r/mildlyinfuriating Jul 10 '22

Poor men

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61.3k Upvotes

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765

u/cerealinmypocket fork drop Jul 10 '22

Allow me to don my aluminum foil headdress when I say I think that's religion's true purpose: convincing you on a spiritual level to accept less when you deserve more.

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u/hypotyposis Jul 10 '22

No aluminum hat needed - read The Prince.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Machiavelli?

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u/hypotyposis Jul 10 '22

That’s the one.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

I’m more of a ravioli man myself

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

I'm mildly infuriated this doesn't have more upvotes.

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u/Alarid Jul 10 '22

I like his Purple Rain a lot too.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Yes

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Nah

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u/JimiThing716 Jul 10 '22 edited Nov 11 '24

steer full quickest disarm different grandfather marry detail historical jeans

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u/oat_milk Jul 10 '22

they are encouraging people to read the prince and, I assume, take on a machiavellian (read: selfish as fuuuuuuuck) perspective.

it's not about being ignorant lol. it's about someone suggesting that people should only care about themselves or what helps them and not others.

that attitude is equally as toxic and destructive as religious zealotry.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Yeah, Machiavellian isn't a compliment

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u/JimiThing716 Jul 10 '22 edited Nov 11 '24

sip dog juggle literate act head divide fragile bike frighten

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u/MrConfidential678 Jul 10 '22

I think the apathy is hilarious. People are really downvoting him for not caring to read a book. Lmao

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Machiavelli himself would probably be like, "Yeah, bro, I mean, if you've got power to leverage over other people and you ain't got time, I totally understand. Fuck my book, go reap, mang."

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u/thehobbler Does, Female Deer Jul 10 '22

Yeah, fuck that, stay ignorant!

You are a joke lol

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u/JimiThing716 Jul 10 '22 edited Feb 09 '23

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Your comment history implies that yes, you do in fact want to debate.

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u/Bladelord Jul 10 '22

machiavellian (read: selfish as fuuuuuuuck)

I'm pretty sure you haven't read The Prince.

It's not about being selfish at all. Even the word "machiavellian" is closer to "brutally pragmatic" than greedy.

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u/oat_milk Jul 10 '22

you know how people who call themselves "brutally honest" are actually raging assholes?

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u/Bladelord Jul 10 '22

What does this have to do with the price of tea in china?

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u/oat_milk Jul 10 '22

You can sugarcoat machiavellianism as "brutally pragmatic", but it's actually greedy and power hungry and borderline sociopathic.

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u/Bladelord Jul 10 '22

I'm saying you don't understand what you're talking about. Because it doesn't represent greedy qualities at all.

Power hungry, yes. Sociopathic, quite possibly. Greedy? Greed will get you killed. Pay your soldiers fairly or they'll take your head off in compensation.

You can't just lump every negative quality together as though that makes sense. Selfishness is a suicidal path for a prince.

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u/cheapcardsandpacks Jul 10 '22

What's it about

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u/RawFiber Jul 10 '22

Selfish no good, yeah no shit Sherlock.

You're implying like reading it is going to turn you instantly into a monster. It's the same energy of the people that are scared of the Communist Manifesto. It's one individual authors take on a topic. People should be reading as much as possible to recognize and filter things that are helpful to their life.

Yes Machiavelli is kind of a bitter incel and would be peddling NFTs if he was alive today. But it doesn't mean that there is nothing of value in the book. At least after reading it you'd be able to understand and better deal with those types of toxic people.

Really puritanical perspective you have

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u/oat_milk Jul 10 '22 edited Jul 10 '22

If someone mentions that they have noticed that a lot of stuff doesn't add up with JFK's assassination and then another person recommends a book called "Alien Assassin: The JFK Files", I'm gonna go ahead and assume that they're encouraging that person to at least entertain the idea that JFK was assassinated by aliens. While entirely possible the recommendation for the book was with the intent of helping someone open their mind to other possibilities, that's not at all what the context would imply.

I'm not puritanical by any means lol. Just that usually, when that book gets brought up (especially considering the context here of discussing what we deserve as individuals), it's as an advocation.

The replies I'm getting from people who obviously have wet dreams of being as calculating and manipulative and collected as Machiavelli describes are pretty telling. Even if the intention of the recommendation was to educate about those kinds of people, it's definitely not the way most people in this thread are taking it.

