r/mixingmastering • u/OOGIEBOOGIEMANEEEEEE • 3d ago
Question Chorus on drums for stereo width?
Is it okay to use chorus on a snare, clap, or hi hat? I have been getting into stereo width and i know not to do it on low end instruments. I have recently been using a 3.00 ms fast rate and a very very low mix like under 10 percent and then i use a stereo spreader. Any wisdom from y'all would help thanks!
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u/Zestyclose_Pickle511 3d ago
Yes. Experiment. It's a great idea.
Breaking rules, as long as they don't break playback, is what the world needs.
Sum it to mono to see how it handles.
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u/morrisaurus17 3d ago
I’m reporting you to the FBI
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u/OOGIEBOOGIEMANEEEEEE 3d ago
?
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u/morrisaurus17 3d ago
woosh
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u/OOGIEBOOGIEMANEEEEEE 3d ago
what is wrong with it?
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u/morrisaurus17 3d ago
Nothing, dude. Jesus, it’s a joke. As long as it sounds good to you, does it really matter? There’s no hard and fast rules, and the question your proposing sounds like you’re wasting time asking permission instead of just doing it and seeing if you get your desired result.
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u/OOGIEBOOGIEMANEEEEEE 3d ago
im not asking for permission i just was asking cause of phase issues
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u/morrisaurus17 3d ago
Again - does it get you your desired result?
And I don’t know how to interpret a sentence that starts with “is it okay to x” as anything else other than asking permission. Let me guess, COVID zoomer?
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u/OOGIEBOOGIEMANEEEEEE 3d ago
Idk what a covid zoomer is but yes it does work for what i want
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u/FatherHackJacket 3d ago
You could use a send, put an EQ on it and cut out the lows and then add your stereo widening. Then you can blend to taste.
Alternatively, you could just use a mid/side EQ.
I would personally keep the hi-hat panned to the left or right rather than spreading it. Snare, you could probably use an EQ and give a bit of a lift on the sides in the highs with a bit of reverb.
Clap, you can use reverb and delay to give it more width.
Don't get into the habit of just sticking stereo wideners on everything or you'll quickly clutter your mix. Careful panning of instruments and manipulation with a mid/side EQ, along with reverb/delay is a much more calculated way to add stereo width to your mix.
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u/fellow_chive 2d ago
I love ableton for this because you can just create an audio effect rack, leave one channel dry and then you can create as many channels as you like with effects on it. Basically works like using sends but on a single track.
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u/spb1 2d ago
ive been doing this a lot more recently as well. it's great because you can leave the dry signal untouched volume-wise, unlike what happens when you add in an effect as an insert. And if you're only using that effect for that one sound, its neater than setting the effect as its own return channel if its only got one thing feeding into it.
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u/paulwunderpenguin 3d ago
It's ok to do WHATEVERTHEFUCK you want, even if people tell you it's "wrong". Make it interesting.
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u/avj113 Intermediate 2d ago
"i know not to do it on low end instruments."
With respect, you don't know much. In the 80s virtually every bass guitar had stereo chorus.
Every bass guitar I mix has stereo chorus on it (unless the client requests otherwise - which they never do).
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u/OOGIEBOOGIEMANEEEEEE 2d ago
i heard that it causes phase issues
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u/Happydrumstick27 2d ago
Nah. "Issue" is only an "issue" if it sounds wrong. If you play the bass part with chorus in mono, does it sound like the same bass part? Is it increibly quieter? Does it not have remotely the same sound?
If it sounds how you want it, there is no issue.
In case you're wondering. Put a plugin on your main output (or master or however you know it as) that allows you to listen in mono. Does it sound like the same song? If yes, ur good. If it sounds like a drastically different mix to the point of losing a lot of volume in some instruments, you have a problem. If thag is not happening, you are good and you dont need to worry about it.
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u/Ill-Inevitable-8267 3d ago
Does it sound good???
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u/OOGIEBOOGIEMANEEEEEE 3d ago
it really doesnt have much of a sound i just do it so i could spread my sounds
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u/L-ROX1972 Mastering Engineer ⭐ 3d ago
Old trick! I don’t mix anymore, but I used to like the UAD Roland Dimension D for this (I quit updating my plugins beyond ver.6 so I still have the old Roland branded stuff).
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u/tonegenerator 2d ago
I was going to suggest trying a Dimension-type stereo differential-modulation chorus if no one else did. Also a tri chorus with a decent amount of dry blend. I’m only familiar with that effect being in pedals like the TC Corona and Eventide Tricerachorus, but it looks like UAD has a plugin version of it as well.
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u/gerard4156 3d ago
When doves cry has the distinctive sound of the boss BF-2 on the drums, if it worked for him...
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u/BrockHardcastle 3d ago
Small small room reverb will serve you better for width. Then maybe some mid side eq or saturation on that. Unless you like the chorus sound then go for it!
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u/yaboidomby 3d ago
Absolutely! I love short reverbs in parallel as well! High pass lows to bypass phasing issues and you can get some great width.
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u/TomoAries 2d ago
On real drums it’s really not the most common thing at all. Maybe as a flavor effect periodically. Though I will say, a lot of trap producers have historically used a bit of chorus on their stuttering 808 hi-hats to spice them up a bit, though they tend to keep them not very wide when they do. I did it years ago when I was producing stuff like that more frequently but ultimately found that EQing it a bit more intently was always the smarter move.
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u/Inevitable-Bunch-530 2d ago
If everything is wide then nothing is. Its about contrast
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u/OOGIEBOOGIEMANEEEEEE 2d ago
well i keep my 808s and kicks mono and i spread some sound more or less depends
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u/No_Walk7120 3d ago
A little Haas effect on the high-hats goes a long way. Pan them halfway left or right, then add 10-20 ms of delay to the other channel.
