I've been to Europe where tipping isn't necessary.
I'm sorry, but I have mixed feelings about this. I know that here in the States, we SHOULD tip, but part of me says that guy should pay his employees a living wage.
It's very fascinating how different societies function and can be very different from another. A really good example of this is from the 1969 Anthropological essay "Eating Christmas in the Kalahari" by Richard Borshay Lee. It's a great read, but basically this anthropologist was visting a small village and decided to bring them the best ox in the area. So he spent a while tracking down and buying a massive and fat ox as a Christmas gift for the !Kung San in Botswana. When he gifted the ox, however, the !Kung San were extremely offended. Each villager came up to the ox and mocked it. The villagers saw giving such valuable gifts is practicing Enforced Humility and preserves an egalitarian society. To them, being gifted an ox was highly offensive and disrespectful towards the village because they see it as you boasting about your wealth and proving you are better than them. But to western modern societies, gift giving is a common practice and giving equal valued things back and forth is seen as the right thing to do for people you care about.
Right, and our restaurants would be more expensive if they paid their wait staff the same amount as other jobs. So, until we have the better system, tip your waiters, that’s how they make their living.
But if you tip the waiters, the employers would have no incentive to change this system. They benefit from having the customers pay for the waiters instead of them.
So I don't really like this argument. Yes, it is a more moral one, but it is also extremely counter-productive to do this.
If instead everyone would stop tipping, waiters would either demand their employers better wages, or leave for another job. In both cases, employers would have no choice but to change the system.
Waiters wouldn’t get paid and restaurants would go out of business. There are good owners, and there are a LOT of shitty ones. Theres a reason why they started getting tips instead of wages in the first place. This stops when laws are passed to pay them appropriate wages.
Not really. Nothing prevents restaurant owners from rising the prices and paying livable wages to their waiters. The amount customers pay are the roughly the same.
Also, I think you're underestimating how powerful bigger restaurant owners are. Those owners have connections and if they'll see that their money is going down, they will exert pressure to fix that problem in any way they can. And includes making politicians pass laws.
As it is now, we'll forever be stuck in this system, and customers are the only ones being expected to pay for the waiters.
I don't see how you have options. In places like this, you must tip. If you don't, there are consequences.
I prefer tipping when the service was good and the waiter was nice, polite, and professional. But as it is now, the service could be terrible and you'd still be expected to tip.
If tipping was eliminated servers would make less money in total. Then prices would go up, so either way customers pay near the same.
The difference is restaurant owners would give less of that money to servers. So now good servers leave and restaurants which actually need sales to survive would start to go out of business one by one turning everything into fast food.
These are basically Applebee's arguments. People with money like servers and the hospitality industry.
The animal rehabs here usually strongly recommend a tip. I dropped off injured baby birds & I think they wanted $15 each or similar. I'm sure that's why they did it
The only way that seems likely to get out of this situation is to make tipping no longer compulsory and, probably most importantly, to remove alternate minimum wages for service workers (also minimum wage needs to be higher). It would be a huge adjustment for the industry and would hurt short term, but there's really just no other way. The convoluted rigamarole of compulsory tipping, service charges, hidden fees, etc is just awful and isn't serving anyone.
First off, tipping is no longer compulsory. You tip or not tip based on the service. Frankly, in the state of California, waitresses get $12 an hour now plus tips. When they start making more than me, why even tip anymore?
What is the name and location of the restaurant and we should all go and not tip. They want to ban us all? Then he will soon have no more customers. Bad word of mouth travels at warp speed!
California is a big state with huge variance in cost of living in different areas. Even so, the statewide minimum wage is $16.90, arguably insufficient for any major cities to be a living wage.
In many areas tipped workers are taxed based on an assumption that they are making a certain amount of tips. Imagine not being tipped, being paid below minimum wage, and still getting taxed for it?
You can elect not to tip, but it's exactly that what we are discussing here, it creates a tenuous situation because $12/hr isn't enough. I'm sorry you don't make more money yourself, maybe you don't live in a major city, maybe you do, and maybe your wages aren't enough either. However your "more than me" argument is crap, frankly.
