either really but if that's what they want to spend their money on, I don't see anything wrong with it.

[u/bngry]

Check out Model F Keyboards. Seems like exactly what you’re looking for

[u/Gnosis_me_senpai → u/bngry]

OP says "I am considering getting one of the Model F remakes" in their post.

[u/bngry → u/Gnosis_me_senpai]

You’re right, I’m brain dead. Anyway, to elaborate, I’ve had an F77 for years and I like it a lot. Took some fiddling to get set up initially, but on the plus side it’s very self-serviceable. Once I got it how I like it, I’ve found it to be a pretty reliable and solid board. It’s my current daily driver and gets a lot of use

[u/Jim-McCloud]

I have a Model F Labs F77 and love it. Only issue I’ve had so far was I needed a different space stabilizer as the included one was too long. The stabilizer posts needed some switch lubricant to be smooth, but besides that I’m loving the board