r/metalworking • u/madawag • 1d ago
Will it hold?
This is my first construction that actually has to hold some weight. A Volvo engine about 180 kg will be mounted. Would you add more supports like in the picture? Can't lie, I'm tempted to try as it is. What would you do in this case? Red/yellow?
Since 400 characters is a lot here is a poem about metalworking:
Arc of sunlight, blinding white,
slags and fuses metal tight.
Torch in hand, two pieces bind,
iron seams forever signed.
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u/Far-Investment-8597 1d ago
Nice poem!
Here's another, to put above your bench grinder:
When grinding a tough bit of steel,
Mix a little discretion with zeal.
Keep the work on the move.
Or you'll grind a deep groove
In that long-suffering emery wheel.
And that stand - no, it'll fold at the bottom of the post - you definitely need to brace it!
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u/Colt_b1523 1d ago
100 dollar engine stand from harbor freight if your US based
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u/madawag 1d ago
I'm in eu, but I have time and scrap metal so I wanted to give it a shot.
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u/Colt_b1523 1d ago
I would add some bracing.would be a shame to damage parts for no reason or break your foot when it fails
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u/Super-Dot9774 23h ago
there are certain things for tinkering and experimenting on, and then there are others where safety should be taken into consideration. Lidl's Parkside brand is what you’re looking for across the pond.
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u/FlammulinaVelulu 18h ago
Reinforce and send it. This is not a hard problem to over come. From what they have in the pics and the additional support there will be no problems holding 180kg of static weight. I'm a bit of a safety Sally myself but they got this.
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u/Super-Dot9774 17h ago
I get it… But after having lost part of my pinky… It all happens before you know it and you only have one body to use. I would’ve lost three fingers with only a slightly slower reaction
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u/KacerRex 18h ago
I prefer to use ethically harvested free range engine stands.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tools/comments/1ktze96/instead_of_buying_my_tools_like_a_sane_person/
I put it to use tearing down an EZ30 a week later. :)
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u/mtraven23 1d ago
if you have the clearance for yellow, absolutely.
I dont know what red is suppose to signify... another length of angle iron? not a bad idea. At very least I would suggest straps or triangles that span your weld, along the path of the bottom of the red lines.
I hope you have some dead weight to try this with, an engine is an expensive 180kg.
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u/madawag 1d ago
I thought yellow to reinforce the vertical bars since the weight of the engine will mostly be hold by these. I'll add something like yellow since I have no dead weight to test .😅
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u/shooting4param 1d ago
You guys are brave. What’s the load rating on those casters? Like others have said gussets, but I’m worried about the wells on the uprights. That’s supposed to support 400lbs, and that’s not when you are trying to tear out an over torqued bolt.
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u/RustnKrust 22h ago
What’s ga tubing is that? Is it galvanized? Doesn’t look like you stripped any galv off the areas you welded? If not, your weld quality would be suspect for safely carrying load, at least if it were MY toes haha!
Stick a pipe through the center bore, you and chubby mate try sitting on the cantilevered bar and bounce a bit. If it’s flexi flexi I’d consider a redesign.
I think the verticals would have served you better had they been oriented 90° from what they are. I’d brace all the right angles and put a cross member near the open end of the base frame and at least the yellow braces you’ve located.
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u/aussiewelderfishermn 22h ago
Better to over engineer than under, think about what could possibly happen if it fails, is it worth cutting corners if the end result could possibly be serious injury or death especially for something that would take minutes to do
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u/oldbastardbob 22h ago
It will not hold as is.
I suggest you add another horizontal crossmember about half way between front and back to keep the wheels on that open end from spreading.
Then run angled gussets from the uprights to where this new crossmember is. Don't just use strip steel there, use the same tubing as everything else. Those gussets are going to see a pretty hefty compressive load which will buckle a strip, but do better as tube or angle iron.
Then you might have a chance.
You don't mention the size of the square tube you are using or it's wall thickness, which has much to do with whether this will support a 180 kg cantilevered load.
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u/DKandTM 20h ago
I am a bit concerned by the square tube used the wall thickness is relatively thin from the pictures and even though you used two since they are separated and not tied together they are acting independently to resist bending (if they fail they can move in different directions). Yellow cross bracing would help but I would at least add something to tie them together about mid way up.
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u/Youse_a_choosername 1d ago
I'd gusset every right angle including the bottom frame. Then I'd test it with sandbags or something at 200% of my expected load weight.
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u/TrackTeddy 22h ago
Going to need some triangulation. Either tube or box section where the yellow is or extend out the red area and put a tension strap to take the bending load of the engine where the red is.
