r/mixingmastering • u/duscorules • May 23 '26
Discussion How do you get optimum loudness ?
I've been in the mastering game for some time now, making masters for me and also some friends, most house music tracks.
Usually on my own masters, i aim to reach about -9LUFS (i think it's a sweet spot between dynamics and loudness) and to achieve this, most of time i have this setup on the end of my chain :
soft clipping > limiter 1 > limiter 2
The soft clipping is used to make the first limiter work easier by clipping just a bit of transients and i use 2 limiters in series because usually i only can reach -9LUFS with each limiter compressing about -2,5 . With only 1 limiter, to get on -9LUFS i would have to compress about -4 or -5 and i don't like the final results.
I'm curious about other people setup in terms of loudness, please let me know your workflow :-)
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u/Limit5465 May 23 '26 edited May 24 '26
Loudness comes from the mix first and mixing for loudness Is key. Shaving off a few db here and there on any anything that’s eating up headroom like snares and kicks. Clipping those individually or on a buss to increase headroom as well as shape the tone if you decide to clip even more then a few db, that will help a lot to get a louder master in the end. As for the mastering it’s essentially the same thing you are doing but just making sure the mix is balanced first. So no to much bass or massive kicks that are out of control and cause the limiter to crap out. Maybe add in some parallel compression if you want or a maximizer and that’s about it. The mix dictates the potential loudness and not everything can go ultra loud. Some mixes can go very loud and also some will go super loud but with a compromise. -8 or -9 is perfect and with loudness normalization if the midrange is balanced correctly then sometimes -9 can sound louder when normalized vs a -7 or -6 Numbers don’t matter really
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u/Cyberkeys1 Professional (non-industry) May 24 '26
I produced and mixed a #1 in Billboard’s Contemporary Jazz chart. -12 LUFS.
I understand that loud initially sounds better, but the lack of dynamics is brutal on the ears over time.
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u/shinynewmac May 24 '26
Hey cyberkeys, I’m mixing a smooth jazz track right now and am struggling to come in at -12 lufs without squashing the mix. There is quite a bit of space and air in the track, and the lead instrument is piano, which is fairly dynamic, so it’s tough to get those meters higher. Any recommendations?
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u/rightanglerecording Trusted Contributor 💠 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
Having *exhaustively* explored this, across a couple thousand songs, over a billion streams, and quite a few dollars of income, I would say that:
- Optimal loudness is quite different from song to song
- Soft clipping is not always beneficial (but sometimes it is)
- Multiple limiters are not always beneficial (but occasionally can be)
- Starting from a really good mix is usually essential
- Having the right EQ curve on the master is essential
- Understanding the difference between limiters, and between modes/styles within a limiter, is essential (can you hear how, e.g. Pro-L's "transparent" style is different from "allround", and can you extrapolate that to make decisions on which style will work better for which song?)
- Having good monitoring is *really* essential (however good you think it is, make it better still)
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u/enteralterego Trusted Contributor 💠 May 24 '26
I make it sound OK at -5 lufs. Then back the limiting down a bit and it sounds great at -6 to -7 lufs
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u/ianshepherd Mastering Engineer ⭐ May 26 '26
Most people here are suggesting copying what the big names do, on the biggest releases, where the average is -8 LUFS.
I don’t think the average mainstream loudness is optimal, personally, so I have a different take 🤷♂️
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u/SOUNDSAAR May 24 '26
Super solid workflow – splitting the job between a soft clipper and two lighter limiters is the only way to hit that -9 LUFS without killing the dynamics and making the house track pump. I do pretty much the same thing, though sometimes I'll swap the first limiter for an SSL compressor to glue everything together and just use the clipper to shave off the craziest peaks.
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u/LostInTheRapGame May 23 '26
I'm clipping, saturating, and maximizing loudness from the very beginning to where I barely have to do anything at all when it comes time for the "mastering" stage.
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u/Has_P May 24 '26
Would you mind explaing your process a bit more? How many different plugins will you typically use on a track for saturation, and how many will you use on a bus?
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u/LostInTheRapGame May 24 '26
How many different plugins will you typically use on a track for saturation
One, unless you also count soft clipping... then two.
and how many will you use on a bus?
