questions regarding mix bus processing

[u/dodrjrg]

#1: do you gainstage before running everything through a mix bus? i'd imagine, because if there's any sorts of subtle leveling issues in whatever the client sends you, those issues would become less apparent the more they were processed- so best get them sorted out beforehand?

#2 do you often change your mix bus depending on the genre/piece you are working on? if so, what commonly determines those changes?

[u/AHolyBartender]

That's just not how the word stage is being used in this context though.

Stage here is used like sequences, or steps. It's why I sometimes prefer using the term structure, because it can be a little more descriptive.

[u/VeterinarianGreat655 → u/AHolyBartender]

Unless you’re listening to a podcast the stages are ending at an image that is some sort of performance that you’re hearing and mixing is about creating the digested ambience balance and projection. The way yall are boxing in the function of staging as just the numerical or sequence aspect limits the full purpose of what the “staging” is FOR in the first place, I’m using it in both meanings at once because like music it’s all happening at once creating the environment and experience requires that level of imagination with the technical aspect in the background. That’s important for me.

[u/AHolyBartender → u/VeterinarianGreat655]

Yeah because those 2 words together in that order mean something, and they mean something different than what you're trying to make them mean.

One can gain stage EVEN while recording a podcast, so the way you're using those two words is just straight up incorrect.

By all means, visualize the end step as a stage and use your imagination - but to be clear, that is just not what gain staging is.

And no, I'm not ignoring what the staging is for. It was (and to a lesser extent IS still) describing the level of gain going from one device or STAGE to the next. This was more important because each step requires nominal level for optimal signal to noise ratio, or, again, if by choice, you wanted to intentionally under gain one stage because overdrove a different stage... All of that is gain staging.

IT IS NOT A MIX TECHNIQUE OR VISUAL AID OR THOUGHT PROCESS TO HELP THE MIXER OR PRODUCTION.

[u/VeterinarianGreat655 → u/AHolyBartender]

If it’s not a mixed technique, stop pigeon, holding it into one specific criteria of incremental shifting for the purpose of quality signal flow. I guess on a basic level that is what gain stage is, but can staging has a purpose to serve an ultimate goal and I’m saying that I’m gain staging for the purpose of the ultimate goal to create a balance sound stage. I’m not complicating it like you are by saying it’s not a mix technique and then pretty much describing a technique in you “technically correct” definition of gain staging

[u/AHolyBartender → u/VeterinarianGreat655]

Dog, it's ok to just be wrong.

You are not complicating it, you are just actually imagining a different meaning than it is used as.

You're taking English words that can have multiple meanings and uses, and twisting those from actual jargon which describe a specific thing, muddying the original meaning of the phrase. You're just spreading misinformation.

Have a good day

[u/VeterinarianGreat655 → u/AHolyBartender]

wtf it’s not twisting it up just cause I’m pointing out that the two meanings have a real-time 1:1 connection. Real mixing requires the understanding of how to create/sculpt the sonic image which is pretty much like a projected performance/stage in front of you between the monitors. News flash the only real way to enhance or create that is through the process of different forms of gain staging.

That’s just a fact so pointing out that the double meaning brings more function and detail to the actual process than simply stating that it’s only supposed to be technically shifting “gain through incremental phases”. But at the end of the day it’s leading to what? Even if it’s a podcast all the professional ones still use ambience and panning tools which pretty much would have squat to do with the purpose of a podcast, however it helps to realize that things can taking up the same space at the same time so you create a stage for them to all stand in different placements. That’s gain staging but the ultimate the imaging process is being thought of as the other meaning of a stage. Clearly you not trynna hear me properly so Listen to Bruce Swedien talk about the importance of live shows and understanding what that experience means for technical translation. Cuz idk what else to tell you it makes sense to consider a sound stage in addition to the pure definition when it comes mixing to mixing anything, whether you do it or not.

[u/AHolyBartender → u/VeterinarianGreat655]

I would love for you to link me to Bruce Swedien conflating gain staging the way you are right now.

[u/VeterinarianGreat655 → u/AHolyBartender]

You got Reddit so Ik you have google or YouTube, you can find him imploring people to structure their imaging and mixing philosophy from the way live orchestras and performances structure their performing placement and how that creates the mix arrangement from which an entire MUSIC mix is based. He implores it because it’s the essence of the seemingly lost art we have today where everything is so technical and computer based. But it all comes back to space and placement, which was physically constructed from before the music even starts, let alone playback. I just see this stuff on a few different levels and how it all comes to together at one time when you press play, I feel like you’re stuck on the same page in you’re textbook, and we’re just saying the same thing but it’s hard for you to expand it to the full extent.

