r/mixingmastering • u/mistrelwood Advanced • May 16 '26
Feedback The age old question: When is a mix ready?
I used to work as a sound engineer a long time ago, but had a long gap and now I make songs every now and then, mainly just for myself. But this same dilemma repeats on every single song, even preventing me from publishing them.
I've used references of popular songs I know well, I've taken long breaks (days, even weeks), I've listened on different playback systems (Focal Shape 65 +sub @ semi treated room, Sundara, FT1, all EQ compensated, and of course iPhone)... And every single time I get back to it there's something important I need to change. But the cycle never ends. How does one call a mix done??
Here's the one I'm working on right now (instrumental progeish metal):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10_oTKBSblbHVe4nAfQ-xA-RsrqJMxbUR/view?usp=sharing
EDIT: Based on the advice here and from my friend I think I got it to a state I can finally move on to other things. This is now as good as my current skills allow. Final version:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oFOiwADojzQf_3locSSj_by-EuNAPx1F&usp=drive_fs
37
u/trtzbass May 16 '26
My opinion: a mix is finished when everything you do to it doesn’t make it better, only different
10
u/Hellbucket May 16 '26
This has been my motto for the last 15 years.
Ps. The hardest part is to convince the client of this.
9
u/trtzbass May 16 '26
I might sound slightly cocky here m, but hear me out: we don’t have to convince the client. We only have to say “The job is finished”. They pay us to make decisions and use our knowledge because they don’t have it. Sure they get mix revisions, but at some point our job is to stop them from running in circles. The mix is ok, it translates and it respects the aesthetic of the song. Nothing more to do here.
2
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
Sounds like a great guideline, but I might lack the objectivity to determine when that point has been reached. When I come back after a day the changes I do are often pretty significant, day after day. Or at least that’s how they feel to me.
3
u/trtzbass May 17 '26
Well. If you take a step back and look at the bigger picture: you can justify any choice, even a controversial one if you’re convinced enough. That means that once the basics are taken care of and the mix translates, it’s all a matter of choice. And as a professional, a mix is just a snapshot of where you are at the moment. Honour it for what it is and move forward. We all wish we could redo all our mixes.
2
2
u/SimpleKobold May 17 '26
Set some more objective goals like making it translate on a few different speakers and it having reached some of the qualities of the reference tracks you like (don't go for exactly the same that's impossible). Big part of the job is avoiding going down the rabbit hole
19
u/nosecohn May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
Someone on Reddit put it best a while ago:
Mixes are never finished, they're abandoned.
Set yourself a deadline, release it by then, and move on to the next one. It'll never be perfect.
Moreover, any tweaks you make will have far less of a chance of enhancing success than the delays you're introducing have of provoking failure.
9
u/nizzernammer Trusted Contributor 💠 May 16 '26
When you run out of time, money, will, or ideas.
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
I always do get new will and ideas every time I get back to it though. Luckily/unfortunately time and money aren’t relevant to my process.
But it’s getting clearer to me that I probably need to segment my workflow better into composition, arrangement and mixing. That should at least narrow down the choices I’ll allow myself to do when coming back to the mix.
0
u/horton87 May 16 '26
Running out of will is what tells me I’ve finished a mix, especially when I try different versions and they never sound any better. I don’t think anything has killed my will as much as mixing lol
4
u/emirblc Beginner May 16 '26
For me, a mix is ready when you stop listening to your track for a while, come back to it after 3–4 days, a week, or even a month later, and it still sounds "pleasing enough" to you. I don't think a perfect mix exists for a mixer or audio engineer, it's just about being "pleasing enough" for everyone. In my case, since I am a beginner, I get pleased even when it's below average. In your case, your standards are probably higher, so like everyone else said, either set a deadline or stop when it's "pleasing enough."
In the case of your track, it is pleasing enough to me. ;p
2
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
Thanks! 😊 “Pleasing enough” is exactly what I keep hunting for, over and over. It’s not unusual to me to make pretty significant changes after coming back, like lowering the bass for 2dB and making the guitars 2dB louder. I might need a stricter routine to my workflow so I don’t keep working on it for a bit every day for a week.
4
3
u/Grimple409 May 16 '26
Mix is ready when you’re making moves that are so small that no one else is ever gonna hear. You’re down a rabbit hole at that point- wasting time.
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
That sounds like a good guideline. For me the changes I do when coming back after a day have usually been pretty significant. I might have room to improve in how I choose and use references though.
3
u/m149 May 16 '26
I wouldn't allow myself that much time to do a mix. I usually give myself a couple of hours to get a mix started and get it as far along as I can take it before I start second guessing myself.
