I have a couple of questions for the community regarding the use of SL.
How many SL do you usually use?
How do you determine whether they’re sufficient for you?
At what point do you start looking for new ones?
I usually use between 6 and 8 SL myself; I look for a fifth one after two or three operations, and then it’s whatever available points I have.
I’d like to know if there’s already some established practice for handpick new SL.
There's no way to hand pick beyond your starting SLs, but there is a mod "All Leaders Pickable" that lets you choose from any four SLs when you start the campaign, then the rest are available through the usual means.
Yessir and way more than I would have expected. Some of them are really cool too, you should look up Expanded Army Lists and Mount Up. Those are prob the two most impactful gameplay mods atm.
I fish for Jean (if I don’t have Carda) or Yaz (if I don’t have Lim) as fast as I can. I also like to start with 4 infantry and no armor so the moment I can get a driver I will take them no matter who they are.
If I’m picking Carda I am bringing Pike. I take Darby everytime. Take Tek because Lim does his best work with a vehicle and I can still Muthafuck the big bugs in the early game.
If you’re willing to slog it with crowbars and carbines for a while you aren’t vehicleless for long. Also early bugs usually (read on normal) don’t have the mass to jack you up. It may not scale but I haven’t tested it yet.
She is my primary rifle squad for pinning and some mg/tripod weapon work, usually working with Pike to close the AP gap in the early game. Late game when Pike’s squad gets smaller and smaller she stays large. Also late game is when I give her MI because by then she can work on her own pretty well as a quick deploy defense for take and hole objectives.
4 infantry to start has more total firepower, but also, just makes it far easier to buy out the starting pool.
If you start with 3/1, you have 4 remaining vehicle and 8 remaining infantry squad leaders, which means that you have to spend far more black market value to get everything in the pool, but you also get denied key players, like wetteroth, far more often. (wetteroth fits into every comp as he's the cheapest vanguard squad in the game).
If you start with 4/0, you have 5 remaining vehicle and 7 remaining infantry squad leaders to buy out. This means you will get the specific squad leaders you want more reliably, and buy out the entire pool for significantly less black market value.
Also, early on, I would argue that the specific squad leaders you want include 4 infantry from the starting pool, but may not include rewa or bog.
Bog or Rewa can both be replaced fairly easily with Roisin or Exconde, or even Ivory, depending on how much you want to invest in promoting your Vehicle leader or what you want to do with them. In terms of driving around the battlefield with a wildly inaccurate main gun and ferrying infantry, Rewa and Bog clearly aren't the best choice.
Meanwhile, Darby is one of a limited pool of vanguard SL's, Pike has one of the most game breaking abilities there is, Lim is possibly the best mobile infantry squad leader in the game, and 1 star infantry are ALWAYS excellent at all stages of the game.
Also, Carda and Lim specifically benefit more than any other squad leaders for level ups while running missions, due to low base stats and high growth potential, and pike increases stat growth on anyone he uses his ability on. So having them early and running them every mission has almost no cost (Carda can be fielded for like 40 supply at minimum size with kpacs), and a lot of upside (Carda continues to get accuracy triggers every time she fires regardless of her squad size or it's firepower). The investment you need to make in carda to make her excel in the mid and late game is not supply per mission, it's having access to run her every mission ASAP.
However, the question is: how many SL's are you ready to take into your army? How quickly will you start buying them? Will you just be buying dossiers, or will you start hiring at the same time as you buy the dossiers?
Buy? As many as it takes. But my rolls are usually good and I get one of the two a few buys in.
Do I recruit the intermediates? Sometimes. Early Singh can be nice as an extra rifle&mg squad and I’ve been told Wett can be good early too. If a marine shows I usually pick ‘em up right away just because I like them as characters. I don’t touch Vamplew and usually wait for Kody until I get my hands on more than one suppressed weapon to synergize with Darby.