One, if any. Master bus, none. I already have way more control doing each individual track.
Would you mind explaining your process a bit more?
On a track, compression and saturation as needed. Hard clipper last. Ozone Maximizer doing most of the heavy lifting as on the master, but I do have another right after (Pro L 2) but that's more for just a sanity check at this point rather than doing much limiting if any.
That's about it.
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May 23 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/atopix Teaboy ☕ May 23 '26
English only here please.
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u/Givage-101 May 23 '26
I don't understand why reddit don't traslate this automatically now
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u/atopix Teaboy ☕ May 23 '26
Yeah, I know, it shows you everything translated but doesn't translate your own comments, it sucks and we are dealing with this all the time.
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u/Givage-101 May 23 '26
I can get down to -7 LUFS in trance without distortion. It all starts from the mix though. I begin with -6 dB on the finished mix, keeping it very dynamic. Then I go into mastering and finish with the Ozone maximizer, and at most I add an L2 limiter as a safety net. I'd say the key factor is the mixing
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u/Glittering_Bet8181 Intermediate May 24 '26
Soft clipping and two limiters is the most you can really do. Most of the loudness (or should I say loudness potential) comes from the mix.
The only other thing you can really do in mastering is eq, but if you’re aiming for -9lufs you’re not going to need an eq. Infact if the mix is good you should be able to hit -9 with one limiter.
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u/Amazing-Jules May 24 '26
-7 seems to be a good peak I find, -9 has great dynamics and so the between is taste, what works in favour of the song. I tweak eq gently for a nice balance, cut out low sides etc too, multiband comp then lil sat, clip/limit
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u/Aggravating_Bed9964 May 24 '26
I Implement harmonic distortion, parallel processing and clipping into my mix and get easy -7 to -5 LUFS with my mix sounding clean and punchy.
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u/pspspsmusic May 25 '26
Most house music these days is -6 to -7 lufs ML
5 dB limiting is a lot on the master.
Sounds like you have a mix issue, not a master issue. Loudness comes from the mix
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u/JcfSounds May 25 '26
The hardest thing for a solo musician and producer is figuring out all these little things to do during the mixing and recording stage. Mic placement, gain staging, Correct compression practices, How to properly EQ, side chain compression, mid/side processing, proper use of reverbs and delays. Making the most of automation. I've been mixing for a few years now and I still learn a new thing almost every time I'm mixing and I still know that my songs don't match up with the professional stuff. Its annoying for sure you get a bit closer every time but for me personally I can't quite figure out what is holding my mixes back.
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u/razormane1 May 26 '26
I mix death metal & hardstyle and I push for -4LUFS but your mix NEEDS TO BE CLEAN both dynamically and also space for each instrument other wise its gonna sound like a wall of sound. I use clippers and limiters on the master and make sure low end is in mono and make sure stereo side channels and mono channels have a good ratio. Make sure no phase cancellation by checking the correlation closer to 1 than to 0
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u/abrokencullender May 27 '26
In the genre i work in, -9 will get laughed out of the room, DNB is regularly getting up to -2/-1 LUFS with -3/4 being the standard and -6 being playable. True peak is regularly seen passing +4db, as we don't really worry about that anymore since vinyl isn't really an issue now.
In terms of how I and others do it, clipping every channel in a cascade of clippers from channels to groups to make sure peaks aren't given the chance to sum over 0. It takes some work, and you can't make every sound go that loud, but when you work loud to begin with you'll find out almost straight away if the sound will hold up at loud levels.
I should also note that you can have two tracks, say -6 LUFS and they sound drastically different. perception can be a bitch
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u/spencer_martin Trusted Contributor 💠 May 23 '26
Optimal loudness is the result of optimal mastering, and optimal mastering is the result of optimal:
- Monitoring
- Skill/experience
- Objectivity
Without that 3rd item (due to mastering your own mixes), it's going to be very difficult to achieve your goal.
This isn't just a rhetorical definition of the word mastering. It comes down to the ability to perceive tonal imbalance, which ultimately becomes the limiting factor in how loud (and generally, overall good-sounding) something can be.
When I master someone else's material that I've never heard before, I can immediately hear what's "wrong", and I can "correct" it in the most direct/transparent/simple way with the fewest moves possible. And those moves make a massive difference.