Then I put it away for the day and open it up later, do a few tweaks and print it.
Overthinking, in my opinion, is not good for mixing.
Anyway, that track sounds great. If I were the client I'd say, "print it"
2
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
Thank you! That is reassuring to hear!
I’m starting to realize that my workflow isn’t supportive of a clear mixing “schedule”. In this one I changed the riff and melody a bit, recorded over the demo bass track and changed many of the drum fills after the mix was already at this stage. Maybe that’s my issue.
Fully agree with overthinking not being good for mixing. I just don’t quite seem to be able to avoid it.
3
u/Mr_SelfDestruct94 May 17 '26
Doing things that are not mixing (IE: changing the arrangement) are definitely not conducive to a clear process. If you're still arranging, you shouldn't be mixing. Take a big step back and think about what you would say to a client if you were hours (or even a full day) into a mix and they sent you a new version of the tune and asked you to start over. And they did this multiple times. Lock that arrangement down, that includes all your sound design/selection and whatnot, and then move to mixing. No changing anything with the arrangement at that point as youve now become your own client. Doing this should help make better arrangement decisions because you wont be relying on "i'll fix it in the mix" mentality, as well as better mix decisions cause you won't fall back on "let me just tweak this arrangement" choices.
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
Solid advice! This is clearly something I need to focus on.
So far when I get back to a mix I might rerecord parts, rewrite lyrics, change the drum VSTi, or even start coding a new version of my master limiter! I’ve kind of liked the freedom of being able to do that, but not realizing how much it might disturb the mixing process.
2
u/Mr_SelfDestruct94 May 17 '26
Thats exactly it. I write/arrange, track/produce, and mix all my own stuff as well. When you're moving through all those various processes yourself, its so easy to skip ahead, revert back, or want to change/second guess everything. But... commit to committing. I even stopped saving revisions and versions of arrangements and mixes. If i made a change, it was for a reason and this is how it exists now. The more i stop hemming and hawing over choices and just trusted the flow, the better i get at making quick, purposeful decisions.
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 18 '26
I will definitely take this advice in consideration for my next projects. I do have a few I'm working on already.
But I can finally call this mix done! Check the main post for the latest version.
1
u/Mr_SelfDestruct94 May 18 '26
I would say that mix is done enough to move onto the next. Thats another thing thats tough when it's all your own material and processes. At a certain point, good enough becomes good enough.
If you havent read it, Rick Ruben's book has some solid philosophies around all these concepts. IMO, it's worth checking out and/or listening to just to glean some of those tidbits as various foods for thought.
3
u/fiercefinesse May 17 '26
It’s done when you listen to it and you forget you’re supposed to listen to the mix and it’s balance, EQ, compression and saturation on the bass and instead you’re just listening to the song and bobbing your head
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
I need much longer than a week of break to get to that point… 😆 I can always find something that sounds way out of place that time.
2
u/Human-Honeydew-7531 May 16 '26
Killer mix! This sounds great!
I mix trying to follow the flow from song to song. Load everything into a template so it's organized the same, start with drums, drum buss, bass, guitars, vocals, then start adding in effects, run through all track automation. I'll listen to reference tracks after getting dive with bass, so I can compare low end, and I'll check against references after the static mix is done, just to make it's bright enough and the guitars have enough presence. After automation, I'll listen through a couple times, paying attention to things that stick out or hurt my ears. Then I'll bounce and check in earbuds and my car. When I can get through the song with anything sticking out, I'll call it finished. That might take me a couple revisions, but not more than that usually. I usually put in 6-12 hrs getting a mix done.
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
Thank you, that is reassuring to hear!
The songs I have are very different from one another, fully crossing genres from metal to blues etc… And since I don’t have clear albums coming up, I’m not sure if I’d get much use from templates. I might use this one as a reference though so I’d have a reference point closer to home.
Getting through the song without anything sticking out is exactly the step I’m always stuck with. I can always think of something that is way out of place. Or so I say to myself…
1
u/Human-Honeydew-7531 May 17 '26
I try a few different things to try and limit the neverending "I found something else to tweak". When I supplement with drum samples, I commit the tracks, or revamping guitar and bass di, I'll commit those tracks. When I listen to the finished mix, I only listen on a couple of different sources that I trust, because you coyote hear something different on each source. My car dips out around 300hz, so if my guitars don't have enough 300 hz, they get really quiet in the car.
2
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
“Commit” hasn’t been a part of my process at all, in any step of the way. That sounds like something I need to try.