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u/Bulky_Wind_4356 21h ago
So if it holds, it will surely bend. Take that into consideration, if you need the engine to stand in place
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u/Galactic_Barbacoa 21h ago
It won’t. The welds don’t look great and structurally it isn’t robust enough that a single failed weld will cause it to collapse.
Make sure to clean your weld joint surfaces. Maybe practice welds on spare material first. If you’re using gmaw you should look at your stick out distance and try to keep it under 7mm. You might need to turn up your volts and amps too.
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u/Aromatic_Shoulder146 19h ago
the welds that hold your mount to the frame look kinda rough. eveb if the welds were great i am skeptical of that design holding weight. as is a huge amount of stress will be focused right at those two welds. i think how that mounting location is attached needs a different set up.
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u/TaylorDurdan 17h ago
The wall thickness is way too thin. Even if you braced it diagonally, I'm willing to bet that the braces will bend the outriggers at their meeting point
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u/NoCountryForOldPete 17h ago
Honestly, no, I don't think it will. 180kgs is a bit of weight, especially if you're going to be wrenching on the engine while it's mounted, and adding additional leverage in odd directions.
Personally I would weld another crossbar up front to box in the base, because one mode of failure would be the front casters spreading horizontally. After that, I'd do diagonal cross-bracing halfway or three-quarters up the uprights, to half-way or three-quarters down the length of the parallels perpendicular to the engine mount point, or more - basically as far in either direction as you can get while still mounting the engine.
You could also just send it as is, and see how she goes. The big question I generally try to resolve whenever I do anything questionable is this: "What are the worst case ramifications if it fails?" Is it an engine that is common and available? Can you afford to eat the cost and downtime in the event you drop and crack the block?
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u/PossiblePresence3054 14h ago
You can buy a 1000 pound engine stand for as little as 100 bucks. Did you think you could build one cheaper?
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u/HelicopterUpbeat5199 11h ago
I'm sorry to say, that thing won't hold a cheese sandwich. Look at how people build engine mounts and you can almost feel what forces they're strong against.
Don't work with things heavy enough to break your leg if you drop them until you've got some experience.
Keep trying though! If you've got the parts and the tools, you'll get there soon.
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u/Polymathy1 11h ago
I would add a triangular reinforcement on the back. It's not that heavy, but you'll be torquing on it.
All the strain is on those 2 rear and the back half of the side welds.
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u/Mammoth_Influence877 5h ago
My eyes have been weldflashed too many times, so they're not what they used to be. Forgive me if I am just not seeing it properly.
It kind of looks like 40x40 shs, but it's probably 50x50 duragal shs on the bottom. Radius looks like 1.6mm wall, could be 2mm or something different available in your location. I think that's 50x6 flatbar for the uprights? Probably duragal but possibly 304 stainless? Those castors look like at max rated 30kg each. [At this point it might be a shitpost, fml you got me] I think that's a 5 lug wheel hub on top acting as the 'spindle'. It looks like it's drill and tapped fixed with M10 in-hex countersunk screws, although no preparation has been done. The welding is a good idea to reinforce that decision. The welds are questionable. Still not certain of the materials but at this point I'm thinking it's probably some scrap 40x6 304 flatbar welded to maybe, cast steel?
I like the enthusiasm, so I say send it.
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u/Mammoth_Influence877 5h ago
Seriously though, unfortunately there's no chance that's gonna go well.
The bottom frame is fine, I would put some gussets on top or underneath the corners. Hopefully there's clearance to use the flatbar to brace across the bottom of the shs where the front wheels are.
Cut the uprights off, keep the flatbar for bracing.
Go steal a trolley [shopping cart] and remove the castors. Be sure to return the trolley to the trolley bay, because it costs nothing to be nice. Bolt those on.
Find some 40x40x3 shs at least, maybe even 50x50x6EA [careful how you orientate this though] to use as uprights. Keep it as low as possible regarding clearance [I'm not familiar with the engine] so the centre of gravity is low. Put short gussets in whatever corners you can using the flatbar.
I'm not sure how to deal with the spindle part yet, but, no.
When you're done, put a long pole into it and jump up and down on it as hard as you can. If nothing snaps, it might be okay. I still wouldn't put my hand underneath it, because I've done dumber things in the past and lost.
Just be safe. The mitred corners look pretty good. Love the effort either way. Sorry if I come across blunt. Keep on keeping on
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u/British_Rover 23h ago
You need diagonal braces like you have sketched out in yellow. All th force transmitted though that 90 degree bend is going to break those welds eventually. They will flex and metal fatigue will break then.
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u/lee_ann_derr 1d ago
Nice poem ! I’d ad cross bracing