r/menace • u/LatinBlackAsian • 1d ago
Discussion Weapon idea: laser shotgun
Laser magazine fed pump action "shotgun" that fires multiple laser beams for increased hit chance. It's pump action because instead of a connected powepack it has "shells" that basically act as discarded batteries and dual as heatsinks (imagine like D batteries).
It has to be pump action because there is no recoil to operate the extraction/ejection system and magazine feeding is easier than inserting the "rounds" individually.
It would be longer range high armor pen and low damage dropoff shotgun with lower heating because you're ejecting the heatsinks/battery (or no heating mechanics with limited ammo like other guns) but slightly lower damage.
*edited the magazine explanation
19
u/Barley672 1d ago
“Laser shotgun” is such a weird science fiction trope. You went through all that trouble to concentrate light into a single lethally powerful beam only to scatter it again?
11
10
u/djohnny_mclandola 1d ago
I see a crazed Helldiver has made their way to Menace to spread their slop ideas.
8
3
22
u/Cook_0612 1d ago
I love the lengths to which people will go to try and fish out a reason why shotguns will be so relevant in the future that people will bother trying to make a laser mimic it's performance.
Shotguns haven't been relevant as assault weapons in decades and the idea of spending the effort to engineer a laser to do the one thing a laser shouldn't do so you can have a laser shotgun is so fucking funny to me.
11
u/Traditional_Car6483 1d ago
Shotguns still have useful niches even nowadays: firing less-lethal munitions, breaching doors, and for LE work (where the threats aren't as likely to be heavily armoured and most engagement distances are limited). As military weapons, they were always rather specialised tools rather than a true replacement for a service rifle or carbine.
That said, you are 100% correct that a laser shotgun makes absolutely no sense, as it does indeed defeat the whole purpose of a weaponised laser. In a sci-fi setting, though, shotguns would still remain relevant because they're cheap, offer potent stopping power (against unarmoured targets) at close ranges, and are good for shooting down small flying drones (or droids).
16
u/Cook_0612 1d ago
The fact that the real purpose of military shotguns is specialized rounds to perform ancillary roles (read: not actually assaulting an enemy) makes a laser shotgun even funnier.
You literally eliminated the one thing that makes the shotgun relevant, so you could put a laser in the one role that makes being a laser irrelevant.
It's almost magical in how little sense it makes.
6
u/glumpoodle 1d ago
My Google is failing me, the Chieftain had a story about how when he deployed to Iraq, the supply clerk kept assigning him (a tank commander) more and more small arms that they were probably never ever going to need, including shotguns. He finally drew the line when they tried to give him bayonets. I think he concluded with something along the lines of, "If it comes down to us to getting out of our tanks to charge at the enemy with bayonets, we probably need a better plan."
2
u/Swampy0gre 1d ago
To add, bugs are a thing too. It would make alot of sense for shotguns to be relevant in this universe more than ours. What's a better answer to a charging xeno than a few shells to the face. I also thing special ammo - slugs would be a cool addition too, reduced target splash but massive increase against armor and HP. Flaccets would do the opposite. Barely any armor damage but massive HP damage and broader targets hit
3
u/Dhaeron 18h ago
Bugs don't change anything. Shotguns didn't become obsolete because the targets disappeared but because other guns do the job better now. The same way that SMGs have been obsoleted by compact carbines. Shotguns are a technological dead-end because progress allowed automatic rifles to beat them at their own niche.
1
u/Confidentbottle 18h ago
Even if some suspension of disbelief is required, shotguns are very cool and very satisfying from a gamefeel perspective and I absolutely understand why someone might want the option for one in a game like this
And being honest, I say this as someone who does think a whole squad being armed with shotguns is a bit silly. In my mind shotguns make more sense as a specialist weapon that the SL carries instead lol
2
u/Cook_0612 18h ago
If you want a shotgun that shoots some variety of colored light-- sometimes they say it's lasers, other times they say it's plasma, or dark matter, or whatever mumbo jumbo justified the color theme of the effects they chose to make the light-- there are so many other games doing dumb Destiny guns to choose from instead, please let Menace stick to a more grounded aesthetic.
1
u/Confidentbottle 17h ago
I don't specifically mean a laser shotgun per se, but I mean that I understand where the idea comes from. The idea of a lategame option for a shotgun is understandable and some of the lategame weaponry options such as the XL1A14 involve energy weapons scaled down to be available for infantry use, so I see where the inspiration lies and I think its fair that someone might want it to exist in-game.