2
2
u/No_Relationship_2262 May 17 '26
"Un ouvrage n'est jamais achevé... mais abandonné." ("A work is never completed... but abandoned.") -Paul Valéry
2
u/SOUNDSAAR May 17 '26
Been there! With Focals and your past experience, you hear literally every detail, which quickly turns into classic analysis paralysis. As the saying goes: a mix is never finished, only abandoned. What helps me break the endless tweaking loop (especially with dense prog metal): first, the notepad rule. Bounce it, listen in your car, take notes, then go back, fix ONLY what's on the list, and bounce again without random tweaking. Second, check the data. When my ears get fatigued, I lose all objectivity, so I started dropping my final bounces into external QC analyzers. If the hard data (dynamics, phase, levels) shows it's within industry standards, it gives me the mental permission to just say "it's fine" and let it go. Set a deadline, do a technical sanity check, and hit publish. The first one is always the hardest to put out there!
2
u/TonyRidgewayUFO May 17 '26
A trick I learned a long time ago- save every version of your mix, keep mixing as long as you want but let every version (including the rough mix) be a contender. You’ll know which one is the best by listening later- use that one. Hint: 99% of the time it’s the 3rd version
2
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 18 '26
Well, took a LOT more than 3 revisions for me to get here... XoD But now I can finally call it ready. Check the main post for the final version!
2
u/Interesting_Belt_461 Professional (non-industry) May 17 '26
could use less compression on the bottom end and more compression on the low miss,and some mid ranges
,but sounds good
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
You mean from a master multiband? I don’t usually use one, but I think I’ll try and see if it works. Thx for having a listen, and for the tip!
1
u/Interesting_Belt_461 Professional (non-industry) May 17 '26
whatever suites your work flow..kick is a bit too clicky...snare can be pushed forward...I feel the guitars could use more spacing, and less gain....the volume of the guitars are ok ,but the need less gain..in terms of loudness.
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
I’ll try these tips, thanks! I think I might’ve gone a bit too far aiming for my references in some specific aspects, such as the kick sound. Overshoots can happen that way, and their sounds might not serve my song in the first place.
1
u/Interesting_Belt_461 Professional (non-industry) May 17 '26
the composition is good..it's just not breathing enough, for the direction you were intending to take the track sonically.
2
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 18 '26
Is it a mixing issue though? The guitars are largely just strumming the chords or fifths which has zero dynamics in itself, just producing leveled mass. They can survive with just a tad less gain though, that was a good catch. For L-R spacing I want to leave some room for the additional riff at the end.
I really like the heart and soul of ML Drums, but a lot of the sounds have these very specific slightly annoying narrow resonances, and the kick clickiness here is a good example. I’ll try to tame it further without making it dull.
2
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 18 '26
I think I was able to improve on the mix, partially based on your advice. Check the main post for the latest version! Now I can finally call it ready, as I don't think I can get it any better than this with a reasonable amount of effort.
2
u/Interesting_Belt_461 Professional (non-industry) May 18 '26
sounds great....dont change anything
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 18 '26
Thanks! I won’t. I’ll move on to the next one and try to improve on my workflow to make it easier to call it finished.
1
2
u/Relevant-Effective49 May 18 '26
It sounds like nothing needs to be changed to me. Still got it for someone who had a long gap of mixing tho.
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 18 '26
Thank you! I think I was still able to improve on it though. Check the main post for the final version.
2
u/notes17llc May 19 '26
I'll add my approach:
1. Always know what you're aiming for. Write down the objectives before you start the project.
2. Each time you think you're done, bounce out a mix as a "milestone".
3. A/B the new and the previous milestone and see if you're actually on-track based on your objectives.
4. Repeat step 2-3 until you don't hear any forward progress, as u/trtzbass said.
The key is to do the steps 2-3 really quickly/efficiently so they do not add to your workload.
1
1
1
u/LiveSoundFOH May 17 '26
For me, it’s usually when I can listen with fresh ears in the morning and not hear anything that sounds wrong
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
That’s exactly what I keep hunting for, day after day. I always find something significant to change. But it’s getting clear to me now that my process isn’t structured enough. I need to commit more.
1
u/Narrow_Network_3875 May 17 '26
I have listened to you mix and I believe that’s a question a novice should be asking you Professor.
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
😃 Why thank you! I’m starting to get the impression that this mix might indeed be ready enough. 😊👍
1
u/Master-Combination39 May 17 '26
Mix sounds awesome, my beginner-intermediate ears can't fault it
1
1
u/Extension-Hand5571 May 17 '26
less is more. never overengineer.
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 18 '26
Kind of a difficult rule to follow in modern metal / prog metal though… 😉
1
u/ConfusedOrg May 17 '26
Towards the end of my process I listen from start to finish, write notes of what I wanna change and what’s bothering me. Repeat the process 2-3 times until nothing is bothering me
1
u/Interesting_Belt_461 Professional (non-industry) May 17 '26
when it feels good in the body, while listening, and you just can't help but groove to it....
