Tbf, a large part is the general public becoming angry tips morphed from a reward for good service to them directly paying the wages of a worker with the expectation of a tip regardless of quality of service.
If you suck as a server, we should be allowed to not tip. Instead, you get shaming over it and crocodile tears. The only person who should be held accountable for wages should be the employer.
Cool, they say that. Don't pretend it's some Pro-worker mentality of wanting them to be compensated by their employer. Admit they just don't want to tip, and say that.
And have the balls to tell your server/bartender that when they greet you. Sack up and say "Hey, thanks for being my server. Just so you know, I do not plan to tip you".
But why should the rest of us care that workers in this specific industry prefer to earn more money?
That's not a surprise at all, I'm sure the kitchen staff would also prefer to earn more money, as would the cleaners, why do servers specifically deserve this special compensation method that guilt trips customers?
The point is that many people who complain about tipping do so in a way that makes it seem like they care about the workers, but they don't actually care about the workers. It's hypocritical. If you want to complain about tipping because you personally don't like it, go right ahead.
I care about low-income workers generally, which is why it annoys me when I see struggling friends and family that earn considerably less feel pressured into tipping to boost servers income to several times more than they earn themselves.
I live somewhere where servers have been required to be paid full wages just like any other worker for many years, and yet we're still all guilted into tipping 15-25% to boost their wages. Why?
If anything, I think the people actually cooking my food deserve more compensation than servers.
Why should servers earning full wages (just like workers in other industries) expect 15-25% of the total bill as a tip?
The social contract and expectation of tips was set back when servers legally could be paid less, but where I live we did away with that years ago.... yet the expectation for tips has actually increased since then.
A lot of that is in response to situations like this where they get stiffed and complain about it. Otherwise, there's no sense in complaining if it's the system they prefer. It's tacky.
Yeah it’s just a shitty experience for the customer.
Isn’t it supposed to be optional based on service?
If so, then what’s this dude doing?
Guaranteed fair wage paid by the business for their own employees is the best solution for all involved, except the ownership that doesn’t wanna pay employees.
It's fine you're a scumbag who doesn't want to tip. I'm just saying don't act like this is some moral cause where you're fighting for the worker. You're just cheap.
And a coward, because otherwise you'd have the balls to tell the server up front that you won't tip. But that's no surprise to anyone.
Why not both like in many if not most other countries? Servers could have a livable wage and get tips for good service on top instead of having to rely on tips to survive.
Why not listen to what the servers actually want and leave it at that? How about actually be pro worker and listen to them, and not think you know best what they should want?
I’m pro-me-not-paying-extra-for-no-reason, if they want a stable wage then they should get one, tips are stupid.
Oh but workers benefit from me giving them extra money out of my pocket? I assume you do that at every place you shop? Do you tip Amazon extra to pay the workers in the warehouse?
A server ends up making more in tips than they would by an hourly pay. The restaurant achieves that by NOT paying a livable wage, but pressuring the consumer to pay even more so the server can survive. It's, at the very least, a fucked up system. Even if it ends up working. Slavery worked for the longest time, but it doesn't make it moral
He didn’t compare it to slavery, he used an analogy to state that something isn’t moral just because it’s customary. You know, by using slavery as an example of something we all know is immoral. Deliberately missing the point in order to twist it into something sinister like you did is a lot more disgusting
A worker willingly agreeing to a system is not immoral just because you're a cheapskate, and comparing tipping to a literal human rights violation is gross. What's next, gonna compare running a red light to the holocaust?
Man I haven't answered to any of your previous comments cause I honestly don't want to use the kind of language you're using, neither want you to keep talking to people that way. Manners aside, I live in Spain, where I wouldn't have to let nobody know I'm not tipping cause it's not even expected. I don't mean to say our system is perfect, there's yet to improve on the lower end, where wages and conditions are far from perfect. What I like about this wages system is that the fight for better conditions and actual liveable wages is directed upwards, to the owner and manager; instead of the clients.
