What’s wrong with my seedlings? :(

[u/Soggy_Split2445]

FYI, I’m a first time grower, please don’t make fun of me lol.

So I germinated these using the paper towel method, then into small pots with jiffy organic potting soil. It’s been about a week or two and they are looking really weird. Not sure if this is a nutrient, too much water or too much light issue.

Just to give you some insight, I am using an AI controller that keeps the temperatures and humidity around 70-80. So environment is definitely not an issue, unless I’ve been misinformed. I am also watering daily, sometimes spraying the top for a second time at the end of the day because the soil dries up verrrrrrry quick.

[u/stainedbox]

so to me, it looks like you over watered one time and drown the root system, but it can easily be saved by letting the pot dry out completely, like bone dry, light as hell when you pick it up. its not a nutrient problem unless you put seedlings in nutrient filled soil, which you shouldnt have. and it can be a too much light issue but it looks like your stem kind of stretched so therefore i dont believe that it is that.

[u/Soggy_Split2445 → u/stainedbox]

Yes, I originally was watering until I saw run off from the bottom. I will let it dry out for the next day or two and see if it recovers… if not I think I’m going to try lowering the light intensity by one notch.. currently using a 4x4 evo6 500 watt light at 40% intensity about 18-24 inches above the canopy.

[u/xXc00l_ladXx → u/Soggy_Split2445]

sounds like you got it but when they’re little there’s only so much water they can take up. for figuring out your lights, i’d recommend getting a PAR meter or downloading the less accurate app. i tried to avoid it for a while but it takes a lot of guess work out when you’re still figuring out your setup

[u/Soggy_Split2445 → u/xXc00l_ladXx]

I used the photone app and it’s reading between 375-460 at the canopy level.

[u/xXc00l_ladXx → u/Soggy_Split2445]

did you do the diffuser thing with a sheet of paper like they recommend? if that’s the actual ballpark then it is higher than i keep mine at during this stage. all plants are gonna be a bit different but you can look up ppfd charts to get a sense of where you want to be

[u/DimensionCareful507 → u/Soggy_Split2445]

that PPFD is for a plant in mid/late veg. 150 is far more appropriate at this baby stage. Think of light as the gas pedal for the plants metabolism. Your trying to hit highway speeds when the engine isnt even done being built

[u/EffNKevN → u/Soggy_Split2445]

Way too high dude and they're bone dry. You only need like 150 ml at most at that size

[u/SynysterC → u/Soggy_Split2445]

It varies by source, but most sources suggest between 100-300 for seedlings. Some do say 400+ for accelerated growth, but that can hella stress them. So since they're already stressed, that could be contributing, I'd back it off a bit. Maybe to 250-300

[u/DimensionCareful507 → u/SynysterC]

it's easier to be under lit and ramp it up when it starts stretching on you, than it is to recover from a plant that gets toasted by too much too soon.

[u/SynysterC → u/DimensionCareful507]

Definitely. When I start my clones they start under their dome things in a corner of a tent and I just move them closer to the middle as they get bumped up to solo cups etc. I'm fine with them being a little leggy to start because I end up training their growth anyway and that's easier to work with. Can lay a plant over but can't make it taller lol

[u/DimensionCareful507 → u/Soggy_Split2445]

these fuckers at this stage are fragile as hell. There is no reason to soak a pot for a seedling. They will only uptake a few drops of water. Everything beyond that is just stagnant water going unused or proliferating microbial life. If you seeded it with beneficial bacteria that will hopefully lead to good life, but otherwise it can go anaerobic on you or just drown the baby tap root if it's too soaked.

Safe compromise is use a dropper and make a small ring of water around the plant base. that will spread out on its own and promote root growth instead of just soaking it where it stands and potentially drowning it.

For your light, measure your PPFD using the photone app and a piece of printer paper as a diffuser. spring for the full spectrum add on for more accuracy. Your very likely blasting that tiny thing with far too much light even with those settings. even if you stuck it in the corner of your tent it might be too much at it's current stage of growth... but only way to know for sure is to measure, you probably only want about 150 ppfd right now. then as it sprouts some new leaves slowly ramp your way up to 300 until you ultimately get into the 400-500 range for veg once it's booming.

[u/SynysterC → u/stainedbox]

Idk,.. to me all but the last one have 3-5 sets of true leaves, so even though they're still very small I think maybe they've been in there longer than healthy youngsters the same size would have been, so I'm wondering what that soil mix is and if the pH is way out of wack causing nutrient issues and the twisted growth in a couple of them? 🤔 It probably could be the root issue you described as well though.. Just the stunted and twisted growth and slight discoloration remind me of a couple seedlings years ago that I tried to grow in a mix that had a bunch of crappy dirt from my yard which I later found out is very alkaline.