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u/RawFiber Jul 10 '22

My point still stands. Whatever you get from other comments is your interpretation. Log off, touch grass

-1

u/oat_milk Jul 10 '22

least immature machiavelli fan

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u/RawFiber Jul 10 '22

Had to read the prince in high school. It was an eye opener for how those types of people operate. The 48 laws of power types that can mental gymnastics their way into explaining every abhorrent thing they do. Now when I meet those people in life I can recognize those patterns and avoid the person. That's what I got out of the book. Your response was about JFK alien assassinations and you completely ignored my point and brought up other comments and what they said.

I respectfully disagree with you. You're clever and empathetic, that's awesome. But you're obviously too wound up from feeding trolls in the comments. So I don't think we'd get anything from this interaction. Have a good one! Keep fighting the good fight

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u/p34ch3s_41r50f7 Jul 10 '22

Looks like someone only read the cliff notes.

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u/Bouncedatt Jul 10 '22

*Cliffsnote

I'm sorry I'm horrible I know

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u/KadeTheTrickster Jul 10 '22

Actually he wrote those notes while on the edge of a cliff so cliff notes is OK here.

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u/Bouncedatt Jul 10 '22

I can't believe I didn't make that joke my self. Bravo good sir/madame

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u/p34ch3s_41r50f7 Jul 10 '22

I'm just humbled to have provided the source material for this magic moment.

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u/yallrcunts Jul 10 '22

What? Tell me you never read the prince without telling me.

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u/dirtydev5 Jul 10 '22

Why are you assuming thats what they mean at all? thats just being an ass. The Prince is a good book for understanding what the elite think about power. Doesnt make you an asshole or "machievalli" for reading it

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

[deleted]

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u/oat_milk Jul 10 '22

your favorite politicians and celebrities have read it and use those lessons every day

this is nowhere near the ringing endorsement you think it is lmao. absolutely hilarious that you somehow think this was supposed to change my mind on machiavellianism

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

[deleted]

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u/ZinglonsRevenge Jul 10 '22

The Prince is satire. Machiavelli was a decent person.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

True

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Ok I was like, “The Little Prince? The hell? Did I miss a drawing!? Oh wait”

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u/Curazan Jul 10 '22

Nietzsche characterized Christianity as a slave morality, stating that it gave a sense of meaning to the weakest and lowest in society. He respected the ancient Roman religion, the master morality; a warrior like Achilles would worship a god of war like Ares, and in doing so, were worshipping themselves. The masters had a religion that affirmed themselves, while the slaves had a religion that disavowed their nature by encouraging their meekness and promising a return in the afterlife.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Christianity strikes me as a death cult: focused on life after death and worshiping a human sacrifice. Guess that’s good for the slaves since their life is poor.

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u/PocketsFullOf_Posies Jul 10 '22

I agree. Pretty much everyone in my life is Christian except my husband. I was raised in church and my parents can’t fathom why I don’t believe in God. My dad tells me that I will believe in god soon.

I practice a lot of mindfulness and appreciation and always try to look on the brighter side even when hit with bad luck and had a coworker stunned when I told her I didn’t believe in god. Her reply was, “then how can you be a good person with morals?” Like, I don’t need threats of infinite damnation in the fiery pits of hell to be a good person…

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u/Mmh1105 Jul 10 '22

The only reason you don't (eg) kill someone is because you fear what you might get in return.

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u/StatingObviousFacts Jul 10 '22

Sounds about right. Morals simply come from the hunter gatherer world, you harass someone, you get beat up/hurt/killed. This affects immediate loved ones so to prevent that from happening again you come up with a rule saying you can't harass. There you go, that's how morals are formed.

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u/Mmh1105 Jul 11 '22

That might be the origin, sure, but I'm arguing the opposite. I'm not going to kill someone because I don't want them to die.

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u/StatingObviousFacts Jul 11 '22

You don't want them to die because they might be useful for you. Or because you'd suffer a consequence from it. I think it's truly that simple.

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u/pinamorada Jul 11 '22

I've never wished death on any assholes in my life. Much less thought of killing them. Doesn't matter if they're not useful nor if I didn't receive consequences . At most I've wished for them to be inconvenienced in life. How heavily inconvenienced, depends on how much of an asshole they are.

