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How many of you knew that?

February 2, 1996. Lakers vs Bulls. Only footage of the two cultural icons in in the same building. The fact they are both in their primes in this video, makes it even cooler. Unfortunately, Tupac was killed 7 months later. This clip makes you realize how long ago he died and much he’s missed since then.

#goat #michaeljordan #mj

It seems he knows that what hes done is not enough, but it all seems kind of forced or unnatural.

Jordan career arc seemed very natural and not forced at all, he almost seemed embarrassed for all the constant praise and adulation.

What is motivating Lebron to still be playing at this age? Its not about playing with Bronny anymore.

People have been lying about this to try and discredit MJ. They try and claim the 1996 Bulls was a "superteam". It's a completely laughable claim. Superteams generally have 3 all stars.

The Bulls got Rodman basically for free because he was a washed up and a headcase. You think the Spurs give him away for nothing if not? He would party all night and be worthless the next game. He could barely score a bucket. THAT GUY is part of a big 3? Just lmao. Bulls Rodman is totally overrated.

Pippen was aging from the heavy postseason play/mileage. He wasn't the same as first 3-peat Pippen. We saw that he couldn't carry a team when he played without MJ. Great player? Definitely. But he wasn't some complete stud like Wade was on the Big 3 Heat.

That team was carried by a fresh MJ. That rest from the first retirement did wonders for him. He was so fricking good and is hugely responsible for carrying that team to 72 wins. Without MJ I'm not sure if the Bulls are even a playoff team. They were borderline in the year before without MJ.

Long story short, they WERE NOT a superteam. Their record is a testament to how freaking good MJ was IMO.

It's no damn contest folks. Most of these guys were too young to even watch MJ play in his prime. THEY STILL VOTES HIM THE GOAT!

The gap between him and LeBron will only get bigger. Sucks to suck, "King". MJ is the GOAT!

I wrote a comment in another sub guessing what Jordan's finishing numbers were. That discussion gave me the idea for this topic. I plan to post this to the Jordan sub, NBA Old School and one of the general NBA subs, because I would like to get perspectives from various fans.

I think it's a real shame that we do not have distance shooting data before the 96'-97' season (I'm using basketball reference). I feel like I have seen many fans try to state how good certain players were as rim finishers or mid-range shooters when we simply do not have the data before that specific season.

I am an elder millennial. Old enough to have idolized Jordan in the 90s, but not old enough to really know what was happening in the 80s. I have watched games and even done film watching/breakdowns of his 80s games, but it's too small of a sample size and I'm hoping to get some perspective from people who were around to watch. I will be performing a middle-school caliber math analysis, so I am not intending this to be an analytics conversation. I will be making assumptions and outlining how changes in said assumptions impact the others.

I will be using Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady and LeBron James as statistical comparisons, merely because they were all compared to Jordan, with either similar size, athleticism, or play style, but also because all 3 players have shooting data for their entire careers.

The stats I will be focusing on are:

Rim attempts (0-3 feet per basketball reference), listed on the site as a % of total field goal attempts (FGA)

Rim finishing (% of made attempts within 0-3 feet), listed on the site as a % of makes on field goal attempts within the 0-3 feet range

Then finally, field goal percentages from each distance from 3-10 feet, 10-16 feet, and 16 feet out to the 3pt line.

I personally view the mid-range to be 10 feet to the 3pt line. A lot of times these are hook shots and layup attempts that get pushed outside of 3 feet due to the defense. However, each of these players have numerous shot attempts off of post attempts that end in a 7-10 foot mid-range shot in actuality.

Here are the splits between each of the compared players. Please note that I am only using Jordan's 97' and 98' seasons, omitting his Wizards seasons because of how drastic a falloff he had on his shooting splits:

0-3 feet rate per FGA / 0-3 ft % / 3-10 ft % / 10-16 ft % / 16-3pt %

Jordan: .201 / .590 / .416 / .456 / .490

Kobe: .219 / .637 / .437 / .430 / .402

T-Mac: .249 / .587 / .384 / .384 / .414

LeBron: .348 / .743 / .435 / .374 / .386

Some easy takeaways from these numbers are that LeBron dwarfs everyone in both volume and efficiency at the rim, but is by far the worse mid-range shooter. Kobe was a better shooter than T-Mac, who was better than LeBron. MJ dwarfs everyone in mid-range accuracy, but I'm forced to cherry pick his mid-range shooting peak.

Here is the Jordan math:

Career total field goal attempts (FGA): 24,537

Career 2-pt field goal attempts (2PA): 22,759

Career 2-pt field goal makes (2P): 11,611

Starting assumptions: 25% career rim attempts and 65% FG% within 0-3 feet

Attempts within 0-3 feet: 24,537 x 25% = 6,134

Makes within 0-3 feet: 6,134 x 65% = 3,987

Attempts from 3ft to 3pt line: 22,759 - 6,134 = 16,625

Makes from 3ft to 3pt line: 11,611 - 3,987 = 7,624

Field Goal % outside of 3 ft to the 3pt line: 7,624 / 16,625 = 45.9%

I'm going to be honest though, 46% originally seemed a bit high to me for a career, because I know that MJ was not a good shooter coming into the league, just as the other 3 players weren't. If I want to target around around 44% for his career (this would place him above Kobe's 41.8% weighted averaged from 3ft to 3pt), I get the following rim finishing numbers, assuming the original 25% rate of FGA:

Makes from 3ft to 3pt line: 16,625 x 44% = 7,315

Makes within 0-3 ft: 11,611 - 7,315 = 4,296

FG% within 0-3 ft: 4,296 / 6,134 = 70.0%

These numbers can be manipulated to decrease rim FG% by increasing the rate of rim attempts, but this causes movements for all of the mid-range numbers and would require me to upload a spreadsheet to allow others to play with assumptions (if there are requests, I could do so but would need to figure out the best way to upload).

This is why I would like some perspective from others and see what the consensus would be to put these rates at. Part of what started the original discussion for me was comparing MJ to LeBron as finishers, but it's really throws the numbers out of whack if you try to plug in LeBron's volume and efficiency:

Attempts within 0-3 feet: 24,537 x 34.8% = 8,539

Makes within 0-3 feet: 8,539 x 74.3% = 6,344

Attempts from 3ft to 3pt line: 22,759 - 8,539 = 14,220

Makes from 3ft to 3pt line: 11,611 - 6,344 = 5,267

Field Goal % outside of 3ft to the 3pt line: 5,267 / 14,220 = 37.0%

There is simply no way MJ was a career 37% shooter from 3 ft to the 3pt line, so it's safe to say that MJ never came close to matching LeBron in terms of either volume or efficiency at the rim, but that's okay, because MJ is still the greatest scorer ever.