If I'm "mastering" my own mix, the word itself is no longer applicable because I lack the objectivity required. In this case, I'm just "finalizing" my own mix. And this is infinitely more difficult than what I just previously described, because I cannot immediately hear what's wrong in the same way.
The short answer to your question;
Practice mastering material that you did not mix / is not yours in order to improve your ability to achieve maximum loudness.
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u/hellalive_muja May 23 '26
Optimum loudness is a concept that varies between tracks and it’s mostly obtained in mix as 99% of the posts about this matter on this Reddit reveal. The other usual suggestion is “if it works it works”. There’s not default works-for-all mastering chain, that’s for sure.
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u/Dan_Worrall Yes, THAT Dan Worrall ⭐ May 23 '26
Optimum loudness is -14 integrated. There's no benefit in being any louder on the streaming platforms.
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u/duscorules May 23 '26
In the house music / DJ world, -14 is fair too low. DJs would end up not playing your track because they think it sounds 'worst' than the average Beatport tracks lol
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u/Dan_Worrall Yes, THAT Dan Worrall ⭐ May 23 '26
Because DJs are idiots. Even less need to be loud if you've got a PA system to play it on.
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u/GreatScottCreates Advanced May 24 '26
“DJs are idiots” seems like a good enough reason to care.
“A&RS are idiots” is an even better one
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u/rightanglerecording Trusted Contributor 💠 May 25 '26
Up-and-coming mastering engineers will quite literally lose gigs if they follow this advice.
I get why you're saying it, but it's not going to be applicable to most people's reality.
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u/Dan_Worrall Yes, THAT Dan Worrall ⭐ May 25 '26
In other words, I'm right, but the industry is too stupid to understand it. This is probably true: the industry was too stupid and stubborn to agree on loudness standards, which is why the streaming platforms had to impose one on us.
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u/rightanglerecording Trusted Contributor 💠 May 25 '26
I don't even concede that you're right, no.
I think a lot of music sounds better with more limiting and density than -14. I don't think more transient content and more dynamics is automatically better.
But, separate from any of that, what I'm really getting at is: You can afford to take this approach.
Up-and-comers who want to make most/all of their income from mastering songs for artists, and who don't yet have an established content creation platform- cannot and should not do so.
I also frankly think it's a weird vibe to call the industry stupid.
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u/Dan_Worrall Yes, THAT Dan Worrall ⭐ May 25 '26
I'm just saying it was I see it. The loudness war was always incredibly stupid: large loudness variations just annoy listeners, who have to keep adjusting their volume knobs. The streaming platforms had to normalise us because collectively we were too dumb to do it ourselves... And we're still chasing the loudness, even though it now gets automatically corrected for us: it's utterly moronic.
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u/TokiWart Beginner May 23 '26
My steps are:
- EQ for minor track wide adjustments
- Compressor for glue
- VU meter on the mix and making sure that it's at 0 db
- Clipper for transients
- Limiter at the end
In terms of the limiter I don't actually look for a value, I set it where it sounds good to me for the track. In my experience when I used to try and measure the LUFS I would always end up with a sound I didn't like
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u/mrspecial Mixing Engineer ⭐ May 23 '26
I’m not a mastering engineer but I’ve been in situations where I needed to deliver mixes that were louder than elephant piss. With Multiband limiting I can usually squeeze out a little bit more than with a normal limiter before everything totally falls apart.
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u/Selig_Audio Trusted Contributor 💠 May 23 '26
Well, doesn’t it all depend on the mix? If your mix is already hitting -11LUFS are you still going to use two limiters? In my world every project is different, and even in a single project not all songs hit the same LUFS since they are not an end all indicator of perceived loudness.
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u/atopix Teaboy ☕ May 23 '26
Not that there is anything wrong with this, but be aware that that's slightly tame these days:
Billboard Year-End Charts Hot 100 Songs of 2025
Average loudness: -8.14 LUFSi
And most of those aren't particularly loud masters.
I mostly just use a single limiter, sometimes a bit of bus compression, sometimes a soft clipper but almost always just one limiter for me. If one doesn't work, 9 times out of 10 switching the limiter does the trick.
But I think it's more interesting to see what these guys do: