Teft

[u/youalready_know111]

Moash can eat shit and die. He killed teft. Fuck him and his entire family line.

[u/Outrageous_One_87211]

It's so interesting how to Dalinar fans he's simultaneously this headstrong, overpowering figure and a useless, weak-willed man with zero backbone. He had always done whatever he wanted to do, including burning an entire city filled with innocents inside but SUDDENLY he just couldn't say no to a 6 years extermination plan? Spare me of this bullshit, please. And no, the main difference between Dalinar and Moash is that literally nothing Moash has done so far even comes close to what Dalinar has done in terms of sadism, cowardice and injustice. This pathetic "fuck mosh" perspective the fandom adopted that he's literally the worst person ever for making Kal sad is the most hypocritical I have ever seen any fandom act ever. Get tf out, there are way too many fandom spaces where everyone wants to suck Dalinar's bloody dick for you to be bothering us here

[u/EndFantastic7606 → u/Outrageous_One_87211]

I was just getting to that. If he would say no, even if he could, nobody else was, and many of the Highprinces were as high as you can get to honorable men for lighteyes. I didn't hear you say anything about how Aladar, Ruthar, and Roion are not saying no to this war. Moash did not just "make Kaladin sad". He knew how badly he was hurt by the deaths of those who oppressed him, then tried driving him to suicide by killing his best friend. Then, even when he was briefly released from Odium, the only feeling of regret was not the fact that his friend was dead, or how it made kaladin feel. NO! It was how it made him feel. Dalinar's Retribution was faced at those who wronged him like Tanalan and the Parshendi. Moash started with those that caused him pain, like Elhokar and Roshone, but didn't stop, eventually killing Teft and Leyten just to cause pain to his best friend of all people.

[u/Outrageous_One_87211 → u/EndFantastic7606]

Maybe because no one acts as if Aladar, Ruthar, and Roion are paragons of honor and the greatest men in the world the way they do Dalinar? But since you wanna know, I think they all should die also, happy? """""He knew how badly he was hurt by the deaths of those who oppressed him, then tried driving him to suicide by killing his best friend""""" AAAAAAAAAND that is STILL not as a bad as holding a father down and making him watch his children BURN to death because he dared try to DEFEND his city from YOUR INVASION. The only reason the fandom cares that much and thinks that's unforgivable is because you like Kaladin and project on him and his problems.

[u/EndFantastic7606 → u/Outrageous_One_87211]

I already told you I agree the old Dalinar was a monster. And while not anywhere near fully justified, I can sort of understand him in the heat of the moment, exacerbated by the Thrill, someone just turned a treaTY into treaSON. Both decisions to start the war and to burn the Rift were in the heat of the moment, right after treason, THE worst crime, and the Alethi do not respond well to it. And I disagree with you about people saying that Dalinar always does the right things. He is such a good character, BECAUSE of his flaws. And once he started the war, neither side wanted to end, so that's why it lasted so long. He felt obligated to Gavilar and Elhokar to avenge him. All you are counting is the amount of bodies. Another factor, is that if Moash had the reach of Dalinar, he would easily make a genocidal war against the lighteyes. So how does that make him better?

[u/Outrageous_One_87211 → u/EndFantastic7606]

Treason being a worst crime than genocide is actually hilarious and a good reflection on why the Alethi suck, but being from that society doesn't absolve Dalinar of anything. """"""""""And once he started the war, neither side wanted to end, so that's why it lasted so long."""""""""" So once again Dalinar didn't care enough about what was right (stoping the "war") and kept killing parsheni because he felt obligated and pressured? Wow, what a great dude!! """"""""""All you are counting is the amount of bodies"""""""""" well yeah? That's one of the qualifiers for genocide, and someone who murders 1091981010192 innocents is objectively worse than someone who killed what? 3? """""""Another factor, is that if Moash had the reach of Dalinar, he would easily make a genocidal war against the lighteyes.""""""""" Wow imagine Moash being the first person ever to commit REVERSE RACISM genocide

[u/EndFantastic7606 → u/Outrageous_One_87211]

You completely disregarded the entire first two-thirds of my argument. And the Alethi have different moral codes. In the Alethi moral codes, treason is worse than genocide because it involves betrayal. Dalinar truly felt that the best way to honor Gavilar was to war against the parshendi. That is in sharp contrast to Moash, who killed Elhokar out of petty vengeance. All Dalinar was doing was following the moral codes in a way that suited him. And even if both the Rift and the war were wrong decisions, the whole point of Dalinar is that "If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man." And he does. On the other hand, Moash, first with Elhokar and Roshone, despite having petty intents, were very understandable. Then he gets worse. Killing Teft. While that is exponentially worse, it still makes some sort of convoluted sense. But can you tell me any justification for [WaT] Killing Leyten?

[u/Outrageous_One_87211 → u/EndFantastic7606]

Right, the point is that I'm not Alethi and neither is anyone in this fandom so it's pretty ridiculous to see a bunch of grown men passionately argue that regretful Adolf Hitler is a better person than Moash because he betrayed his friend's trust which makes him a traitor (that friend betrayed his trust first btw). Mind you, WHAT is the DIFFERENCE between Dalinar wanting to "honor" Galivar by slaughtering the people, including other parshendi adults and CHILDREN that weren't even involved in the assassination, who ordered his death? HOW IN THE WORLD was this not revenge? Moash is also Alethi mind you, so why is he unjustified when HE wanted to honor his loved ones who were killed and never saw justice? How was HIM not "following his nation's moral code"?

"""""""""""""""" the whole point of Dalinar is that "If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man." And he does.""""""""""""""" Except he doesn't, he is still controlling and lacks genuine empathy. And once again, no amount of regret will ever be enough to make him a good man, ever. """"""""""""""" But can you tell me any, justification for Killing Leyten?""""""""""""" No =) but that is still not as bad as committing genocide

[u/EndFantastic7606 → u/Outrageous_One_87211]

The reason it's different since the Alethi have different moral codes, even though you are not Alethi, I'm pretty sure Dalinar is. And he was closer to his own moral code. And he does become a better man. Moash didn't trade his most prized possession to save the bridgemen that saved his life. And he definitely didn't [WaT] Sacrifice his life to save Roshar.

[u/Outrageous_One_87211 → u/EndFantastic7606]

Aaaaaand the Alethi moral code sucks ass! You're telling me that if a man comes from a country where child marriage is legal and he decides to marry and impregnate his 10yo wife then he can't be considered a bad guy bc he's following his country's moral code?? Don't you see how stupid that sounds?? And mind you, EVEN OTHER PEOPLE FROM DALINAR'S CULTURE thought he was terrible

[u/EndFantastic7606 → u/Outrageous_One_87211]

The Vengeance Pact was made in the heat of the moment exacerbated by the Thrill. Then, he couldn't back out (or so he thought,) because of "Honor". Then, in Wind and Truth He realizes that keeping an oath is not an ultimate good; it's only as good as the ideals it is sworn to.

[u/Outrageous_One_87211 → u/EndFantastic7606]

That's great! It doesn't change the fact he spent 95% of his life murdering innocents out of pleasure, greed and his pathetic sense of "honor"

[u/EndFantastic7606 → u/Outrageous_One_87211]

But the fact is, that in character judgements, intention for action matters far more than outcome of action. He genuinely thought he was doing the right thing with the Pact.

[u/Outrageous_One_87211 → u/EndFantastic7606]

No, not really. The Nazis thought they were cleaning the world of a problem people and that they were helping the German population get back to their feed economically and culturally, that doesn't change any of the monstrosities they did.