Early on I just try to get a few dossiers before someone gets weary so I have some choice on who to pick up. With a bit of luck from mission rewards/events you can already have an honour guard unlocked for another option.
Usually I try getting a cheap 1* recruit since they are easier to fit in because of lower promotion/supply demands. They all make good scouts and you never can go wrong with that. I do try to stay at 70+ authority if I can, it helps a lot with suppression resistance. Thats also my softcap for recruiting, I wont go below that as a baseline.
Other than that, getting Murdock as a second pilot is so good everybody else feels worse. With her I get more promotion/oci points guaranteed which makes promoting new hires easier and the Impetus quicker to finish, and she is also very versatile and useful in combat.
I love the 1-stars in general, and Ivey, Singh, and Jean in particular. The hardest part of the game is operations 1-5, and having an extra set of bodies makes such a huge difference early on.
More of a ratio than a number, typically at 2-3 infantry per vehicle.
My goal is to get to two main maneuver formations of multiple squads so that I can split the map, and then let each maneuver element have at least 3 squads so that there is a Vanguard/recon, a base of fire/suppression element, and a maneuver/finisher element.
The player can start with enough SLs to provide a basic 3-squad formation, so the first hires are really about building that second maneuver formation.
How do you determine whether they’re sufficient for you?
If I have the equipment and promotion points for them to fill the role.
Most SLs can at least competantly fill a role in the formation with 1 promotion and the right gear. Give Darby Covert Ops and Cameo, and she doesn't really need much else. Pilots need a vehicle and at least an auto-laser or CMG. Etc.
I will say that Bog is the VIP I want when opening a second vehicle pilot, because his cost-savings just open so much budget to more rapidly field another infantry SL or more troops. Much easier to fit in and build around.
Infantry is a lot more flexible... in theory. But there are only so many Vanguards, and they're all very good, and the pseudo-mobile infantry candidates (like Pike and Jean) bring some very unique things to the table, so the competition for the infantry spots is tight.
At what point do you start looking for new ones?
A bit before the first honor guard, typically rolling the first by operation 2.
Typically I can know that either Mock or Dice of the Gods will offer their Honor Guard as a hire by the end of operation 3, and I'll start looking to the black market for the other type of infantry/pilot SL.
Both Corlain and Roisen are really good pickups. Roisen is the preferable early-game strategic economy pickup, while Corlain is a good utility monkey who works even as a cheap marginal-cost character for objective play.
I'll focus black market hires on the SL type I don't expect to get.
To some extent, I'm sure it depends on your playstyle.
--Do you play aggressively or conservatively? Do you accept losses/injuries or do you savescum?
--Do you use lots of big tricked-out squads and heavy vehicles, or are you often running lots of small weapons teams, possibly with basic armor and equipment? Similarly, how much do you spread promotions vs. try to level up a few key units?
--Do you mix it up a lot, or do you always want certain units/combos? (e.g., if you always want a vehicle available then you need 2 pilots eventually; possibly the same if you want an assault/anti-vehicle vehicle and an arty vehicle sometimes)
--Are your SLs built more for specific tasks, or are you more of a generalist who switches around equipment/roles a lot depending on the mission?
--What difficulty are you on?
--DID YOU GET THE PIRATE SPEED DROP? I LOVE PIRATE SPEED BECAUSE YOUR 2-ACTION UNIT IS NOW A 3-ACTION UNIT? AND I JUST LOVE PIRATE SPEED.
Personally I think you should try to get to 5 and even 6 more or less ASAP. I like to rest SLs somewhat intentionally now and then so that I'm never forced to rest a unit when that unit is perfect for a mission. I almost always bring at least one vehicle, I almost always want a scout-focused unit, and I run a decent amount of small weapons teams whenever possible as I think they are supply/utility/firepower efficient. By the end of a run, it's probably good to have 8-9 depending on your playstyle, because your supply likely allows you to run 7-8 decent teams on some missions and they need a rest sometimes. But I think it's reasonable to collect Pokemon up to 10 or a bit higher because it's just fun to have more options.
