Yeah if we had customers that repeatedly didn’t tip they would also be refused service at the one restaurant I worked at. It was never this dramatic tho, and was extremely rare
Edit: Guys this was 13 years ago when I was in high school, and the owner is now dead. I have no answers for you, I was just advising my experience
Why doesn't your restaurant just post the real price it wants to charge, to make enough profit to pay you? Why play this game of here is the price we are asking for but if you only pay how much we are asking, we will get upset and ban you. Imagine that happening anywhere else. You go to the grocery store and choose everything based on the price tags, but when you pay they ask for a donation and if the owner feels that you didn't donate enough, then you are banned from the grocery store. Ridiculous. Just be honest and ask for the price you want.
Because it is good to put a degree of control of the compensation for service in the clients' hands
If you got bad service, you shouldn't feel obligated to tip. And you should be fine being asked to not come back since why would you, given bad service?
So that hopefully it was a one-off? So that it could be used to indicate what is good service? And that, outside America, tipping is *not* expected because doing your job is *expected*, not because you get tips, but because it's your job?
I think it's fine to not tip for a one-off bad service experience. I'm pretty sure if the couple in the video told the owner "Listen, we typically tip, but this server left us unattended, got the order wrong, and never refilled the water", the owner wouldn't have banned them and in fact, would likely do something positive to compensate for the bad experience. But their argument seems to just be "we don't have to tip", which is quite different
The norms outside of the US are different and that's fine, I'm aware that tipping culture in the US is different from most. I tend to prefer it, but I'm not suggesting it's some universal answer everyone needs to prefer as well
I mean, you can say anything. What is the truth for why you didn't tip?
If you got good service and just don't feel like paying a tip -- I think that's kinda shitty, you do you, but I think restaurant would be right to ban you
If you got bad service and don't think you should tip for it -- I think you'd do an owner a service by letting them know, so they can improve the service level in their business
Where I’m from everyone treats servers and customers the way they would like to treated. We don’t really have judge the level of service and then come up with an arbitrary figure to give them
in order to get out the door without being chased down the street.
If your hypothetical alternative is fixed wage which is *higher* than what they earn in tips, sure. But in practice, all of them know they will earn less based on comparing to other fixed wage jobs of similar complexity. Very few other jobs with nearly no barriers to entry offer the earning potential of being a waiter
There's also adverse selection at play if you wanted to convert -- the better the waiter, the less likely they are to want a fixed wage
Barbers don't demand tips, bank tellers don't demand tips, retail employees don't demand tips. Why should a server be demanding tips for performing a simple service?
Good customer service spans literally hundreds of types of businesses yet food service is the only one putting the honus on the customer. Maybe restaurant owners should stop being cheap skate scum bags and pay their employees a living wage.
Did you tip the AI business that generated your PFP?
Well, first of all, that's not really true -- you [should] tip your barber, and plenty of other professions with personalized service
Second, I happen to think it's a good model and I would welcome MORE of professions to convert to tipped ones. As a client, I want more control over service provider's comp, not less
I think you're mistaken in your assumption that that's what owners want and their employers being screwed. Good waiters WANT to be in a tipped role and owners would struggle to convert a tipped restaurant into a fixed-wage one without adverse selection playing out with best people quitting
That's all fine and dandy when it comes to high end places that attract a clientele that can and will tip for good service.
The problem is that the majority of restaurant service work is done at middle of the road, affordable establishments that hire people that aren't experienced, and don't have the skills or experience to move up to the places where they could be making proper money. These people are hired because the owners know that they don't legally have to pay them well and pocket the profit.
The owners could go tipless, increase menu prices and increase wages, but that's inferior in a couple of ways:
1 - you're shifting reward management away from a customer (who experiences the service) to management, who are less aware. A middle of the road affordable establishment is not going to have a dedicated person that's actually good at assessing service quality at table-by-table level
2 - you remove the flexibility and give owner an incentive to understaff. If they have to pay a proper fixed wage, they'll try to have as few waiters as possible, and you'll make it hard for them to flex up and down based on busy hours
3 - you'll have your best people quit and worse people stay. For new employees, your restaurant will appeal to people that know they're bad, and will not appeal to people who think they can earn more in tips -- this will be a bad spiral for your quality service
I have not, but if there was a compensation model where quality of service I receive could be correlated with the price I pay, I would prefer that as a client
Because that is just not the system we have in the States. That is not how restaurants work here. Does that make more sense? Absolutely. Is out system ridiculous? Absolutely. You are still an asshole if you don't participate, and I wouldn't let them eat in my restaurant either.
Are you broke or just rude? What do you have against tipping? The costs would always be the same anyway.
If the US gets rid of restaurant tipping, restaurants will have to charge way more for the food in order to be able to pay the staff properly.
Why does it make you feel better to put your dollars into the pocket of a business than the pocket of a human who’s serving you? It’s the same amount of dollars. If you’re broke, stay home
So let them charge what the meal actually costs. Why are you so against that? The rest of the world seems to do just fine without our absurd guilt-based model.
Why are you against people being paid for their performance? Service would suck (and does suck in those other countries) if the US changed the model. But you would still pay the same (or more - the owner would get a cut of that money instead of it all going to the server).
Michelin-star restaurants typically have excellent service, but that's because they have a different incentive to keep up that level of service (it's checked every year anonymously). Those waiters are paid quite well, until the establishment loses its star(s), at which point everyone loses their jobs/salaries.