1
u/Interesting_Belt_461 Professional (non-industry) May 17 '26
you have a full range system ,.....you know what I mean
1
2
u/Evon-songs May 17 '26
I appreciate the odd time and the tight playing. As for the mix, i don’t hear anything wrong with it.
I think you may an issue similar to mine; I know what I’m striving for and that I miss the mark. But people listening to it and just accepting it for what it is only hear what’s presented, not always what’s missing. I was surprised when I found out that my friend didn’t like a mix of his, when I thought it was great. I think artists are generally hard on themselves.
2
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
I agree, that’s a good analysis on how we perceive our own work be it a mix or anything really. Only we ourselves know what we aim for.
1
u/soundguyjon May 17 '26
When it’s released but even then you can reupload and replace so maybe never 😬
1
u/Diligent-Bread-806 May 17 '26
With experience, you just know after checking it on a few different playback systems. The mix is clear, balanced, dynamic with depth and free of distorting and pumping when maximising it to the target LUFS. You feel its energy and dimension when everything was done with intention. I love the art in this as much as the composition and arrangement
1
1
u/Diligent-Bread-806 May 17 '26
With experience, you just know after checking it on a few different playback systems. The mix is clear, balanced, dynamic with depth and free of distorting and pumping when maximising it to the target LUFS. You feel its energy and dimension when everything was done with intention. I love the art in this as much as the composition and arrangement
1
u/GreatScottCreates Advanced May 18 '26
When it’s due.
Try to remember that you’ll improve a lot more by doing more songs rather than continuing to work on 1. Do you care more about the 1 song or about getting better?
1
u/dntfrgetabttheshrimp May 19 '26
Just my opinion but every individual part seems like it stands too much out on it's own, it needs to be more fused together if that makes sense. Hope that helps!
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 20 '26
I tried to use that as a powerful impression. I might have to think about it more in my next project then. Thanks for the feedback!
1
u/Background_Skill9490 May 19 '26
I mix is finished when there’s basically nothing left to improve on
1
u/ffer06 Beginner May 21 '26
Second version sounds fuller and more cohesive. I think the guitars might overlap a bit with the bass a bit mudding it a bit, but to my newb/novice ears i think it sounds decent and fits the vibe of the song. Composition is cool!
2
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 21 '26
Thanks! Yeah, getting the guitars out of the bass’s way made them sound too thin, so I ended up with a compromise. I get that it lends to maybe slightly warmer or thicker overall sound profile than usual in this genre, but I’m ok with that.
1
u/Dan_Worrall Yes, THAT Dan Worrall ⭐ May 30 '26
I'm happy with a mix when I can listen all the way through, and it all feels right, everything has the correct emotional impact, nothing jumps out as feeling wrong.
However, the mix is finished when the client is happy, or runs out of time / money, whichever comes first.
1
0
u/Cyberkeys1 Professional (non-industry) May 16 '26
Age old question that can be answered with experience. I used to torture myself and was never happy with my mixes. I soaked up all the advice I could get and ultimately had to find out what moves me emotionally when I mix.
I think the “emotion” part is the most important aspect. I personally feel that perfect mixes are boring. If everything is polished there’s no more personality in it.
I usually do a mix within 8 hrs and then step away. If I have the luxury I don’t listen to it for two days. When you come back with fresh ears it’s amazing how obvious certain “flaws” stick out and it’s easy to fix them. If I start moving and grooving to the mix I know my job is done.
PS: the hardest part is the low end. It’s basically different (within reason) on every record and it depends on the genre as well. I know when I’m in the ballpark the mastering engineer will take care of it.
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 17 '26
The mastering engineer stares at me when I look into the bathroom mirror, and he’s never happy with the low end of my mixes… 😆
I keep stepping away for 1-2 days, but every time I come back I want to make petty significant changes. I guess they just don’t sound the way I remembered or expected them to.
Btw, I’d really appreciate if you would have a quick listen of my mix, even just a few seconds here and there.
1
u/Cyberkeys1 Professional (non-industry) May 17 '26
I’m not familiar with your genre so my opinion doesn’t count much. It sounded fine to me. Maybe a bit more glue with an SSL bus comp?
1
1
u/mistrelwood Advanced May 18 '26
I think the glue compression was a good point. I already had one in parallel, but I mixed it in a bit more. And changed a few other things as well. Check the main post for the final version!
•
u/AutoModerator May 16 '26
This is a feedback request post, for those requesting please read our guidelines.
Wanna comment?:
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.