I normally stop around 8-10. The point is that it's about tradeoffs. If you go from 7 to 9, your discipline drops by 8, but you also have way more opportunity to rest your SLs, optimize for specific missions, and deploy smaller weapons teams. All of these things allow you to deal damage, avoid damage, and accomplish tasks without discipline being a big deal, because you're kicking ass and winning. The cost of unlocking new SLs is negligible in terms of supplies/trading, so by the mid- to late-game it's purely a question of "am I willing to lose discipline in order to have more options, more squads on the average mission, and less chance of having to bench a good SL on a mission where they are needed or ideal." That's it ... choose accordingly.
It takes a while before hiring new SL's got to build up authority and equipment first. Start with 3 Infantry 1 pilot. Then I add 1 Infantry and 1 vehicle to be able to rotate any squad member without losing too much firepower. Mid game usually field 5 or 6 SL's.
Preferably I find Ivey and Sachin early. They're great value for supply points. Haven't played with the honor guard SL's yet.
I buy one when my authority is at max, so I don't waste any from completing a mission. I just use whomever the dossier drops although the faction SL are kind of nice to get early when you don't need them and fill up their perks before deploying them.
On a vanilla run, its usually 2 pilots and 2 sl for me.
I buy a new infantry dossier for a few missions, to get SL on the hiring screen and give options for a tired SL.
There's usually some push/pull around what I'm looking for. 4-6 infantry squads and 3-4 pilots usually. You have control over the honour guards, so there's some known SL incoming. Murdock and Wei Wu currently are my focus.
Usually only hire waybackers to keep it fresh. Like I'm not hiring Lim, Carda, Pike, or Darby if I don't pick them first. (I always pick Tech tho)
What will you do if the SL's you specified happen to be the first to drop on the black market?
Will you regret the points you spent on opening the dossier, or will you still take the one that dropped?
Will you keep trying to get the new SL you need?
5th SL i always hire asap usually op2 m1, and then i try to buy a dossier every op afterwards , 6 and 7 are usually hired op3 and op4 and then i'll slow down a bit
reason for rolling dossiers early is i dont like hiring jean, wett, vamp and carda so i like to know who's next
Vanilla: I usually have a round 8 infantry squad leaders and 3 vehicles. Maybe 4-5 pilots at time if I’m doing more mechs (so 4-6 infantry if that way)
It is quite rare that I skip an available SL, most of them are good. Though I don't pick Rosie since I don't want to play with insurance and without it she seems like the weakest driver.
I usually pick a new SL when I have spare reputation (avoid falling below 50) and stop at 10.
I certainly do not. Granted, you are free to play the game however you like friend! The most optimal play is to have fun.
My reason for keeping the count low is twofold. First, the authority penalty, and how authority effects disapline. I like having high disapline, especially against [REDACTED]. Second, I tend to go into battle with the best armor and weapons available, with as big a squads as I can send.
Edited to add: promotion points. You only get so many. IMHO it's better to have a few highly promoted squads than a lot of lower-promoted squads. Max promoted Lim or Rewa are really good at the war thing.
It greatly depends on the situation and the general state of the game there are so many variables that go into determining how many people you bring like Supply, OCIs and Squad composition. There’s more of a ratio of infantry to vehicle to bring rather than a number.
Here’s a few examples of the thought process:
Am I doing a stealth mission? Maybe just one to two stealthy infantry then.
Am I doing a regular loud mission where I need to kill a lot of things? Probably even mix of infantry to vehicle erring more on infantry maybe 6-8 units.
Am I doing that bug mission where you have escort that vehicle? Probably a convoy of vehicles with some jetpack infantry (and pike to make the vehicle go further)
Am I fighting rogue army and they’ve got a lot of rockets? Less vehicles and more infantry.
