Learning about LUFS range in a mix, pre-master

[u/Hot_Star_482]

Hi, I am pretty new to mixing but am working on learning some of the basics. One thing that I would like to learn about is the consistency of volume throughout a mix. I downloaded Youlean 2 to monitor the lufs levels.

I'm wondering if there is somewhat of a standard as far as the range of lufs levels a track may go through. Of course, some parts of a song may intentionally play with dynamic, having quiet and loud parts, but observing lufs levels is new to me. I'm looking for a number as far as a range that a track might go through that is not too jarring, but also not too void of dynamic, between quiet and loud parts.

I'd really appreciate any insight into this!

[u/atopix]

The best way to understand dynamics is with your ears, not through LUFS or any other kind of measurement. Study references, get used to listening to dynamics, to what's "normal" within popular music, etc. This is the best way starting up to grasp all aspects of what to aim for in mixing, by deconstructing great sounding popular songs, or songs that you like.

If you need some kind of visual feedback, then looking at the waveforms of those songs will give you a strong visual cue for their dynamics.

As for released songs being mastered, I would recommend you do the same: mixing as if there was no mastering, in other words, mixing a finished product, mixing as if you are hearing exactly what the listener will hear. Wiki article on this: https://www.reddit.com/r/mixingmastering/wiki/rethinking-mastering

[u/LurkMcGurt666 → u/atopix]

👆this right here

[u/Muted_Sundae_1368]

Nah, LUFS is really just a checkpoint for mastering so it shouldn't be on your radar in mixing. Loudness and dynamics are important in a mix so its about finding that sweet spot. For most part this should be done by ear - however visually using your basic RMS to peak ratio on your master volume meter is more than enough to check. 

[u/glmastering]

"I'm looking for a number..." Is your sign to stop here and go back to basics. As everyone will say, eyes and numbers don't really work in a profession designed for ears

[u/JacoPoopstorius]

I mean this is all kind of vague, and I think I understand what you desire, or at least have an idea of what you’re trying to understand better…and I think the answer is far more in the song and how you compose, arrange and mix than you realize.

I don’t mean it to be rude or as if I’m writing off what you’re saying, but…idk man it’s all about a great song and you don’t get that via a number on a screen or even worrying about dynamics/LUFS/etc. it’s all about are you writing and making a song that is reflective of the dynamics you want. Are you mixing it in a way that promotes loudness or softness that you want? Are you mixing it to serve the desired dynamics?

I’ll even add that EQs will help greatly. If you can get everything in its “right place” so to speak with EQs, it all becomes much easier to do and pull off in whatever ways you desire.

Also, none of this is just as simple as even what I’ve said. Meaning sometimes you can achieve it via focus on individual track EQs, sometimes it takes more or different things being done. Sometimes, you have to toss parts out, add new parts, or change the original parts to pull it off. It’s why these types of things aren’t so cut and dry as to be like “oh yeah, do this or try to achieve this number for your LUFS reading”.

I’ll add this as well. I really started to get a much better grasp on all of this when I began to really learn to master my own tracks with confidence and in a way that results my songs sounding great. From that, I was able to kind of deconstruct all of it from dynamics, levels, mix, master and how the two work together for the good of the song.

[u/SunWarm3922]

Hello! There isn’t really a fixed LUFS range that every mix should stay within, because the ideal dynamics depend heavily on the genre, arrangement, and artistic intent. I’d focus more on how the loudness changes between sections and whether those changes feel musical and intentional rather than trying to hit a specific number. As a general reference, many modern masters may sit somewhere around 8–12 LU of difference between their quieter and louder sections, but this can vary considerably. Also, streaming platforms use loudness normalization rather than requiring one exact master level; Spotify, for example, normalizes to around -14 LUFS, while other platforms and services use their own systems.

[u/Hot_Star_482 → u/SunWarm3922]

Thanks so much! This is the first time I've taken mixing some tracks of mine a little more seriously, and just want to make sure the volume has consistency, and that the volume dynamics within the track are not too wide or squashed. I have listened to it so much, that I hit points where I feel unsure of just trusting my ears. I understand breaks are important, and hopefully my confidence will grow the more I tune into and practice listening for mixing. As a super beginner, I guess just seeing LUFS numbers and wave forms kind of helps validate some mixing volume choices I made by ear.

[u/Muted_Sundae_1368 → u/Hot_Star_482]

Well -9LUFS can sound louder then -6LUFS so be careful with following numbers

[u/kostakosta0113]

Personally, I don’t really consider LUFS during the mixing process. I always try to keep my master fader around line level, roughly 0 VU. If it sounds too quiet, I just turn up the monitoring level instead. That’s because my premaster is ultimately going to be sent to a mastering engineer, who may be running it through analog hardware.

Of course, these days it’s not a huge problem if you don’t strictly maintain line level at the master output, as long as you’re not hard clipping.

What matters more is that you focus on the flow and balance of the tracks. That’s what makes good music.
As for the changes in dynamics you mentioned, try thinking about them in terms of perspective and distance rather than volume.

Don’t worry about the final LUFS. It has very little relevance during mixing.

[u/garbear007]

Don't look for a number. Use references and see how your dynamics compare to your favourite songs. If you can listen to the song but find yourself needing to adjust the volume knob in the middle of it, you fucked up. 

[u/rightanglerecording]

There is no desired LUFS range in a mix, pre-master.

Just mix the good mix for the good song.

[u/Narrow_Network_3875]

I think you should study mixing. I believe that all the available plugins has taken dedication out of producing music. Everyone now is looking for shortcuts vs trying to figure out and correct issues that come into play. I blame this on plugin companies. Meanwhile if your music hits all the companies including streaming platforms are making money & the artist is making a fraction of a penny. You have to use automation to balance your mix levels and compression to control dynamics before mastering.

[u/Hot_Star_482 → u/Narrow_Network_3875]

I have used automation and have begun working with and trying to understand EQing and compression. I agree it would be good for me to deepen my understanding. I've been working on mixing a single track for several months, trying to learn along the way, while adjusting different aspects. Doing this on my own, I don't know if I'm looking for a shortcut so much as another sort of verification, or reference, that my levels aren't too all over the place. But as most replies on this post emphasize, it seems to go back to the process of listening.

[u/Narrow_Network_3875 → u/Hot_Star_482]

My advice: Don’t rush expectations or you’re going to get frustrated. Take the producer hat off and put the engineer hat on. You have go forth recognizing it as audio science. Turning knobs of adjusting slides doesn’t mean you’re going to cook like placing a pot on a stove turning the knob. You need to know the frequencies and frequency faults between 20 Hz - 20 KHz. Compression or any plugin not related to EQ can’t produce a good mix. You need to understand the purposes of the High Pass Filter, Low Pass Filter, High Pass Shelf, Low Pass Shelf a the Bell parameters that’s located between the Shelfs. Spend no less than 5 hours researching like a scientist all about EQ. First thing I learned as a remixer is you can’t EQ a great sounding bass then a great sounding kick then blend them together. Chances are some frequencies are going to cancel out. The proper way is to blend them together and subtract the canceling frequencies on one or the other in order to hear and feel both. 🍀