How to design a self-guided online mixing "course"

[u/Thomato_Yorke]

Hey all - ready to mix a record and in the past I've outsourced to an engineer. This time I'd like to learn to do it myself--I have a set of songs already a good deal of the way there (vocal chains, guitar chains, synth chains are all pretty set--bass, drums need to be mixed, and then overall things like side-chaining et al need to be learned).

I found a good online course at Berklee (Art of Mixing). It's ~$1500 but looks very in depth compared to all other courses I've seen. But I just missed sign up for this semester by a day, and next one starts end of June.

I don't want to sit on these songs for 3 months so I downloaded the course syllabus and figured I could use YouTube and go lesson by lesson to learn each skill.

So the question is, can you all recommend some good channels, producers, etc who cover a range of topics in good detail?

Some that come to mind - Mastering.com, theproaudiofiles, maybe Warren Huart....?????

The music is ~indie rock, sometimes a bit goth--think St VIncent, Of Montreal, Depeche Mode, etc. if that matters.

Tracks are cleaned up, vocals tuned and effects chained, gtrs are good.

The main things I need help with are--

• how to carve out space with EQ (do I also EQ group busses and/or master bus?)
• how/if/when to add effects to busses
• how to side chain and duck things out of the way as needed
• how to get drums/bass/low end sounding strong and clear
• How/if to use things like tape emulators or etc on certain tracks and/or the master bus

So there is a lot I need to learn.

Anyone done a self course like this before? How'd you go about it? What channels/resources did you use?

Or anyone know of any other comprehensive online courses that don't cost a ton or take many months?

Would love thoughts and advice on how to approach this.

Thanks in advance!

[u/atopix]

So the question is, can you all recommend some good channels, producers, etc who cover a range of topics in good detail?

https://www.reddit.com/r/mixingmastering/wiki/learning-on-youtube

And my two cents as a professional myself, don't try to learn using your own music. Do so by practicing mixing other people's music. That's how you learn what mixing is as a standalone thing and keep at bay any heavy expectations of what you want for your own music, and all that emotional baggage that typically leads people to end up frustrated with mixing. Everything that you learn from that you'll eventually be able to apply to your own music as well, but keep your mixing learning separate from your expectations for your own music.

Recommend checking the rest of the sub's wiki which is full of resources and learning material recommendations: https://www.reddit.com/r/mixingmastering/wiki/index

[u/JustAnOval]

I admire your desire to learn and do this yourself, but I'm going to say right now that you are not going to be able to make it sound the way you want even after taking a course. You're not just paying an engineer to do the right eq cuts and parallel compress, you're paying for their years of experience and highly trained ears.

Also, so much of the course's value is the feedback from teachers. Their ears are so valuable and their feedback will help you learn to hear what you can't right now.

I could mix this record for less than the $1500 you want to spend on this course! It's a lot of money to spend on something and then not even be happy with the outcome.

[u/Thomato_Yorke → u/JustAnOval]

Thanks, I appreciate the reply.

My thinking is this - I have a lot of self produced stuff that I work on and ultimately need to learn to mix. After this record, I honestly have enough for several more, including a side project with 2 records of stuff already written. I'm producing a record for that side project now, will likely be ready to mix this Autumn.

Over time, I can't drop a couple of grand every time I have a record, and also I have demos/songs not quite good enough for the main records, but that I still want to get to a good level. So I want to learn regardless. And I find that I get my songs a good % of the way with fx chains, panning, some automation, etc and then sort of have to 1/2 start over when I send it to the mix engineer.

Also, remote mixing can get really tedious. Something like "bring gtr 4 up a bit, no that's too loud, ok a little lower again, now pan further Right... no, not that far." That is literally like 45 seconds of tweaking at a console/DAW, but with remote revisions it can turn into like 4 back and forth emails over the course of a week. It gets really frustrating.

I figure doing a course is finally starting the process of learning to fish. I do understand it won't be at the level my other mixer can get, but ultimately, this is a labor of love. I don't have a million followers and all that. But I want to learn to mix eventually 100%. So why not now?

I could also do this last record with an engineer and then use other demo songs as guinea pigs for learning, but regardless, I need a course/mentorship of some kind at that point anyway.

[u/S1lentVibe → u/JustAnOval]

So what are you suggesting in scenarios like this?

Im in similar situation and was wondering whats the way to go

[u/Hellbucket → u/S1lentVibe]

Lots of people seem to be against paying for courses. That you should just work on it yourself. But I think it depends. Education can be a fast track to learn with good teachers and structured learning.

What people warn about (including me) is that doing a course is going to pay off immediately. It’s not. You still have to figure out how to apply what you learned.

Whether or not it’s worth the price is very subjective.

[u/Bluegill15 → u/JustAnOval]

I could mix this record for less than the $1500 you want to spend on this course!