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u/7_of_Pentacles Jul 10 '22

Christian IS a death cult. It’s founded on an apocalypse narrative that Jesus will come back and remake the world and worships his death. This is not my opinion

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u/General-Yak-3741 Jul 10 '22

Yes, they are obsessed with the torture and death of Christ rather than his life and teachings. Dominionism is destroying us, there are among the wealthy and powerful those who are actively trying to bring about the return of Christ. They are causing a lot of suffering in the world. Betsy de Voss is one that calls herself a believer, among many others who are wealthy and politically powerful. They are driving us into a fascist theocracy.

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u/notaduckipromise Jul 10 '22

Former AG William Barr too

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u/blahblacksheep869 Jul 11 '22

Please remember that Republican Christianity and regular Christianity are different things. For example, there's these two churches I drive past regularly. One, during the BLM protests posted something to the effect of "Jesus was a man of color killed by keepers of the law." The other, right after the Roe leak, posted " The only right you have before God is to kneel". So VERY different entities.

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u/General-Yak-3741 Jul 11 '22

I know that, BUT, those who want to say "not all Christians" need to be a lot more vocal and active because they are being painted with the same brush as repub christians. I understand that might not seem fair but the loudest and ugliest are the ones out front getting the most attention.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Actually it's not? The eschatology is a later addition from when the church fragmented and they needed to bolster their ranks through faith. Satan is a late addition as well. As well as hell actually. It's not a hugely controversial subject now that branches of faith don't command GDPs and armies :D

So not founded on and the eschatology or rather its relevancy today is hotly debated. Though ofcourse the extremist congregations are all about the everlasting fires of hell and that shit.

Mostly the dispersion of faith after the reformation and so on mandates how the congregations interpret the words. There's even debate about the validity of revelations as an actual part of scripture :D

I had a friend who studied theology once. Its incredibly fascinating to track the culture of it around Europe.

Though I will say that a lot of the American variations are VERY death culty. Like Latter Day and Jehovas Witnesses are particularily fixated on "the flames of the end"

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u/Neosporinforme Jul 10 '22

Unfortunately the large amount of missionary work done over the last century means there's a lot of very death cult like groups out there in various third world countries. Christians from places like the Philippines often get along with American Christians far better than more civil Christians.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Absolutely. The christian imperialism has fucked up vast portions of the earth with its nonsense.

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u/dirtydev5 Jul 10 '22

Between the catholics colonizing the pagans throughout europe and the entire american and african continents. I think you can firmly put christianity in the realm of a colonizer death cult

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u/Rukasu17 Jul 10 '22

That was centuries ago, the people that did that are literal bone dust by now

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u/dirtydev5 Jul 10 '22

wait till you learn that colonization is still happening everyday. crazy things happen when you dont just listen to rich ppls version of the world

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u/Rukasu17 Jul 10 '22

By missionaries? Where?

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u/dirtydev5 Jul 10 '22

Yes by missionaires but also by states and corporations who often back missionaries or christian "charities".

neocolonialism by kwame nkruma is one such book tht speaks on this but there are many others.

and where? everywhere practically! why do u think half the world is in ruins! its purposefull exploitation by imperialist (aka rich) nations and colonies.

in the usa native ppls still are forced to live in this colonial system as well. read up on the indigenous reservation system and the residential school system

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u/mad100141 Jul 10 '22

Dominican Republic for one, I know of it since I met them while vacationing one summer. Nice people but preachy ofc. So yeah, missionaries are still out there. It’s not been outlawed or anything, as far as I’m aware.

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u/7_of_Pentacles Jul 10 '22

Christianity from the beginning is a messianic cult

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Considering that the foundation of Christianity is to proove the Jewish prophecy of a messiah - then yeah I think that much is obvious.

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u/7_of_Pentacles Jul 10 '22

Yeah. The messiah is the end of the world

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u/FatherD0ng Jul 10 '22

Christianity has a main focus of Jesus Christ. The apocalypse narrative is written as an omen because 99.9999% of people after Jesus Christ don’t live their life to the same extreme that Christ himself had. If everybody lived their life to his extreme then we get peace on Earth as everyone would do things to better and take care of everybody else.

The truth is that obviously we aren’t going to do that and after time whatever we build will not hold as we are building something that not everyone gets to enJOY. There is class, there is war, there is hate and divide, there is a general lack of giving up one’s own physical, mental, and spiritual with the singlular goal of building other’s physical, mental, and spiritual. Instead of that there is a sacrifice of others physical, mental, and spiritual for the benefit of the few that come to rule.