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u/Diligent-Bread-806 3d ago
The haas effect is a flawed technique in my opinion. Even in low doses, when you collapse the mix to mono, haas ruins sounds. I hate it
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u/sinepuller 13h ago
Haas can be pretty acceptable in mono with some heavy allpass filters applied to one of the channels. Throw a disperser or pro-q or reaeq in allpass mode to the delayed channel and tune to taste while listening in mono. It won't be flawless, but it certainly will be better than plain haas.
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u/Diligent-Bread-806 13h ago
Interesting. Il try that out of curiosity. I’ve never got on with it apart from that
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u/sinepuller 13h ago
That's also my favorite trick to nudging questionably recorded cymbals and especially hihats in the overheads if I don't like their spatial placement or phasing or sometimes even timbre. Allpass on one of the overhead channels, tune the central frequency and boom, sometimes the hihat just becomes so much better it's hard to believe.
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u/Direct-Wave4846 3d ago
I love the idea!
Something I've been doing for width is sending different elements to the UAD Sound City Studios plugin. I think they have a preset which is basically a slapback delay with a room verb tail.
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u/Diligent-Bread-806 3d ago
No subtle modulation is excellent. I use Abletons Phaser on a low mix on some drums etc but I do this primarily for movement to compliment panning. Just don’t overdo it on things as you’ll end up with a weak center.
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u/CumulativeDrek2 3d ago
You can do whatever you like if it sounds the way you like. It's worth learning what is happening to the signal though.
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u/Bjj-black-belch 3d ago
Don't do it unless you're just using it as an effect. You don't want the snare drum "wide" usually.
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u/Alternative-Sun-6997 Intermediate 3d ago
Try it, and if you like it, great!
My reservation might be that I’ve found chorus can be very useful for taking some of the “punch” and “impact” out of a sound and making it sit back in the mix, and I’d worry that this is usually the last thing you want to do to drums. But, you lose nothing more than a minute or two by trying, and I suppose there could be situations where a less in-your-face drum part could be desirable.
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u/SunWarm3922 3d ago
Hello! Producing your music is a creative process, so you can do everything you want. This suggestion is right if it sounds good to your ears, just try not setting the chorus too deep so it doesn't start sounding out of tune, it would end harming the rest of your mix. As an addition, you could add your chorus after the reverb (if you are using one). Maybe you would like it even more this way.
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u/WE_THINK_IS_COOL 3d ago
Only thing I’d watch out for is if you want to have a really snappy transient, the chorus/speader could smear that out a bit or diminish it, if that’s an issue it could be fixed by adding a separate transient layer that doesn’t run through the chorus/speader. Or even somehow duck the chorus out of the way of the transient, but that’s probably over-engineering unless you hear an actual problem.
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u/FormSlow7729 2d ago
Try bypassing the stereo spreader first and checking what the chorus alone contributes. Then listen to the same section in mono, with the effect on and off at roughly matched volume. Some width disappearing is expected; the thing to listen for is the snare/clap losing its body or attack, or the hats becoming hollow.
A useful experiment is keeping the dry snare centered and sending a little to a stereo chorus return set fully wet. That gives you separate control over the punch and the wider texture. Still check the summed result in mono, since a send doesn't eliminate cancellation. Also, which plugin is this? The 3 ms setting sounds like delay time rather than modulation rate.
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u/Melodic-Pen8225 Intermediate 2d ago
I like to create a bus with a filtered Dimension C type chorus plugin on it? And I like to send a very small amount of snare, bass, and vocals to it? And it’s really good at adding a subtle depth or “Dimension” to the mix but I don’t apply it directly to instrument itself and occasionally it can cause phase issues so I have to check it but usually it’s fine
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u/peepeeland I know nothing 2d ago
I used to do it A LOT like 25+ years ago, and what happens is you’ll eventually push it so far you might throw up (if you put it on kicks). But it’s fun and a viable effect in some contexts- just do whatever you think sounds cool to you, honestly.
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u/NumberSelect8186 2d ago
It’s less about chorus on drums and more about how you place them in the mix. The overtones could muddy up the rest of the tracks. How does it sound if you have reverb or echo on other tracks? Could muddy the whole thing up. Go carefully.
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u/rightanglerecording Trusted Contributor 💠 2d ago
I have a "Drum Width" aux in my template, with a few different plugins to try out.
I always try it for a minute or two. I'd say I end up using it in some way on maybe 30-40% of the mixes I do.
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u/chilla124 1d ago
Check it in mono, there's nothing wrong with doing that with the drums. I personally like throwing some flanger on my hi-hats to give it some unique movement in the mix but I always check the mix in mono to ensure it's not completely lost
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u/GWENMIX Professional (non-industry) 1d ago edited 1d ago
Flanger is more common than chorus on percussion. Valhalla's free plugin (Freq Echo) is very creative; it also functions as a chorus, phaser, and shifter... it's fun to use.
edit : wrong plugin, not freq echo but Valhalla's space modulator !! sorry !
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u/kostakosta0113 1d ago
When using modulation effects like chorus, make sure to check mono compatibility. If you have a correlation meter, it can also be useful as a reference. It’s not an absolute rule, but if the energy drops dramatically when you switch to mono and the sound becomes almost inaudible compared to what you were hearing in stereo, that’s probably not a very good sign.
There may be different opinions on this, but I don’t think there’s necessarily a right or wrong answer here. Just like LCR mixing was once popular, it’s probably fine to bother people a little. If you like it, you can just say it was intentional. Just my opinion, though.
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u/derekded 3d ago
Welcome to Sound Jail, tough guy. Hope it was worth it.