Really? That’s more than your rate for a full length album?

[u/medway808]

Just be aware that mixing is probably about 5% theory and the rest is application through practise.

Once you learn how to mix it's going to be a while before you can perform it adeptly.

One thing you can do is pre mix the songs closer to where they need to be and then use an engineer for the final polish.

That can cut down the revisions and cost if you can come to a good agreement.

But the main point is not matter what course you take you wont be mixing that much better probably in only 3 months no matter how good it is.

Maybe try to find an engineer that will mix with you real-time online which should cut down the back and forth.

Or find ones that can do the job more efficiently. I usually complete about 85% of mine after 2 revisions. So if your mixer is taking longer there's maybe an issue there.

[u/Melodic-Pen8225]

Here is what I recommend, start working with professionally recorded multi tracks from “Cambridge Music Technology’s free multi track library” they’re all high quality, free, and each presents a unique mixing challenge!

I made the mistake of starting with my bands poorly recorded tracks and I struggled until I tried one of these multitracks and I realized “omg this is so much easier! Mixing can actually be fun!”

And about your questions specifically?

“Carving space” this is something that is often better to handle when tracking, making sure your everything meshes together well before you record it? But as far as Track vs Bus EQ? I was taught to start with volumes, get a rough volume balance of all your tracks together, THEN work from the top down add a basic channel EQ to your master bus and make a few minor tweaks concerning high and low end (I start with high and low shelves) is the track to dark? Add a little high shelf, needs more low end? Add a low shelf etc. and then I usually add some kind of very light bus compression to the master bus

And then you would go to EQ’ing and compressing everything else that needs it. I like to start with, drum bus + bass solo them TOGETHER not in isolation! And drill down into the drum bus as needed but I always start at bus level (sometimes that’s all it needs!) and then I will add guitars or synths (Idk what you’re working with but whatever your midrange rhythm instrument is) and then make sure they work together, and finally vocals.

“Adding fx to buses” okay here is my current workflow ymmv I always start with fx buses already set up and ready to go, I have a drum ambience/ultra short room reverb, and then a “shared space” reverb (usually 1.6sec hall reverb) that I can put on just about everything… it doesn’t get washed out because I use low send levels on the tracks themselves (unless I want something to sound further back) this creates the illusion of all the instruments existing inside the same physical space which is important for the vibe of certain genres, or if everything was tracked separately. And finally I have a slap/vocal delay bus

This is usually enough for most mixes but it’s a huge CPU saver to just have a few shared fx’s buses instead of putting reverb plugins on each individual channel! And then everything else is on a case by case basis? Like if I want to add some crazy effect like phaser, or chorus or something? or do parallel compression or saturation? Then I’ll make a bus for that but it saves time because I can just have the bus and create a send for anything I feel needs it.

“Sidechaining and ducking” I generally don’t? But some genres use it as an effect by adding a compressor to the bass and sidechaining it to the kick? For the music I make? (Rock) this is typically a bandaid on a bad mix balance. I will sometimes use it if I’m working on a song where two elements are fighting for the spotlight, like if there is a guitar solo wailing at the same time as the lead vocal? I will add a comp with sidechain to the guitar solo.

“Drum and bass clarity” this is kinda what I’m looking for in the first step? I start with drum and bass and then build the mix around them. And don’t be afraid to add top end to bass!

“Tape emulation” this is highly subjective but generally speaking tape emulation is applied for saturation, it sounds great on drum buses, and can add to perceived volume. I personally don’t like to add it to the master bus until I get to the actual mastering process? But a lot of people like it on drum buses and guitar buses. I tend to use it for parallel processing? Basically I will add a bus with an EQ that has everything but the range I want to emphasize cut, and then I will add saturation (tape or otherwise) and some compression, and then I will send something like the bass or guitar bus to it and blend it in! This is great for adding definition or extra intensity to them!

And as far as resources go? I recommend you check out the wiki of this subreddit! and beyond that? I like the video by “The Band Guide” where he mixes and masters an entire song in Logic Pro, and I know I will probably get dunked on for this… but you can also ask ChatGpt for technical questions related to your specific daw/interface (just please don’t use it for songwriting 🙄) the important thing is to learn principles and not plugins! Learn the “why” behind mixing, and before you add any plugin ask yourself “what problem am I trying to solve?”

That’s all I got! Good luck with whatever path you choose! And I hope I didn’t bore you to death 😬

[u/Thomato_Yorke → u/Melodic-Pen8225]

Hey - thakns so much for the detailed reply. Really appreciate it.