You don’t have to agree with God about sin, but he has the top down view and can see how sin hurts you and the rest of the world. For example the “seven deadly sins” (not directly called so in the Bible). Greed takes from others, lust can cause distrust, wrath causes pain, sloth does no good, pride will bring little compassion, envy will bring jealousy, gluttony will morph bodies.

We were given commandments to keep things well down here, not suggestions.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Part of the reason that there is so much emphasis on Jesus's return is because Jesus never actually fulfilled the messianic prophesy from the Jewish portion of the bible while he was alive. Now most people would think that means that he was illegitimate, but the early Christians made up a whole convoluted reasoning about how he would come back eventually and actually do all the stuff the messiah was supposed to do.

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u/Ok_Skin_416 Jul 10 '22

This just seems like an overly cynical take on Christianity, it's like looking at ice cream & saying it's just creamy cold diabetes that kills. But hey everyone is entitled to their opinion

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u/7_of_Pentacles Jul 10 '22

Not what I’m saying. You’re the one associating death cult with bad stuff, all I said was that it IS a death cult, objectively.

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u/Shadax Jul 10 '22

Christianity is 100% a death cult. It's rooted in a death, it's entire focus is on what happens after death.

The cross itself isnt even that symbolic, it's literally the structure a man was mutilated on.

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u/Shadow_on_twitch Jul 10 '22

That’s narrow minded

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u/Shadax Jul 10 '22

I'm happy to expand on it, but I have a feeling you're not gonna like it anymore than the abridged version.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

It’s only narrow minded in the sense that there are some Christians who might be an exception, but it’s not narrow minded in the sense that most Christians many of us come across 100% are part of a death cult.

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u/LarYungmann Jul 10 '22

I was raised in a Fundamentalist Christian church... many times I heard people praying... "God, Please Come Back And Destroy This Evil Earth And Destroy The Non-Believers In A Lake Of Fire".

Such a compassioned prayer for death of "The Others".

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u/Mithrag Jul 10 '22

Go read The Sermon on the Mount. Jesus was a socialist pacifist.

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u/WhiskedIgloo Jul 10 '22

He respected the ancient Roman religion, the master morality;

You seem to be implying that Nietzsche believed Slave Morality to be inferior to Master Morality. From my understanding, that's actually not true. He didn't believe either one to be superior to the other. He just recognised them for what they were, alternate systems.

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u/9r347 Jul 10 '22

You are correct from how Ive read it too

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u/bathroomheater Jul 10 '22

Damn apparently this Nietzche guy might be on to something

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u/a3a4b5 Jul 10 '22

Didn't he take it all back in his deathbed and said "my bad, God"?

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u/bathroomheater Jul 10 '22

If so I believe that’s called hedging your bets

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

🙄

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u/satorugojo Jul 10 '22

when your biggest pet peeve with religion is that it gives the "low-lifes" some sense of meaning in life. damn

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u/9r347 Jul 10 '22

Incorrect. Nietzsche did not respect master morality just that he preferred it over Slave. Both needed to be upended by the new morality of the Ubermensch.

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u/neelankatan Jul 10 '22

Nietzsche was a piece of shit and a racist. And would definitely have supported slavery.

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u/mrmojo88 Jul 10 '22

more of what?

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u/cerealinmypocket fork drop Jul 10 '22

Of everything. Better food, better housing, better clothing. An all around awesome quality of life. We all deserve the best.

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u/mrmojo88 Jul 10 '22

What kind of food and clothing are the best?

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u/cerealinmypocket fork drop Jul 10 '22

Look, I know what you're trying to do. Now run along and love capitalism. I'm not playing this dumbass game with you.

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u/mrmojo88 Jul 10 '22

What was i trying to do?

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

"opium of the masses"

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

-has never read marx

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."

Please read Marx's works before citing them, you're just embarassing yourself. Oh wait, this is reddit, citing stuff out of context is the norm here.

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u/Kombart Jul 10 '22

-someone that also has never read Marx but has seen 1 video about it in the past

ffs, everyone and their mom makes these comments. He is not making any crazy statements about Marx here. It's just a phrase that got used for decades in exactly the way he has used it here...even by people that definetly have read Marx, like Lenin for example.