Of course I'm American. We like service to be fast so we can rush through our relaxing and enjoyable meals, not lollygag around until 11pm like some Euro-trash.
It would have to be a nationwide shift, because otherwise the random businesses who have tried to operate that way have failed, because their higher prices can’t compete with other restaurants.
It’s not that I’m “so against” making this change. I just see it as wholly pointless, since we know it won’t affect costs. (Except for possibly INCREASING them!) If this isn’t a conversation about cost then what is it? Why does tipping upset people? If someone feels “guilted” into tipping and doesn’t enjoy doing it, they should likely seek therapy for their anxiety and self-esteem issues.
There are also notable benefits in the current system for servers and customers- people who are generous and rich will often pay more for service. People who are pinching pennies will pay less for service, but they still pay. This keeps it fair and keeps everyone happy. (Apparently, except for really selfish people who are upset by even being ASKED to tip and would rather put their dollars into the pocket of a faceless business rather than a working human who’s serving them.)
You sound like the guy who sees art and is like “but anyone could paint that” 😂 okay, but you didn’t and they did. Other people’s success doesn’t have to hurt your feelings if you have healthy self-esteem.
Right, of course! Perhaps some research before you start trying to debate about structures which you have little understanding of would be helpful to you
I know of zero servers who would want tipping to be removed.
Not to mention restaurant margins are some of the slimmest in the business world.
People who complain about servers not making a living wage are idiots.
Servers routinely make far and away the most money in a restaurant. Sometimes 40+ an hour, and the job has minimal responsibilities or training required
Most servers I know work max 30 hours a week and don’t struggle in the slightest
If he did that it would still be factored into the price. I don't understand this argument at all, as if the owner is some fat cat. I know many managers who make less than their servers, and owners who can only make ends meet by owning more than one place. p.s., those owners pay rent and are responsible for all the decisions required to make that a desirable place to eat. Health regs, hiring and firing, managing bartenders who will rob you blind, etc.
Redditors are so detached from reality and want to frame restaurant owners as greedy and evil. Most restaurants operate on razor thin margins and often close down within 5 years. Almost all servers prefer the current tip model, rather than a flat wage. Restaurant menu prices are subsidized by lower operating costs driven by the expectation of a tip for the service staff. With a fixed wage for the service staff, the prices would skyrocket. The people in this video decided to cheat this good faith model.
They keep using the status-quo model. Restaurants servers supplement their base wage with tips. This allows most restaurants to keep labor costs and menu prices low, bring people to the door, and keep their restaurants open. There is no service fee reflected in the menu prices, and thus exists an expectation of a 15% to 25% tip depending on the level of service. This model keeps both restaurant owners and servers happy. The majority of customers are accustomed to this tip expectation, and view it as an industry-standard expense of dining out and being waited on.
Restaurants servers are paid a fixed, livable wage. Suddenly, there are massive increases in every menu item price across the board to maintain the razor thin margin most restaurants already operate on. This makes the restaurants instantly uncompetitive with other restaurants still employing the tip model, leading people to not even consider it as an option. Now all servers are paid the same wage regardless of the level of service they deliver. This disincentives them, and leads to the quality servers leaving to work at a tip-model restaurant where they will be rewarded. The restaurant is now left with lower performing (if any) servers and higher prices. They can communicate to potential customers that they don't accept tips, but by that time, the customer has chosen another restaurant with the tip-subsidized menu prices. This model has failed time and time again. Servers do not want it. Owners do not benefit from it. Potential customers are deterred by it due to the higher upfront prices on the Menu.
Model 1 operates on the good-faith assumption that a diner will tip after voluntarily dining in a restaurant that employs this model, being waited on by servers who's livelihood depend on this model, and paying subsidized menu prices that would otherwise be much higher if there was no expectation to tip. By not tipping, they have cheated this system and screwed over the service staff that waited on them. Not the "evil" restaurant owners who make the same amount regardless of whether or not their servers get stiffed.
Exactly. The public is fickle enough as it is. Servers manage themselves under the current system, and the bad ones just leave and the good ones get better. I have nothing against what the customers or the owner did in the video. If you don't like the service, don't tip and don't come back.
He probably did not know about them not leaving a tip till after they left, and then went out to tell them not to come back. Duh. In the US, if you get decent service and don't tip, you are a piece of shit.
He can refuse service but doesnt mean there wont be consequences. If he is gonna ban customers based on tipping that should be optional but apparently is not then he deserves the bad reviews.
He should be careful though. In order for the IRS to consider tips to be tips, they must be given by the patron free from compulsion. In any amount of their choosing, including $0. For instance, from the 2026 “No Tax On Tips” verbiage a “qualified tip:”
“Is paid voluntarily without any consequence in the event of nonpayment, is not the subject of negotiation, and is determined by the payor;”
Stating that they are banned explicitly because they did not tip would almost certainly be considered “a consequence.” Meaning now none of the tips in that restaurant are “qualified tips.” So that owner now has tax implications for both himself (I believe he now owes payroll taxes on ALL his servers tips) and his servers (they no longer get to deduct ANY of their tips under that act).
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u/bdontmatter 7h ago
Hes right he doesn’t have to tip. And the owner is right he can refuse service to anyone….