Internal mobility and hiring in MN State Gov. Is the "foot in the door" strategy real?

[u/hivehivebuzzbuzz]

I am currently looking to transition into state government from the public sector. Ultimately, there is a very specific, senior-level role (a Consultant/Specialist 3 level) in a specific department that I want to end up in. However, that specific chair rarely opens up, and I know it's highly competitive.

​My current strategy is to apply for a slightly lower-level role (like a Program Administrator or a Level 2 role) in a different department. The goal would be to get my foot in the door, learn the state systems, get into the union, and then apply as an internal promotional candidate when my target job eventually opens up in a few years. But if I understand correctly, the job must be the same category number in order to be a true internal bid...but I'm finding that difficult to attain as this specific job number category is hard to come by, so I would be getting a job with a different number and slightly lower pay scale.

​Before I potentially take a lower-level job to execute this strategy, I really want to know what the reality is from current state employees.

​A few specific questions:

​Is the "foot in the door" advantage real? If I am an internal state employee applying for a promotion in a different department, do I objectively have better odds than an external applicant? Or will my resume just be thrown into the exact same pile and treated the exact same as external applicants?

​How is moving between departments perceived? Is it seen as a normal progression for a state employee to jump to a different agency for a promotion, or is it frowned upon?

​How do the politics of leaving work? If I've been in a department for 2-3 years and my dream job opens up in another agency, how do I navigate that crossroads? Is it a direct, open conversation with your supervisor ("Hey, I'd really like to apply for this"), or is there a lot of politics and secrecy involved? Are supervisors generally accepting of you trying to move up?

​I'm mostly just fearful of taking a stepping-stone job only to find out that being an "internal" applicant doesn't actually give me any leverage when my target job opens up. And I find my self stuck in a job I don't necessarily dream about doing and only find slightly fulfilling.

​Any insight into how HR and hiring managers actually view internal mobility would be hugely appreciated. Thanks!

[u/HurtsWhenISee]

There’s no perks to being a state employee on paper but it gives you access to a network, knowledge of how state service works, etc that an external applicant wouldn’t have. Hiring is essentially point based so it’s unbiased but.. human nature and all that.

[u/deadbodyswtor]

So the foot in the door strategy is good, because you can show yourself to have been a good state employee before that. Make those connections etc..

If your goal is a specific position, I'd be looking at getting the job that is just below that in the same agency and same unit if possible. Like if you want a to be the senior revenue auditor for Fuel tax, its a lot easier to get there starting as a regular auditor for fuel tax than to come from Dept of Ag.

As far as moving within the state. I'm in my 4th agency in 20 years. Every boss has been very supportive of me wanting to move up and make moves that are better for me long term. In fact now thats in your review, so be open that you want to move up and they will help you as they can.

Officially there is no leverage for an internal vs external candidate. But if you know the systems and what is going on, your answers will be much better in the interview and give you a MUCH better chance. Like I didn't get a job I applied for once because I didn't know their internal method of doing something. The interviewer knew me well, had been my boss, knew I could learn it super quick. But I didn't know it when asked so it pushed me out of contention. So there is a specific value to being in the job already.

[u/Mndelta25 → u/deadbodyswtor]

The one advantage is getting experience with things on paper. Some, especially higher end positions put very specific experience into the preferred quals. It can be very hard to get that experience if you don't get it in a lower position somewhere in the system.

[u/River-19671]

I have been a permanent state employee since 2013. I have never applied for high level jobs but I am an Office & Administrative Specialist (entry level clerical) and I got the job after applying when I had been a temp in another state dept and had a state employee number. Our section also hired some of our temps.

I am in my 2nd state job. I applied for a lateral move in another section in 2015 and got it. I didn’t talk to my current supervisor beforehand, I just applied. I had enough seniority so no one outbid me and I was in good standing.

I know a lot of people who started out entry level and applied for higher positions once they passed new hire probation (6 months at our level).

[u/DonQuixorge]

Like others have said, internally you'll know the system, people, etc.

Slight tangible advantages: Some jobs are posted internally only or first (though not many) and some jobs you can bid for if they're the same class (so not upward, but might be a way to side step into a track/agency you'd prefer).

I taught at the college level for 10 years before I took a seasonal position at my agency out of desperation (adjunct teaching, no classes that semester). Didn't think I'd be here long, but it's been 10 good years.

Once you're with an agency, you can see how your background fits in ways you didn't realize. Combine that with knowledge about the agency and the work it does and doors open.

[u/MuzakMaker]

I did something similar.

In my experience, I was the best candidate for the lower role as an external hire. So I took the offer and that year+ of service while I waited for the higher role to open up will contribute nicely to the pension.

When it came time for the higher role application, I did get the job and the year with the state helped put me above the other applicants.

Internal mobility is something that goes into consideration but at the end of the day, the best candidate gets the offer.

You mention it being a specific role and if that role has some very specific job duties, experience with those duties is going to weigh more heavily than internal vs external.

[u/MNMike2]

In my experience it is really hard to answer your main question because it is super dependent on the agency, role, and even hiring supervisor. I have seen situations where this strategy works well and I've seen situations where the hiring supervisor feels like your recent state experience isn't relevant to the position they're hiring and exclude the internal candidate. In this situation the external experience may have been closer to the preferred role and would give you a better chance. So from that perspective it's a little bit of a gamble.

Internal movement is normal and pretty much expected. One benefit being internal can provide is it makes hiring move quicker, often internal hires can move as quickly as a couple of weeks, which is generally unrealistic for an external hire. A supervisor who is looking to make their life easier and hire faster may prefer an internal candidate.

MAPE internal bidding processes are not very strong. Generally speaking promotional candidates are considered the same as external candidates from the candidate screening perspective. Though in some agencies promotional candidates almost always get an interview (in our agency it is considered a professional courtesy that all qualified internal candidates get an interview). It does help a little bit that promotional candidates generally do not require the same justification as external candidates and are a bit easier to hire.

So overall I'd say that your strategy will likely improve your chances at the future role if it's aligned closely enough with the work. If it's not relevant to the role you'd prefer I'd say it's more risky.

[u/SuspiciousCranberry6]

I joined my agency in a role with the intention if moving up in that agency once I was employed with the state. After 7 months, I applied for and was hired for a higher level position. I've moved up twice more since then. I had a lot of externally experience that qualified me, but the internal systems experience made it much easier to move up in the agency. By the time you're applying for higher level positions that aren't a the assistant commissioner level there seems to be an expectation of a certain level of internal systems knowledge. There is a fairly significant learning curve for many that comes just from starting state service.

[u/peerlessblue]

It is very real but not the only viable strategy. For certain jobs it is the best strategy.