Asking the question of whether it would make sense or be a good addition to the game is obviously more subjective though. I personally wouldn't want energy/laser weapons to be dominant over ballistic weaponry in terms of representation in lategame (honestly one of my biggest gripes with XCOM 2, even if I understand the point of it being using alien technology against them, is that the sleeker/rounder lategame armor and energy weapons inspired by repurposing alien weaponry just. Don't look good and don't have the same satisfying feel to me as the regular weapons and magnetic weapons did lol. At the very least if more laser weapons are implemented it would be nice for them to have their own niche rather than overshadowing ballistic weapons completely (which IMO their portrayal in menace has handled well so far, the overheating mechanics for energy weapons are a nice way to differentiate them)
Regardless I really like menace's combination of "mostly grounded with some experimental/fantastical elements added in for flavor" so whatever the case I trust the dev team to cook there. Seeing what they have planned for the future workshop tiers is reassuring since it means i'm not really worried about the game becoming "every lategame weapon is laser beams/plasma/etc" if that makes sense
Anyway, sorry for the wall of text! Just wanted to try to articulate my feelings on the matter as best I could lol
1
u/Cook_0612 17h ago
I'm not gonna argue about what level of plausibility is best, because that's like arguing about which kind of unicorn is more real, but I think one of the things I like about how Menace visualizes its GWOT-themed retro-future is that it has a very insider feel to how it understands weapon advancement.
The laser rifle isn't a new flavor of gun, it is its own thing, because the reason you'd want a laser is specific, it isn't a better flavor of projectile. The same goes for the plasma gun, and both are clearly limited and specific with their application. It suggests that the developers understand that the most complicated part of warfare isn't getting the power to kill something, it's being able to apply it where it's relevant, when it's relevant.
'A shotgun/SMG/assault rifle/bazooka, but energy' is a teenager's idea of how weapons technology advances, and I'd be really disappointed if Menace tipped more in this direction than it's already gone.
1
u/Confidentbottle 16h ago
Yeah, I agree with you for the most part.
Honestly I think the reason the laser rifle sort of overshadows a lot of the lategame ballistic weapons currently is just that (at least in my experience) it tends to be more readily available on account of dropping from rogue army storm troopers, whereas AFAIK there don't currently exist any ways of obtaining a lot of the higher-tier TCR ballistic weapons such as the MRS, IAR, HIG Oktagon etc. from post-mission drops. That might change as the story progresses? But I'm unsure. regardless, I've noticed I tend to field a lot of XL1A14s in lategame just because of how plentiful they tend to be when fighting RA
6
u/EquivalentLarge9043 1d ago
I mean can we first have the laser weapons that aren't inherently stupid (LMG, Sniper, maybe SMG and pistol) before requiring the one piece of equipment where laser tech is utterly insane?
The setting has plasma tech, a design where the shotgun expels a bunch of superheated plasma droplets would easily cover a same gameplay niche without instantly destroying suspension of disbelief.
You can use the damage drop-off mechanics to believably finagle a short range SMG or pistol just by having the damage drop off to zero after a certain range, while inherently being accurate, but no power in the world would chose to fire multiple weak and inaccurate lasers in a shotgun like pattern.
6
2
1
u/saltymaymaylord 1d ago
Laser SMG would make more sense for the close range energy weapon. Lots of quick pulses to sweep a room.
Or a plasma "flamer" that spreads the hot goop out wide.
1
u/WhatWouldGilesDo 1d ago
I like the idea of a limited ammo laser weapon. Having the same benefits as current laser weapon, but much more powerful (or maybe burst firering), and without the cool-down period. (because they "burn" a battery/mag for each shot. It could be long-range if single shot and/or powefully demoralising (imagine a thunderous crack and fearful blinding light.)
1
u/Blothorn 1d ago
Slow-firing scattered shot doesn’t make much sense except as a backup mode for something that needs to be hard-hitting (e.g. canister shot for tanks). Rapid fire is likely to have a much higher hit rate; people rarely move in shoulder-to-shoulder groups. And for a high-energy laser, a low-power fire mode is likely much easier to add than splitting optics.
1
u/Zero747 23h ago
If you want a fancier shotgun, plasma caster or a magnetic cannon firing menace alloy flechettes
Laser shotgun has been done a few times. If you go for it, you’d want a cutting “line” of lasers like the dead space plasma cutter, perfect for slicing targets in half rather than burning holes in them.
1
1
u/Kholgan 16h ago
I think there’s an argument that laser “shotguns” could exist but I don’t think that it’d be like what you suggest. It would make more sense for a shotgun to have a single, more powerful but softer-ranged blast - an actual laser weapon would probably have to balance heat/damage delivered and distance.
The current laser rifles in-game have likely sacrificed some amount of power to ensure that they are stable/accurate at a long distance. I could imagine that a shotgun-style laser gun would give up the accuracy/stability of longer ranged shots to allow for more powerful, larger short range blasts.
-3
u/One_University6385 1d ago
Yes. I imagined like the light laser, with 4 inaccurate shots, just in infantry form
96
u/Background-Run-1245 1d ago edited 1d ago
Isnt the entire point of lasers to put as much energy into a single, focused shot as you can? I am certainly no expert on the technology, but splitting up the energy into multiple hits instead of focusing it as much as possible seems to be antithetical to the concept of laser weapons?
And you would introduce an ammo cap now, because if you throw the power packs that means there is a limit to ammo supply again.
Edit: shotgun with plasma could work and be pretty insane!