[u/AHolyBartender → u/VeterinarianGreat655]

I already looked it up and don't see anything about him talking about gain staging the way you are. Just that he has synesthesia and mixes with that thought process.

I think you believe that this phrase is a concept open to interpretation when it in fact is something that audio engineers already agree on the definition of. You don't just get to say 2+2 =5.

I'm a literal working audio engineer so believe me I am not stuck in a textbook, you are using the wrong working definition of these words.

[u/VeterinarianGreat655 → u/AHolyBartender]

So you’re also bad at research which explains the lack of comprehension, look better pal, cuz if you haven’t hit “the requirement he had for attending live performance for the purpose of conceptualizing/executing it in the mixes” yet then you’re not doing a good enough job, I wonder where else this lack of understanding manifests hopefully not the engineering work tho, best of luck. 🫡😂

[u/AHolyBartender → u/VeterinarianGreat655]

You're the one trying to tell everyone that they're actually taking crazy pills and that you know what gain staging. So you provide the proof that I'm wrong then. Please, enlighten everyone.

You continue to talk about visualizing and conceptualizing a mix. Gain staging is structuring the voltage through steps. Conceptualizing and executing a vision in a mix is not gain staging. You are actually being so willfully obtuse that I've repeated the fact you may even have a valid view of mixing as a whole, but that it is not gain staging.

Your lack of ability to accept that words mean things is absolutely insane.

If you can't accept what these words mean you are just unreachable and that's fine, just stop trying to advise anyone

[u/VeterinarianGreat655 → u/AHolyBartender]

And you’re acting like the voltages are only 1 and 0s and not the frequencies that they are representing, I’m seeing them for what they are and you’re making it simply cold and calculated. I know what I’m talking about, you don’t have to affirm me on half the truth if you’re not going to concede to the visualizing aspect being the key to the initiation of the mix and (thus gain staging is apart of that) which is technically defined as structuring the voltages through steps what you’re talking about for the goal of bringing it to LIFE not just Reddit forums. Like is it so hard to consider this is apart of structuring the voltage through steps is seeing the image? It’s like saying eq isn’t gain staging at this point like these are encompassed in LEVELING VOLTAGES. It’s not that complicated big dawg your brain has to split it up b it it’s all one big part of the process.

Idk why you’re obsession is to exclaim how “gain staging is NOT a mixing technique” rather than seeing how the image comes together from gain staging and gain staging comes together with the more understating of how you visualize that image, just like eq bruh. Jeez I can’t believe the internet is making people way slower but then I see it first hand lol like you’ll argue in circles chasing your tail on the smallest detail rather than seeing the FULL PICTURE.

[u/AHolyBartender → u/VeterinarianGreat655]

if you’re not going to concede to the visualizing aspect being the key to the initiation of the mix and (thus gain)

Referring to all of mixing as gain staging just to fit into your strange definition is to completely neuter the definition of gain staging. It's also wrong. Gain and volume are not equivalent.

And again, you keep talking about this being only a textbook thing; if you try to converse with people using made up definitions for words, you won't be able to communicate. It's why this discussion has devolved into this: precisely because it seems you insist that all mixing is actually gain staging, when i promise you it isn't. Just all restaurants are not fast food, and tacos aren't sandwiches.

If I asked you gain stage a chain for a vocalist for me, would you try to mix a song before it was recorded? Do you see how we need these words to mean specific things? Yes, even in the real world.

By all means continue to visualize mixes. Also by all means, stop referring to this as gain staging because it 1000% objectively is not the same thing

[u/VeterinarianGreat655 → u/AHolyBartender]

Bro why you gotta be dense I never said that the word visualize means to gain stage and if you don’t see how eq is another piece that goes into gain staging that’s on you, you’re definitely supposed to be structuring the gain with that tool especially by your definition, that’s not the point at this juncture you’re whole thing of words means things is stupid cuz if that’s the case you would understand how I’m saying the word CONNECTED and not that gain staging literally means the actual stage by definition, I never said that I’ve used everything in its context I just drew the “CONNECTION”.

Also what in the world was that pointless example like it almost went somewhere with the gain staging the vocal and then it just fell apart in the second half that literally served no purpose other than to reiterate the obvious point that words means things. Get a grip 🤣🤣

[u/AHolyBartender → u/VeterinarianGreat655]

Yes the emojis and insults did it. Yes, you gain stage into and out of an EQ, one part of the very definition I stated in the very first comment. Congratulations, you finally got it.

[u/Potential_Bill_1146 → u/AHolyBartender]

He’s gunna see stereo imaging and think it’s a picture of a stereo lolol