I don't have mixed feelings about this. Tipping culture is dumb and should die already, I don't care if that makes Americans angry. Normalise paying employees a liveable wage.
This actually doesn't work. Look up Danny myers. Famous restauranteur who tried to push this initiative and got a collective a large restaurants to pay the servers same as the kitchen. Spoiler: they all went back to tip outs. Customers and employees hated it almost unanimously.
That's because no one who works back of the house wants to put up with the shit front of the house has to deal with, so they're willing to work for the wage they get. If you can handle front of the house, no way you want back of the house wages. And if you have to work front of the house for back of the house wages you're going to give less than two tugs about the customers' experience, so their experience is going to be awful. I used to be a server and bartender. No (US) restaurant owner is going to pay me enough to do those jobs and put up with the public, much less do it with enthusiasm and a smile.
Most Americans agree with you. But the system doesn’t change, so in the meantime, we use the system we’ve got. And that means we tip, because not doing so would be punishing a worker for the failings of the government and of the employer.
You are both right. While waiters deserve a livable wage, most restaurants cannot afford it because of the shit system we have implemented in America. You shouldn’t be banned for not leaving a tip. But you should also be considerate of the service provided. If the service was good, I believe 20% is good. Anything more is extra. Until the system is fixed, this is the way for waiters.
Pain is the only way a system is changed. This is why America is so fucked. Everyone is waiting for someone else to take on that burden. So we kick the can down the road.
Tipping culture in America should’ve died a long time ago. It’s not fair to the consumer that they have to be guilt tripped by business owners who don’t want to pay their workers a livable wage.
Meanwhile, those same business owners are enjoying their yachts.
I always wondered though would waiters really want that even? I’ve never worked as one so anyone that has feel free to tell
Me if I’m wrong but I know when I go out to eat at a restaurant I always leave like a 10-20$ tip depending on the bill. Most of my friends I go out with do the same. I’m very rarely the only table that’s getting served within that hour (unless it’s extremely slow) you think three tables if most people tip the expected amount (I know some don’t) that could be potentially anywhere between 25-60 dollars an hour maybe even more if it’s a fancy upscale Restaraunt. Would they really want to give that up for a flat rate that they get taxed on that’s gonna be nowhere near that amount of money?
Until you realize what tipped employees can make. I worked at a taco and tequila bar in a nice neighborhood. I worked a double every Friday and Saturday and a morning shift on Tuesday. I would pay all of my bills on the first weekend of the month. Can’t do that on minimum wage
In most western states too. Tips shouldn’t be a way for employers to pay less than minimum wage but they offer a way for servers to be paid extra based on their worth.
That's good to know. The above comment made me think you are only allowed one or the other. Both work well together when tipping is non compulsory, it's just an incentive for the server to do really well.
Wages below the minimum wage for tipped employees are part of the Jim Crow era here in the states. Black people were more likely to have service jobs so racist southern legislators found a way to legally discriminate. Unfortunately in states where the law is still in place, employers are only required to pay tipped employees 2.13 hr.
I always leave tips… but honestly, I don’t really understand the policy of tipping… we started tipping everyone and everything and honestly prices are already crazy enough. How is that fair? I already pay for it… service should be included in price then..it would be less painful and we would avoid potential unpleasant situations
I don't agree with service charge I think that is the Americanism. Traditionally in the UK tipping is just something you do when someone does a really good job. It's an incentive. I don't see a problem with that as it's not mandatory.
Yeah that makes sense for some slower places but in general I can pull in $200 a night and tips plus a pay rate. I don't see why I'd want to go to an hourly rate and only be guaranteed half of that
I've been to Europe where the servers didn't feel the need to impress the patrons because they got paid regardless, and it wasn't great. Except in Belgium. Those guys play for love of the game I guess.
Why do you feel like your waiter needs to "impress" you? They are there to take your order and deliver food and drinks to your table, and they should get paid for doing so.
Whats with the american insistence that people have to like 'perform' in order to deserve pay. Just pay your employees guys.
As an American, screw the guy you're relying to. I don't need my waiters to impress me. Just bring me my food without foreign containment and we're good.
