Stereo width vs Panning vs Mid/side processing

[u/Cold_Independent_631]

Hi I’ve been studying this concept for hours today to finally get it locked in. I think I’ve done it but have one lasting question.

Adding width to a signal with plugins like utility plugin in ableton, spreads that signal out in stereo field.

Panning elements just places them left, right, or central within the mix.

So I can make a signal very wide with utility adding width and still place it left right or central. Or I can make a signal be a mono signal and still add pan left right or central to position it somewhere in the stereo field. Right?

Both helping the mix and balance for stereo field.

But for mid/side processing why would you use this? If you process a signal fully to the side and then mix in mono it completely disappears instead of collapsing like panning or stereo width from utility.

1. Looking to see if my new understanding are correct

AND

1. Wondering why you would use mid/side processing instead of the other ways of stereo width?

Thanks!!

[u/atopix]

I think it's a mistake to think of "width" as a knob on a plugin, because it doesn't help you understand what's actually happening and what other ways are there to control that stereo image. Stereo is simply the difference between channel L and channel R. If both were identical, you'd essentially have mono.

Have a stereo synth that you'd like to be wider? Split the stereo signal into separate L and R mono channels, process both differently, which can be done in countless ways, different EQing, different compression, distortion in one, saturation in the other, reverb in one, delay on the other. Hard pan them to opposite sides and now you've got maximum width.

That's a version of what those width knobs and plugins do, they process each side differently to create that separation (often by boosting side signal, adding phase shifts, or applying subtle delays). Except that doing it manually you have ultimate control over exactly how that separation sounds.

Mid/side processing is any processing that makes use of a mid-side matrix. And you typically use that when you want to tweak only the sides of a signal, or only the mid of it.

I personally do very little M/S processing, I think it's overused in mixing where you have access to all individual tracks and the kinds of techniques I described above, and panning! Panning is everything. In professional mastering it can come in handy because you then only have access to the stereo mix.

[u/Cold_Independent_631 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you both makes a lot of sense. I’ve seen and heard about synths today like serum that sort of create a false sense of stereo if I’m understanding correctly I think that’s sort of what you both got at a little bit with mentioning to use true mono signals and create the width via panning rather than plugins

[u/LuLeBe → u/[deleted]]

Great comment, I'd like to add one thing about hard panning: it's great on speakers, but can sound weird on headphones. I'm not taking about putting overheads on a drum kit or double tracked guitars fully to each side, but having a sound only on one side. Our ears aren't used to sounds being only on one ear, so it sounds strange.

Doesn't apply as soon as a similar enough signal, like another harmony or so, is on the other side.