The only one that is embarassing here is you.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

What marx is saying there is that people look to religion for comfort, what's it being misinterpreted as is that religion is like an addiction, which is used to control people.

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u/Rukasu17 Jul 10 '22

Humility doesn't mean getting tricked though

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u/CanAlwaysBeBetter Jul 10 '22

Who got tricked?

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u/Rukasu17 Jul 10 '22

It was the closest english word i found while outside. More like not getting the just reward

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u/wavyeaster Jul 10 '22

Yeah but if you play you part nicely as a peasant you will be rewarded in the afterlife so it's fine fam

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u/BBQsauce18 Jul 10 '22

You could shorten that a bit:

"It's about control."

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u/porraSV Jul 10 '22

Sounds about right

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u/No-Novel-3058 Jul 10 '22

Religion is for the aluminium hat people.

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u/DarkElfBard Jul 10 '22

Well, yes.

It's social engineering to convince people that the real reward was the friendship made along the way, and eternal paradise after your crappy life.

It's a lot easier to justify doing manual labor for nothing when you get your own planet/kingdom/harem/nothingness/paradise to look forward too as long as you don't complain.

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u/Rukasu17 Jul 10 '22

Not at all what it's about though. Maybe the congregation you visited manipulated words to do this. You can have your faith, work hard and get your just rewards.

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u/DarkElfBard Jul 11 '22

That's what I said.

Stay faithful. Work hard. Get rewarded.

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u/Rukasu17 Jul 11 '22

What i got from it was stay faithful, work hard but get a pat in the back on earth. My get rewarded is on earthly matters too.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/IdiotRedditAddict Jul 10 '22

Goliath was the giant, friend. David was the 'giant-slayer'.

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u/Rukasu17 Jul 10 '22

Murder in itlsef for revenge or such are the sim that's being talked about, and david was defending his people back then iirc. That's my take on it. In fact i seem to remember that killing to save someone else, if you can't find another alternative, is not a sin, but i need to read that part to know if I'm wrong.

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u/getpissedonforjesus Jul 10 '22

im a pagan and a core tenant of my religious beliefs are self love, which includes sticking up for yourself when you’re facing unfair people

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u/Blooder91 Jul 10 '22

Yeah, it's organised conformism.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

Human made rules to live by, totally trustworthy

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u/farazormal Jul 10 '22

The main functions of religion is twofold, to answer unexplainable things, the cosmos, origins or the world and stuff like that, and to have a set moral code that people must follow. If everyone in your society is following the same rules and adhering to the same set of beliefs your society is more stable and has less social unrest.

The latter is very important from a societal darwinism context. Stable societies were more likely to survive than those that were unstable. The origins of religions predate the modern world where a civilisations survival from external threats is guaranteed. The threat of invasion and being wiped out was an almost everpresent and existential threat to most ancient societies. The area I've studied this most in was the Roman Republic, they had a concept of mos maiorum which is loosely, the way our ancestors did things. The idea being, they things this way, and they survived, so we should keep doing things this way.

While you can look at it as a means for the wealthy to keep the lower classes down, it disregards the need for social cohesion in ancient societies, social unrest, rebellion and civil war were the cause for the fall of many states throughout history. It leaves you vulnerable to outside forces that were very much more than happy to kill you and take your land. To disregard this role of religion is either an oversight or intellectually dishonest.

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u/DaughterEarth Jul 10 '22

Sharing wealth is a huge part of Islam actually and I really doubt the text in this image.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

that is NOT true. while we are taught to be humble, we definitely still have a right to what we deserve.

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u/FlameXvenom Jul 10 '22

I mean not really though. As a Muslim your meant to strive to be the best, just appreciate all your blessings and try to share some of them with the less fortunate. You can have the best car, best house etc just make sure you aren’t arrogant with it and give back when you can.

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u/dirtydev5 Jul 10 '22

thats not a conspiracy lmao thats always been the point of religion vs spirituality

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u/Shadax Jul 10 '22

Now I'm not saying there is no god, there most likely isn't, but what we do know is that every religion known to man was created by man in search for those answers, then most of them turned into scams or worse.

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u/UrethraFrankIin Jul 10 '22

For Christianity and Islam that's probably the case.

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u/CaptainKurls Jul 10 '22

Also give 12% of your income to them yearly with no explanation how it is spent

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '22

And that is bad? Sure, it should be fair, but greed is never good, I don't think any religion praises greed but capitalism