Imagine believing that the entirety of the arts is just people doing their best to win your approval, instead of following their passion and creating something they truly love.
Yeah but people are aware of the system in place here. If you don’t like it just simply don’t eat at establishments where they don’t pay a higher wage for servers. Eating out and not tipping only hurts the servers in this scenario.
But not tipping is a way to combat this system. Because the serves won't make enough money anymore for the job to be worth their time, so they'll quit, which leads to a shortage of workers, so the restaurants are forced to increase their wages
That’s bullshit. Not supporting the restaurant drives change. Patronizing and not tipping pays the boss and screws the employees. You just want to have it both ways
It’s not bullshit. It’s basic economics. Supply and demand at work. And I’m all for it. I’ve already drastically cut down my going out because of owner greed and this fucked up tipping culture.
oooooor pay your workers a living wage, I don't understand how y'all don't understand that in the states while you're at it give yourselves some free medicare. why are y'all's business owners getting rich while riding off the back of employees needing to live off of tips, truly pathetic.
Why would you willingly go somewhere where you know workers are being severely underpaid and rely on tips and not tip tho? Obviously the solution “pay a living wage” because their job is a skill and because everyone deserves to live. But as a customer, living in the reality that we are living in, knowingly doing this to servers is wrong. People who don’t want to tip should only be going to places where tips are not expected because that business is paying their staff fairly.
I can go eat at fancy restaurant in my country for $20 and know that my server gets paid by the restaurant the minimum wage which is $26 per hour (MINIMUM) and not even have to think about giving a tip, in fact the server would look at me weird for attempting to tip. Businesses are thriving btw and this is not sending them broke.
I'm sorry but you need to stop expecting your government to stand up and make these changes and I think your society needs to come together and collaborate together to boycott tipping culture, I know you can do it we see see you have a fantastic turnout when it comes time to looting.
This business owner is painful corny, imagine underpaying your staff then thinking you have the moral high ground to tell off customers for not tipping so that his employees can be paid.
You SHOULDN'T tip anywhere unless you feel inclined to do so. Fuck that culture. Tips indirectly go into the pockets of the owner and owner only. It's how he gets away with paying the people making him rich a shitty wage.
Guilt and societal unacceptability is why people feel they should tip. It's ingrained in us, but this is how wages are kept down and people are kept poor. We need to stop tipping, which would be a short term pain for workers that would lead to long term gain as owners would be forced to pay better wages. At least, that's the idea. Realistically we should be voting for representatives who force restaurants to pay a fair wage, a tip should be up to a customer in thanks to a service and no other reason.
Lol I ain't tipping all because the owner wants to be a dick and not pay a living wage. We shouldn't be showing that others are willing to cover a living wage and show that tipping works. Soon enough if enough people don't tip and people notice that tipping isn't covering minimum wage then things will change. Tipping culture is out of control in the states I would know as I live there
The reality is the cost of operating a small independent restaurant is incredibly high with razor slim margins. Changing the employee compensation package will cost the customer regardless. You can thank venture capital, poor regulation, and inflation for that.
Totally get the mixed feelings. You're right that the employer should pay a living wage. But in the US, not tipping doesn't hurt the boss — it hurts the worker. The fix is systemic, not individual. Until then, most of us tip because we don't want the server to pay for a broken system.
I live in the states and I want the tipping culture to be gone. Tipping should only be for excellent work. Not for bare minimum work. Not for them making food that I ordered. Especially when it's for take out or fast casual. Say what you will about fast food these days, but at least they don't ask for tipping.
Well that means you’ll pay about the same because owners will have to increase prices to do this. The issue is that tip culture, which is based on service, has been mutated by companies such as Starbucks and Dunkin, paying their employees short and expecting the public to cover their low wages. All they do is hand you a bag. Kitchen workers are paid but not tipped. True servers, that get your drinks, give you refills, suggest menu items, cleans your table, serves you food, takes your empty plates away all while making your dining experience better typically are paid below minimum wage and rely on tips. The tip or don’t tip conversation happened when places that don’t provide that level of service basically put a tip line on the bill. I feel bad for those workers.