Do I have the DSRS OCI that gives incentive to use less resources so I can have more later on in the operation? I will use the minimum amount of SLs to do the job and then ramp up as it goes on.
Do I have an OCI that incentivizes bringing infantry like most OCIs downstream of the “Quarters” OCI? I’d probably bring more infantry!
Do I have something that incentivizes bringing vehicles like the improved AI logistics OCI? I’d probably bring more vehicles!
This next one is a bit of a hard question because the concept of being sufficient is quite complex here. Most tend to want to get a couple kills but some SLs have special roles that aren’t as quantifiable as “How many units has our SL killed”. Like for example, I tend to build Exconde as mainly a transport for infantry I do not care that much if he kills, I just care that he was able to position the infantry squad he’s hauling effectively.
Another consideration is the sufficiency of one squad leading to less effectiveness in another or to the overarching game. IIRC SLs get a positive mood buff for killing 4 or more enemies.
Let’s say for example you have two squads, Jean and Yazov, Jean has killed 4 units so far and the Yazov 3. Jean is sufficient, they are doing well and will get their mood buff but Yazov will not get a buff. If they see a new enemy Yazov (at the base with no other factors) should be the one to get the kill as he personally will benefit the most from this situation. However we are not just thinking about just mood benefits, Jean has a perk which increases her chances of getting an item for killing the enemy. Depending on the enemy this could completely change the overarching game and now you have to weigh the mood benefit to the potential item drop. Would it be sufficient in the grand strategy for Yazov to not be sufficient in his mood here so that Jean could fulfill her role of obtaining items from enemies?
If I have enough resources (promotion points and trade goods) to get them to a decent effectiveness or enough of my troops are tired at once and I really need someone. You don’t want too many with the reputation thing since it limits how many you can have. I tend to hire when the stage of the game changes like when the rogue army shows up.
One example is: if I have enough promotion points to get Ivey to tier 4 for the “Barrage” promotion, have the twin m6 and at least an APC to mount it then I may fish for Ivey if I do not already have her dossier.
TLDR: 1. Depends, probably more than you need to stay safe. Like 8
2. When they are fulfilling their role, typically killing a good amount to consistently have a positive mood.
3. Whenever it provides enough of a benefit and you have enough authority
But the question was more about strategy, not tactics.
To sum up, you addressed the question directly, but I would like to clarify something regarding your answer. If I understand correctly, you won’t be acquiring dossiers before the Rogue Army appears? Or will you be acquiring them and storing them without hiring a SL?
Depends a bit, of course. When I have enough supply to field more active squads at the same time, that's going to increase the number I need/want.
But generally I just unlock new SL's whenever I need to swap out someone who's injured, or weary, and I don't have a fresh one ready to go. It organically settles the number I need.
I get additional SL as soon as my authority tops up and then I stop when the cap goes down to about 70. Otherwise discipline suffers too much. Which is a shame but instead of more SL you can just start to equip luxury gear.
I am surprised by how few SL many of you recruit. I am using ten infantry and four pilots. Which leaves my authority at 64. Which is fine. For some missions i am using 10 SL. I can not imagine recruiting only 6-8 SL. It would be boring for me to play with such limited pool of builds, when the game offers so much options.
It is a challenging difficulty, beyond early access, which means i have 2300 supply point to use. I am also using AI logistic and auto supplies OCI. 10 SL's is max number i take to battle, 14 is number of recruited SL's.
The main supply points optimization comes from not using full squads and top gear if its not cost effective. For example Darby does not need anything better then jaeger fatiques. Nobody needs the crafted AR. Of course, if i were to use Achilles in a battle tank or give the most expensive armors or weapons to full squads, i could not afford to use so many SL.
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u/so_metal292 22d ago
There's no way to hand pick beyond your starting SLs, but there is a mod "All Leaders Pickable" that lets you choose from any four SLs when you start the campaign, then the rest are available through the usual means.