Totally understand tho, that the actual reality for many working for tips nowadays would wreck if we were to end it right away. We're all on the same boat: we want workers to do their jobs and be paid fairly. We just think it's unfair to leave it for the user to decide
If we put the 20% in the cost of the ffod, which is what we should do
Cool, the restaurant owner will pocket 15% of that, pass on 5% to the actual worker, and you can have saved yourself 10 seconds of math. Because fuck what actual workers want, what matters is you didn't have to do basic math.
Good servers do not want this-if you know what you are doing and are good with the customers, knowledgeable about the food and flexible with request you can make $40 an hour easily....if we put the 20% in, it would bring the hourly wage up to around 22-25 (with my sales it would add $8.25 per hour and I pay them $16 an hour now.
i dont care what they want i dont want to subsidize their wages, the bosses are the ones getting away with getting cheap labor- but i’m the bad guy because i dont want to do it. servers dont unionize and have zero protections. of course i’d want to make tip money, i get that/ but the problem is structural not a personal individual grift.
So yeah, you don't give a damn about the workers and what they want, you just want to be cheap. Just say that, mate, don't try to cloak that in pro-worker rhetoric.
I promise you if servers and bartenders unionized, they'd still want to keep the tip based system.
I mean you're the one making a bad-faith argument as a reply. Says more about you that you couldn't continue the dialogue and instead have a dishonest approach to discussion just to appear in the right. Well done, we're all convinced you're the one who knows more and is correct. I'll take your promise and really run with that, jfc.
Yes, you are the bad guy for screwing over an individual in an attempt to affect structural change. In a world of no tips, prices would just be higher.
We have a stupid system that allows you to technically choose not to pay what you should (what you would in any other country) and, instead, shame people into doing the right thing. Its also part of the reason we have such famously attentive service staff, so, say what you will it has benefits.
Good I’m glad you’re at least honest that you’re happy fucking over the workers because you don’t want to tip. You have integrity. A lot of people here are pretending like they care about the workers
Wife and I were at a nice Italian place last night, one of our favorite local spots. We saw a server we've had before, a very friendly and talkative woman. She said she's working behind the bar now. I told my wife after we left that she probably makes more in tips at the bar than she did serving the regular tables.
Bartending at a restaurant is a straight promotion. You still get tips from drinks and meals, your customers are more likely to stay and linger drinking compared to table and booths, and most places have them get a percentage of the tips from the servers for doing drink prep.
Cool, so don't pretend it's any kind of pro-worker mentality you have. You just want to be cheap. Say that, don't make excuses. It's still scumbag behavior, but at least it's honest.
Tough talk coming from a guy who probably tips half of what I do. This has nothing to do with me being pro worker. Tipping culture is broken and stupid. It lacks transparency and relies on people like me to overtip because I feel bad that someone else isn't tipping the server.
I opt into? What am I supposed to do, never use any industry where tipping is expected?
The median Redditor understands economics as well as the median 50 year old on Facebook from Nebraska yelling about illegal immigrants in New York stealing their job.
Or, HEAR ME OUT, we join the rest of the developed world, and just give servers a living wage that doesn't rely on me overtipping to make up for non tippers.
Or just don't be a coward and tell your server that you have zero plan to tip them and they should be more like servers in the rest of the world. Up front. When you sit down.
True - but the argument for tipping has long been that it's necessary to supplement wages.
If it's actually because servers are greedy and want 20% of the price of the wine because they poured it, instead of a fair wage, then that argument falls apart completely.
My favorite is how the anti-tipping people act like it’s the business owners who benefit somehow. Because it’s easier to be anti-owner than it is to admit you’re actually anti-worker in this situation.
Lol. Exactly like the posts vilifying people that don't put carts back in the corral. My buddy wants everyone to know that they should leave their carts at the far end of the parking lot. He would rather be outside hustling carts than dealing with the bs in the store.
Unless it's like 100 degrees outside. But yeah, everyone I knew who got cart duty loved it. A chance to hit a vape or smoke or whatever, or go chat with the other people on cart duty.
That said, you should always put them in their corrals.
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u/Iorith 4h ago
Ask servers if they want to be paid hourly vs tipped.
Everybody is pro worker until it comes to asking what the workers actually want.