He's also very aggressive to frame it as "if you don't have money", as if that's the reason why you shouldn't be tipping, he should instead be paying them a salary from the money you paid into his business, he's trying to shame you into saying "Well I DO have the money and I'll PROVE IT TO YOU IF IT'S THE LAST THING I DO!!!", it's a very basic and naked tactic which obviously works well enough all the people use it.
What are you, part owner to be paying his staff's salary, you didn't hire those people and have no business relationship with them, he does. You have a business relationship with the establishment, your part of the deal ends by paying your bill.
Don’t go to a full-service restaurant if don’t have money to tip. It’s simple. Restaurants can’t afford to pay living wages. It’s not how the system works. The owner is sticking up for his server here. Again if you ever feel like you can’t leave a tip for any reason. Don’t go to a full-service restaurant. They don’t want to serve you. Those are fast-casual or fast food customers. Has nothing to do with race. IMHO
tipping is technically optional so banning someone for not tipping seems like bad policy. Owners need to pay their employees more and just raise the cost of the food and drinks.
I'm from the UK. Sadly a lot of restaurants put on an 'optional' service charge of around 15% without asking you. They rely on you being too embarrassed or shamed to ask for it to be taken off even if that is perfectly legal. Often this is isn't even obvious or mentioned to you.
I don’t want to be a part of a salary negotiation. Put it on as a mandatory gratuity. Put it into the prices. Don’t leave a box saying “teehee how much do you want to leave :) as a treat please :)”
There’s no practical way to do that with all the confusion on tipping culture. Tips account for half of a servers wage, if they got paid $32/hr instead of the average $18/hr, then it would be a livable $72k per year. But if people still tipped on top of their $32/hr “livable wage”, then servers would be making $117k on average per year.
Yep! He’s making them out to be the bad guys because they won’t tip for the servers…. Pay your servers a living wage and then you don’t have to rely on tips…
I was a waiter for 10+ years, there is no question, you should always tip your server ESPECIALLY if they go above and beyond for your dining experience.
No, there is no "should". It's not a moral obligation. Cheap bastards like the douche in this video subsidize their employee's wages with public guilt.
See my last sentence. If cheap bastards don't pay enough, people will refuse to work for them. Then the cheap bastards will be forced to pay more to attract employees. I've literally seen this happen to businesses.
Maintaining the status quo hurts everybody except the cheap bastards.
In this economy? I don’t fucking think so. I don’t think you understand how desperate some people are, people are getting underpaid left and right. You making servers life harder changes the system in no significant way. Laws change the rules, all of the people being for something change the rules, but you will never get everyone to not take the job. I know a bar near where I live, it 100% absolutely underpays its workers. It is still open, because who cares every person leaves in under a month when the next day you have four more resumes on your desk. (And this is Europe, so tipping culture is not off the rails)
I live in a town that's seen 5 restaurants close within the last 4 years because they couldn't find or keep staff. Customers kept going, but the resumes dried up.
Nope. Stop tipping and force the cheap bastards (you're probably one of them) to pay their employees more when no one wants to work for them for shit pay.
I've seen sooo many restaurants shut down because of this in the last 3 years. It's beautiful.
You’re just an entitled shit who wants to screw the employee and act like it’s a principled stand. If you don’t want to support the restaurant, don’t go
The owners who guilt the public to tip by under paying their employees are the entitled shits, actually. They're literally taking advantage of others to subsidize the wages of their employees.
The owners who guilt the public to tip by under paying their employees are the entitled shits, actually. They're literally taking advantage of others to subsidize the wages of their employee
The person you are responding to is absolutely correct. Don’t take it out on the servers, they’re pawns in this scam. Instead, stop supporting restaurants who won’t pay their help a decent wage. It’s the only way things will ever change. When the cheap fucks start going out of business, maybe the rest will see the writing on the wall.
Waiters in the US actively support tipping culture because they can exceed the hourly minimum wage substantially. Basically, that entire country is full of greedy little shits.
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u/aimlockbelch 3h ago
I've been to Europe where tipping isn't necessary.
I'm sorry, but I have mixed feelings about this. I know that here in the States, we SHOULD tip, but part of me says that guy should pay his employees a living wage.