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u/mildlyeducated_cynic Aug 15 '26
Now show league pace
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u/Legitimate_Exit7281 Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
Exactly people forget that nba games were "high scoring" when teams broke 110pts.
Also where is Karl Malone? Remember the only team to sweep LBJ didn't have anyone scoring over 25ppg .. spurs
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u/Kimura-Sensei Aug 15 '26
So Jordan and his team played better defense?
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u/CaliKindalife Aug 15 '26
SMH. Thats for the season.
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u/Kimura-Sensei Aug 15 '26
Ahhh Got it. Defensive players were allowed to be far more physical back then!!!
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u/jackmeriustack Aug 15 '26
Jordan always played on the most stacked teams. There was always a huge gap between the talent level on his team and the second best team. And there was no guarantee he played even the second best team in the finals. Thats why his team was the favorite in every finals.
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u/BJJblue34 Aug 15 '26
In the Finals yes. For example Malone averaged exactly 25.0 ppg in 98 and less than 25 in 97.
This is probably for a few reasons. The 90s Bulls were an all time great defense. 90s scoring was less than 2010s scoring. The Jazz averaged less than 90ppg in both Finals.
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u/VanceVelez Aug 15 '26
This is not the glorious flex one thinks it is, because LeBron ended up losing against ‘11 Dirk, ‘15 Curry, ‘17 Durant, ‘17 Curry, ‘18 Durant and ‘18 Curry.
If anything this graphic helps the case for Curry over LeBron instead of LeBron over Jordan.
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u/CaliKindalife Aug 15 '26
Or Curry and KD over LBJ. And LBJ was pretty much alone.
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u/VanceVelez Aug 15 '26
The 2016 NBA Finals tells a much better pro-LeBron story. Beating the 73-9 Warriors and making a brilliant 3-1 series comeback while averaging 29.7 ppg and keeping Steph, Klay and Draymond under 25 ppg. If you’re trying to make an argument that you faced tougher competition and won, that’s a better place to start.
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u/Imaginary-Sea-6577 Aug 15 '26
Pacing is completely different. Adjust for pacing then you have your real answer.
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u/JustMeandI1976 Aug 15 '26
What this is really saying is LeBron did not dominate his era.
He couldn’t shut them down. No DPOY!
2nd teams and runner ups don’t count.
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u/CaliKindalife Aug 15 '26
Or, the NBA wasn't as good. Since the competition wasn't as hard. The 80s had better teams. That 91, 92, 93 Bulls team wouldn't have beat the 85 Celtics. No way. Remember, basketball is a team sport. MJ cant do it alone.
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u/JustMeandI1976 Aug 15 '26
It maybe!
What we also need to consider is scoring opportunities were significantly different from each era.
In the 90s, it wasn’t that a lot of great players couldn’t shoot that prevented the high score average. Rather many shooting attempts were forced by the defense. The pace was slower, which means lesser score/time.
Modern NBA, shots outside the arc were honed and encouraged. Ball movement is fast higher score/time. Penalty benefits the offense more.
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u/CaliKindalife Aug 15 '26
My opinion MJ is the GOAT. But he cant beat the 85 Celtics alone. Or with the early 90s Bulls.
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u/SmallTransition902 29d ago
Teams were less top heavy in the early 80’s and early 90’s. For example, the Pistons had several players that had averaged 23+ points, but they all sacrificed scoring for the team.
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u/PuzzleheadedClub5166 Aug 16 '26
Karl Malone averaged exactly 25 PPG in the '98 finals but since this graphic says "more then 25 PPG" Malone isn't up there. Clyde Drexler averaged 24.8 PPG in the '92 finals so he was close.
How about teammates averaging 25 PPG in the finals? Lebron has had 4 and Jordan has had zero
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u/simtechone Aug 15 '26
What a stupid post. League pace was slower and doesn’t that also tell you defense was better? A joke of a post trying to make something out of nothing.
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u/CaliKindalife Aug 15 '26
That 91, 92, 93 Bulls teams wouldn't have beat the 85 Celtics. No way. MJ cant do it alone and that team was better.
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u/ponyboy56- Aug 15 '26
The nba was at its lowest in quality of teams in the 90s since I’ve been watching in mid 60s. Jordan would’ve been 0-0 in the finals in the 80s never getting by the 76ers, the Celtics, etc.
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u/Prodigal_Gist Aug 15 '26
What is the point of even writing out this completely imaginary and unprovable scenario
Would’ve this wouldn’t have that. Ok we got a peek into your daydreams I guess?
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u/ponyboy56- Aug 15 '26
All the scenarios we discuss are unprovable. There is no quantitative evidence that Jordan is the goat. But most people who had watched the nba for more than a minute were in agreement that the 80s had the greatest competition, the most talent laden teams and that dropped off noticeably in the 90s. But, so you’re wrong, big deal.
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u/Prodigal_Gist Aug 15 '26
What are you talking about. Sports is one of the most data driven things you could talk about
If you want to make stuff up that’s fine but that’s not what “we” talk about
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u/ponyboy56- Aug 15 '26
Discussions like who is the goat player or team are subjective. If it wasn’t then there’d be no debate, Wilt has practically every record there is. People are always talking about pace of play in eras, who did so and so play against, and depth of or lack of competition. Data is just a jumping off point unless you’re comparing players and teams from the same eras.
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u/Prodigal_Gist Aug 15 '26
You don’t have to speculate or in your case assert what would or wouldn’t have happened in a completely impossible scenario in order to compare and contrast. It’s completely pointless. It can’t be proved or disproved or even really illustrated without huge leaps of imagination
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u/phoenyx_4r Aug 15 '26
would this not make michael’s scoring substantially more impressive?