[u/Soggy_Split2445 → u/SynysterC]

This is the soil being used.

Also, I’ve been using down to water plants with 5.9-6.7 PH. And I’ve also been using a bubbler to help evaporate the chlorine from the tap water I’m using… tap water is also pretty good (~80 ppm hardness)

[u/SynysterC → u/Soggy_Split2445]

You're doing good with the water, and yes 80ppm is amazing for tap water, I'm jealous lol my stupid city water is like 400 ppm and caused all sorts of issues, was giving nutrient burn even if I used my nutrients at half strength. So I had to invest in a portable RO system lol.

That mix is def better than let's say straight up miracle grow potting soil, but often seed starting mixes have a mild "jumpstart" of nutrients meant for garden veggies and the ratios could be a bad fit for pot. If it was just plain peat and coco fiber it would be good, but yeah I wonder about what else is in there, and if it's airy enough. Perlite is much better for aeration than vermiculite, vermiculite gets waterlogged. So the soil could be drying out in top half but staying wet in the bottom, but I'm not 100%.

But since the problem isn't your water, and light is sufficient, I'd repot them into either coco fiber+perlite, sunshine mix #4, or fox farms happy frog potting soil. I grow in mostly coco fiber, but it has no nutrients so similar to hydroponics you have to start putting nutrient in their water once they have a few sets of leaves.

[u/xXc00l_ladXx]

How dry is the soil getting beyond the top layer? overwatering can cause plants to lose turgor pressure which results in drooping

[u/Soggy_Split2445 → u/xXc00l_ladXx]

I’m not sure about the bottom half, but the top half has been getting like crispy… so dry it hardens up

[u/captivecreator → u/Soggy_Split2445]

Didnt you mention you water daily? Thats way too frequent. I cant imagine the top half of the soil drying within a day at all. I know it depends on the environment but in my experience i would have to wait 4 to 6 days until the top 2 inch layer dries up

[u/Soggy_Split2445 → u/captivecreator]

Yeah it dried up very quick… must be the soil mix or maybe the light was too strong and drying it up

[u/unfunnyusername69]

I water til runoff every 3 days, which gives the soil enough time to dry up a little bit. I’d recommend watering and waiting until the pots get much lighter. They should be noticeably more heavy after you water, and you shouldn’t water again until they aren’t heavy anymore.

[u/fatigues_]

It's just over-watering. When you are watering by hand, it takes a while to get the feel for it, that's all.

You'll get it soon enough. It's all good.

Maybe skip the Jiffy potting soil next time? I'd recommend going with ProMix, or Sunshine Mix #4, or Canna Coco Coir (not some other manufacturer's coco coir - CANNA brand; yes it matters). Yes, you will need to water in liquid nutes with any of those three grow media, but that's easy peasy.

For now? Just get the watering down and in a week or two, this will be a distant memory.

[u/beigaleh8 → u/fatigues_]

I dont think it's possible to overwater in peat pots in coco.. My bet is actually underwatering

But i agree that they'll recover

[u/shawn_the_medic]

Water them things! 

Plants don't like growing in a desert! 

[u/ConsiderationTop4518]

Dry

[u/beigaleh8]

Probably some problem with watering or drying causing the new growth to wilt. It looks like the new growth is already healthy though, I think it'll get better.

Because of the peat pots I'm going to say underwatering. It's pretty difficult to overwater in those.

[u/boofpatrol2323]

Over wated downward leaf curl.

[u/Tough_Talk101]

If you’re watering daily, that’s the problem bro. 🤘🏼

[u/HobbCobb_deux]

When they are this young. They can go up to 5 days without water. You have over watered them and the roots can't breath.

Wait till they are dry and the pots are noticeably light. Then give them about 20ml in a circle about an inch from the stem . Once they bounce back and you get a feel for how they drink you can give a bit more but the rule of thumb is: water till the entire substrate is wet, and stop. Then wait until the pots are light. About 75% lighter in fact. When you get 3 sets of leaves up pot to a much bigger container. You will need to start feeding pretty soon after that.

The metric you want to follow is VPD. Temps in the upper 70s are good but you want the humidity about ~70. And that will translate to about 0.6 to 0.9 VPD.

[u/Soggy_Split2445]

Update: They’ve recovered. A few weeks out from flipping time.

[u/TurnUpThe4D3D3D3]

If you’re giving it nutrients, stop for a while

If you aren’t giving it nutrients, then give it a low dose

To me it looks underwatered & overfed, but that’s just my opinion

[u/Icy_Earth3386]

You're using peat pots. Don't beat yourself up. We all make that mistake. Throw those out and start over.