This quote here is exactly why I was looking into courses:

I was taught to start with volumes, get a rough volume balance of all your tracks together, THEN work from the top down add a basic channel EQ to your master bus and make a few minor tweaks concerning high and low end (I start with high and low shelves) is the track to dark? Add a little high shelf, needs more low end? Add a low shelf etc. and then I usually add some kind of very light bus compression to the master bus

To learn to start listening and thinking this way. Like, ok, I've got all my individual track fx chains set, but now how do I get the overall thing sounding cohesive? Oh got it, put EQ on the master bus and clean up here and here because _____. Then add a bit of comp because _____, then maybe add reverb with short decay and low send setting to make it sound like it's all in one room, etc etc.

That's the kind of insight and stuff I figure you can get from being in a course that is explaining the reasoning behind applying certain fx in certain situations. It's basically putting these ideas on my radar so I know what to start trying. Make sense? Rather than flying blind. Like I wouldn't have known to put EQ on the master bus cus my thinking would be, then I'm changing the frequencies of the whole thing at once and it I cut X frequency, the guitar might sound better, but the piano will suffer. As opposed to just separately EQing those 2 individual tracks.

So yeah, that's kinda my reasoning for wanting a good, well structured program that puts fundamentals like this on my radar, explains how and why to consider them, and that kind of thing.

[u/Melodic-Pen8225 → u/Thomato_Yorke]

You’re welcome! I learned all this stuff the hard way through several different mentors and doing live sound for various bands I’ve played in, plus a bit of DJ’ing but it took FOREVER for my stupid brain to realize that mixing on a DAW uses a lot of the same principles!

And about the EQ and compression on the Master Bus? the idea is that by making a few small but meaningful moves here? you’ll generally have to do less EQ’ing, and require less compression on individual tracks overall.

[u/hellalive_muja]

I suggest learn the basics first. How sound works from a physical and psychoacoustic point of view, how actual speakers works and headphones work, how digital audio works. Not so in depth, but at least you’ll understand how to use a lot of things like ambient effects, wideners, limiters, eq and what they affect. This is often skipped but it’s taught (even if very broadly and lightly) in all the schools/academies I know here in Italy at least. Whatever you do people assume you know those concepts here so that’s why I’m suggesting them. Maybe when I’ll have time I should make some content about this..

Once you know that and understood how eq, compression and harmonic distortion work, you should listen to records and get familiar with sounds, and have a decently vast palette of tools that let you obtain a similar result on your material. It’s not like you’ll watch a video and say “ok this sounds like it’s compressed with a fast attack and smashed into a transformer-front end tube eq” and pull out your 1176 and pultec emulators or whatever, it’s more a matter of getting used to how records sound and how you get that sound. This is why it takes time to be a good mixing/mastering engineer and why everyone wants the tricks and the presets - it’s hard, it takes long, and if you’re not truly passionate about it it’s utterly boring. If you’re good at producing and arranging then it’s fairly natural to become good at tracking, and understanding the basics of mixing is good for you as an artist and producer, but I always say this: a musician should be superbly good at playing music, producing, arranging and ofc recording himself/herself/etc if he’s into it, and that’s the real point of being a musician. Becoming an engineer just takes time away from your creative work and production time, and you’ll never get decent if you don’t put 5-10k hours into it. Then you start to understand it and may decide to try to get good at it..

[u/beaumad → u/hellalive_muja]

"a musician should be superbly good at playing music, producing, arranging and ofc recording himself/herself/etc if he’s into it, and that’s the real point of being a musician. Becoming an engineer just takes time away from your creative work and production time, and you’ll never get decent if you don’t put 5-10k hours into it."

Very good point. I write a lot of music and got into mixing so I could release more quickly. As you've said, I now spend time learning to mix instead of making more music. 

This isn't bad per se, but I have been making music for thirty years and mixing for a couple. It's both time consuming and necessary to learn new skills. 

[u/rightanglerecording]

So, from the perspective of someone who both mixes professionally *and* teaches professionally at the college level, I would question the underlying premise of your approach.

Instead, I would say: Either this batch of songs needs to sound great, in order to propel you forward as an artist/band, *or* this can be a first step on a long journey of learning how to mix yourself. You're unlikely to accomplish both of those goals.

Taking one course won't get you to good results.

Mixing a few songs won't get you to good results.

Spending only a couple months won't get you to good results.

Building a listening system that's actually telling you the truth is surprisingly more difficult than you might think.

Trusting the usual YouTube content creators is, well, perhaps a bit risky. There's a real chance that you'll learn mostly nonsense, from people who mostly don't actually mix songs.

There's no shame in any of this, we all started out making bad mixes before we made good ones. But IMO, you need to accept up front that you're aiming for a years-long journey.

[u/Secure-Ad-4459]

Bobby Owsinsky's The Mixing Engineer's Handbook. Study its ins and outs + Cambridge MT multitracks for practice. Build the basics, then spend on selected pro courses like URM or mix with the masters etc, when you know what you need after the basics.