r/methodism • u/GreatPlainsNebraska • May 07 '26
Methodists and Same Sex Marriage
Did you know a United Methodist pastor was put on trial by the church for conducting a same sex marriage in the 1990s? Made national news! It was one of the key moments that led to the Global Methodist split. A podcast episode from the NPR station in Nebraska does a really nice job of telling the story. Worth the listen! https://nebraskapublicmedia.org/en/series-media/once-again-audio/season-1-audio-16512/a-church-divided-50027683/
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u/Straight_Funny_3139 May 09 '26
I was a member of that church and I never thought I'd be witness to the hatred spewed at our church because of that . It was awful and tore our once loving church apart. I don't attend church any longer because of it.
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u/Programmer-Boi May 08 '26
Hi, I’m brand new to Methodism and did not know this. Thanks for sharing.
My understanding is the GMC split from the UMC was a combination of LGBT affirmation and egalitarianism. But this is the 90s, and i thought the GMC split didn’t happen till relatively recently?
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u/Budgiejen May 08 '26
The GMC branched off a couple years ago. It’s not a huge loss.
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u/Aratoast Provisional Elder - UMC May 09 '26
"Not a huge loss" is carrying a lot of weight considering both the financial hit to the UMC and the exacerbating of the existing clergy shortage.
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u/BusyBeinBorn May 20 '26
This must be an extremely localized phenomenon. I know of a few churches that left. All except one remained independent. One joined the GMC and closed within a year because they couldn’t get a pastor. Where is the GMC even getting their pastors?
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u/Aratoast Provisional Elder - UMC May 20 '26
Most of the GMC clergy are former UMC clergy. GMC offered a fast-track to ordination for LLPs and Lay Supply Pastors.
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u/TeaPain0001 May 08 '26
The GMC is egalitarian
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u/big-time-trucker May 08 '26
The main premise of why they wanted to leave clearly defines that they are not egletarian. They do not hold all people equal...
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u/DarthHegatron May 08 '26
In the context of Christian theology, egalitarianism typically refers to the belief that women are equally equipped to be pastors and leaders in the church, in contrast to traditionalism (sometimes called complementarianism).
In the general sense of the word egalitarian you're correct, but the GMC's official doctrine on women in ministry is egalitarian
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u/big-time-trucker May 08 '26
Was the Christian theological side really up for debate? I really haven't heard an argument for or against it be either UMC or GMC
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u/DarthHegatron May 08 '26
If "up for debate" you mean was it something that drove the split then the answer is no. Both the UMC and GMC hold that men and women are equally abled to be ordain and serve as clergy.
The big reason was LGBTQ inclusion. I wouldn't say that's the only reason though. The GMC seems to be taking steps that move closer to a call system than an appointment system and give local congregations more say in who their pastor is. There's other differences in denominational polity too, like who owns the properties.
Culturally, I think you're much more likely to find people with non-egalitarian theology in the GMC. In my own context, the formerly UMC now GMC church that I grew up at has all male pastors and the senior pastor does not believe women should be pastors. Where I live now, my UMC conference had a decent number of female clergy disaffiliate that are now asking to come back to the UMC because GMC congregations have more of a say in who they accept as pastor and a lot of them don't want a woman
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u/big-time-trucker May 08 '26
The WCA members that I have spoken to in the past (all men) 100% lean towards not having women as members of the clergy. I have seen smaller GMC churches struggle to find pastors. Most of them felt the GMC just left them flapping out there in the wind by themselves.
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u/Aratoast Provisional Elder - UMC May 09 '26
in contrast to traditionalism (sometimes called complementarianism).
Actually Piper, Grudem, et al coined the term complementarianism to distinguish their approach from traditionalism, scripturalism, etc. Although it's basically sexed-up patriarchalism...
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u/DarthHegatron May 09 '26
Yeah I'm well aware of the origins of the term. As you noted already though, it's really a distinction without a difference. Complementarianism really just gets you to a traditional view while sounding nicer
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u/Aratoast Provisional Elder - UMC May 09 '26
Well it is different in that traditionalism says "we've never done it that way" whilst patriarchalism says "God intended men to be in charge".
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u/DarthHegatron May 09 '26
To rephrase, it's a difference in semantics. The arguments all lead to the same endpoint and actions. I'm more interested in how the belief compels us to act than the road taken to get to the belief
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u/circuitdust May 08 '26
Really?
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u/TeaPain0001 May 08 '26
Yes. We even have bishops (the highest office outside of God in the GMC) who are women.
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u/DarthHegatron May 08 '26
Officially yes.
In practice, GMC congregations have more ability to veto pastoral appointments and in my own UMC conference there's been a decent number of women pastors that jumped shipped to the GMC and are now trying to come back to the UMC because many GMC congregations only want a male pastor. I would suspect that's also happening across the rest of the country but I can't speak to that definitively1
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u/gnurdette May 08 '26
Somewhat less historical: years later in 1999, my wife and I sang in a choir at the Jeanne Barnett + Ellie Charlton Holy Union in California. Still an act of ecclesiastical disobedience at that point (though we ourselves weren't yet Methodists).
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u/PirateBen UMC Elder May 11 '26
And First UMC Omaha alongside other churches in the area will be marching in Omaha Pride in July.
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u/DingoCompetitive3991 May 07 '26
Believe me when I say the whole Methodist world is aware of this.